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my own thoughts to some comments Foxhead Send a noteboard - 17/10/2010 02:05:51 AM

It's exactly as people say here, they are cartoon villians: "I have you powerless in my grasp young Rand. You are handcuffed, blinded, gagged & shielded, so now I will tell you my master plan before I kill you!".
Name a Forsaken who has had the good guys as a direct captive for more than a couple of minutes. Or ANY WoT character, besides Rand, who has ever told people everything. In any event, they ARE realistic villains.

Be'lal. whose overwhelming greed for a sa'angreal (who you claim don't like that sort of thing) led him to pass the best opportunity in the series to kill rand. if he hadn't insisted on letting rand firstly take callandor to then take it from him and struck straight away without the whole laughable fighting scene then he would have had rand on a plate. but yeah he's the only one really


The Forsaken are smart enough to realize how little angreal matter anyway. None of them want to pull off the sort of massive feats that require the strongest sa'angreal anyway, since they want to rule the world, not destroy it. As they note in their reasons for avoiding the Great Holding, Rhuidean and the Tower storerooms, even a weak and relatively untrained channeler can kill a highly trained and immensely powerful one (See Moiraine vs. Bel'al). This is not some computer role-playing game where "experience" & increased ability & power give you more points of damage to both dish out per attack and absorb without dying. An angreal is merely a slight upgrade and offers you no real protection. If they had a chance, they'd certainly grab one, but it is not worth taking serious risks to aquire.

yes, but this is only true if you have the element of surprise. it's true of any battle that if you have the higher ground or are hitting from the flank/rear are attacking when the enemy is unready that numbers (strength) can be largely discounted. but i think they're all clever enough to know that if you can hold the greater strength then you should and that it should certainly not be something to sniff out. conversely a search for sa(angreal) should not be of greater importance than creating a power base or manipulating events etc.


Thoughts please....
Duh. Who said they are supposed to be smart and elite? Just a bunch of idiot readers. Verin comes right out and TELLS Egwene (though she was almost certainly speaking more to us) that they are chosen for their selfish pettiness. They are not the top villians and are merely lackeys of the real menace, which is the Dark One. The Dragon was not reborn to fight the Forsaken, but to face the Dark One. The Forsaken would be nothing without their Great Lord, and even IF LTT was in fact, a greatly superior individual, leader, warrior, general and channeler to Rand, he was not losing to the Forsaken, but to the Dark One. The Dark One was free in the War of the Shadow, while in the current time he is still partially restrained by LTT's seals. RJ himself dismissed the Forsaken who were not sealed away with the Dark One as all being killed off and not even worthy of having their fall told. There has never been any suggestion in the story that they could win or even survive without the Dark One, and even if that is not enough, the fact that these treacherous, self-serving and arrogant individuals all jump to obey his commands and fall to their knees for him should tell you their own opinions of their power relative to his.

That is another contributing factor - they have no real urgency to fight and defeat Rand, because they know better than anyone the power of the Dark One and don't give Rand a snowball's chance in hell against him. As far as they're concerned, it's just a matter of time until their side wins, and they're main priority is both surviving until that day and winning the Dark One's favor so that he will reward them. Their goal is to be there to reap the rewards, not win your approval as badass supervillains.


yes to most of this. i mean let's face it the reason the forsaken were a force at all during the AoL was because of the DO, he was basically a religion and our own past has shown what the fervour of religion can do. had they have been 13 powerful channellers they wouldn't have lasted long, but with millions of followers (whom they directed with the DO's will) they almost conquered the world

yes to the fact they think all they need to is survive till TG. when the Bore was opened a whole city was wasted. thousands of square miles of land became wasted (the blight). asmodean believes that as soon as the DO is free he might as well be dead.

however there ought to be some jostling for position to be named Nae'blis. there ought to be a compunction to prove to the DO and to each other that they are the biggest, cleverest nastiest piece of work out of the all of the forsaken. and yeah, some of them go for it, for all moghedien and asmodean are derided, their plans were the ballsiest of them all. asmo seeking the super sa'angreal and moghedien was going to control rand with the domination band (though honestly i think if she ever had have gotten it she would not dared have gotten close enough to use it)

aginor and balthamel went for it. be'lal was too dismissive of rand. lanfear was a joke. so was sammael (where was the sense of bluffing to graendal he had a truce with rand?). rahvin was a bit unfortunate, had rand not had such a strong emotional connection to the daughter of the woman he was trying to manipulate would rand have gone after him?
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my own thoughts to some comments - 17/10/2010 02:05:51 AM 530 Views
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