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Re: want to back that up with an actual quote from Egwene's mouth? urizen Send a noteboard - 07/10/2010 09:45:21 PM

Egwene specificly says he must be allowed to run free in order to fulfill prophecy. To say that he would be held against his will at this point is absurd.


Except that when she said that she was playing politics and was trying to show how bad Elaida is. Had Elaida been advocating Rand running free, Egwene would most likely have taken the position that Rand would have their "guidance". In most of Egwene's conversations with Siuan when the subject of Rand comes up, Egwene expresses need for Rand to be controlled and under her own guidance.


If Elaida had been okay with letting Rand run around she wouldn't have pulled down Suian and there wouldn't have been a rebellion in the first place. The characters are in the positions they are in because of their beliefs, not coincidence and mindless obstructionism.


I did not say it was so. I was merely trying to illustrate that Egwene was not expressing her own feelings on the matter but rather she expressed the Rand running free option to show how she was different and better compared to Elaida as Rand has pulled off some impressive feats by being "allowed" to run free. Of course she never mentions that Rand's sucsesses usually came about because he went against the "advice" of the Aes Sedai.

When she actually hung out with Rand her opinion usually were that Rand should obey the Aes Sedai(and herself). Not to mention in the latter books when every thought she has regaring Rand and his actions are some variation on how he is a moron and has to guided and controlled for his own good.



TGS
In The White Tower

"What did you intend to do with Rand al'Thor once you captured him?" Egwene said, ignoring the comment.

"I don't—"

"You're not answering me," Egwene said, nodding to the table of women, "but them. Have you explained yourself, Elaida? What were your plans? Or will you dodge this question just as you have the others I've asked?"

Elaida's face was turning red, but she calmed herself with some effort. "I would have kept him secure, and well shielded, here in the Tower until it was time for the Last Battle. That would have prevented him from causing the suffering and chaos he's created in many nations. It was worth the risk of angering him."

"'As the plow breaks the earth shall he break the lives of men, and all that was shall be consumed in the fire of his eyes,'" Egwene said. "'The trumpets of war shall sound at his footsteps, the ravens feed at his voice, and he shall wear a crown of swords.'"

Elaida frowned, taken aback.

"The Karaethon Cycle, Elaida," Egwene said. "When you had Rand locked away to be kept 'secure,' had he yet taken Illian? Had he yet worn what he was to name the Crown of Swords?"

"Well, no."

"And how did you expect him to fulfill the prophecies if he was hidden away in the White Tower?" Egwene said. "How was he to cause war, as the prophecies say he must? How was he to break the nations and bind them to him? How could he 'slay his people with the sword of peace' or 'bind the nine moons to serve him' if he was locked away? Do the prophecies say that he will be 'unfettered'? Do they not speak of the 'chaos of his passing?' How can anything pass at all if he is kept in chains?"

Pretty clear that she has no intention of trying to control what she knows cannot be controlled.


Yes,but to who is she saying it to. put into context it alot less selfless. She is actively trying to undermine Elaida and score political points with the Sitters at this point so telling Elaida that she's right is out of the question. Also, when Rand was doing these things that's so right and nessecray, how did Egwene feel about it? Her general opinon was that Rand was (and still is) an arrogant moron for not obeying Moiraine, the Wise Ones and herself.


She calls him out for being an idiot, but when has she ever done more than throw her arms up in exasperation? You make it sound like she's out there plotting to kidnap him and force him to her bidding.

One of RJs big themes in the series is miss-communication (or total lack of communication). Egwene and Rand being primary examples of people who should be in constant communication, and are not.

And it's not like Egwene is alone in her misconceptions of Rand's actions/thoughts/personality. How many times has Rand said things about Egwene ... here is a quote for you:

TGS
Tears from Steel

“Turn her over to the White Tower, you say?” he said, glancing back into the room. “Which White Tower? Would you entrust her to Elaida? Or did you mean the others? I doubt that Egwene would be pleased if I dropped one of the Forsaken in her lap. Egwene might just let Semirhage go and take me captive instead. Force me to kneel before the White Tower’s justice and gentle me just to give her another notch in her belt.”

Nynaeve frowned. “Rand! Egwene would never—”

“She’s Amyrlin,” he said, downing his cup of wine in one gulp. It was as putrid as he recalled. “Aes Sedai to the core. I’m just another pawn to her.”

I suppose that means Egwene would really do it, because Rand believes it... the worst she's ever done to him throughout the series is call him out for being rude or doing something she saw as stupid. She offered her help at every turn, even when his other friends were afraid to speak to him (Mat). There is zero indication that she would ever do anything other than give him her honest thoughts on how she sees his actions.


I'd rather not actually as it's real chore for me to slog through Egewene's PoV's but here is one from TGS p.151

Siuan just shook her head. "we've been offered forty-seven Asha'man to bond in restitution, of sorts, for the women al'Thor's men bonded. Hardly a fair trade, but the Hall decided to accept nonetheless."
"as well they should," Egwene said. "We shall have to deal with the Dragons foolishness at a later date. Perhaps his men acted without his direct orders, but Rand must take responibility. Men. Bonding women!"

Not quite the same opinion..

Reply to message
Chapter 1 released Deadsy - 01/10/2010 01:40:27 PM 5663 Views
For the record, it sucks waiting for you people to wake up and read this Deadsy - 01/10/2010 01:50:02 PM 1381 Views
Deadsy is like the Keebler Elves, but real newyorkersedai - 01/10/2010 04:38:15 PM 1253 Views
Not too much new to work with. Is "she" Egwene? Cads? Someone else? *NM* RandAllThor - 01/10/2010 02:01:12 PM 777 Views
Thanks for the heads up, by the way. *NM* RandAllThor - 01/10/2010 02:01:34 PM 768 Views
Egwene Deadsy - 01/10/2010 02:06:57 PM 1347 Views
Re: Egwene RandAllThor - 01/10/2010 02:15:24 PM 1394 Views
Well damn. Was that Buddha? Lordling - 01/10/2010 02:36:29 PM 1833 Views
This blaming Brandon for everything stuff is getting old. Deadsy - 01/10/2010 02:55:04 PM 1520 Views
I've never blamed BS for anything (expect fucking up Mat's character) Lordling - 01/10/2010 03:27:36 PM 1277 Views
I suppose it looks like I'm singling you out Deadsy - 01/10/2010 03:31:41 PM 1324 Views
I agree with you. *NM* Tom - 01/10/2010 10:30:49 PM 720 Views
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Care bears... care! *NM* Sidious - 02/10/2010 07:39:33 AM 981 Views
LMAO *NM* darius_sedai - 02/10/2010 09:34:23 PM 740 Views
WOW! It's beautyful Vidarfe - 01/10/2010 02:51:07 PM 1524 Views
i guess he's found a bit of peace at last Foxhead - 01/10/2010 02:53:39 PM 1312 Views
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"My father’s estates do produce lumber and fine woods, and ice peppers, and furs, and more besides." Deadsy - 01/10/2010 03:27:22 PM 1711 Views
It's the style. In the Randland context, the word "grows" is more appropriate... Shannow - 01/10/2010 03:31:22 PM 1355 Views
did you not read my reply title? That was a quote from The Shadow Rising, same exact context. *NM* Deadsy - 01/10/2010 03:32:23 PM 753 Views
Fine. So be it. It still feels wrong to me. *NM* Shannow - 01/10/2010 03:36:16 PM 648 Views
but it's all RJ's fault *NM* Deadsy - 01/10/2010 03:40:14 PM 590 Views
Maybe it's in the context of BS's sentences... Shannow - 01/10/2010 03:44:28 PM 1271 Views
Funny, I like BS more than RJ Sidious - 01/10/2010 03:46:53 PM 1264 Views
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I feel bad for you. I really do. LiterateDog - 01/10/2010 03:54:02 PM 1338 Views
Yes it does. But it is not conscious. It comes from 15 years of growing up reading Wot.. Shannow - 01/10/2010 03:55:39 PM 1211 Views
As if the rest of us haven't been reading for just as long. Japhy - 04/10/2010 05:00:32 PM 1122 Views
I've been reading the series sinc e EoTW hit bookshelves circa 1990 darius_sedai - 05/10/2010 11:10:08 PM 1087 Views
Have to disagree.. alanna aes sedai - 04/10/2010 09:06:53 PM 1239 Views
OMG... how cool is Rand? Sidious - 01/10/2010 03:28:05 PM 1515 Views
Yes, and what I love is the CERTAINTY. Shannow - 01/10/2010 03:35:38 PM 1427 Views
yeah exactly! newyorkersedai - 01/10/2010 04:37:01 PM 1478 Views
It sounds like Rand is finally growing up RugbyPlayingAshaman - 01/10/2010 03:46:54 PM 1412 Views
He has achieved enlightenment and knows more than everyone else, so he doesn't have to be insecure.. Shannow - 01/10/2010 03:52:23 PM 1203 Views
I don't agree - I think that what he is going to tell Egwene will be unpleasant for everyone. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 01/10/2010 04:07:19 PM 1298 Views
Why would that upset her? Shannow - 01/10/2010 04:21:29 PM 1352 Views
Because I think she was hoping to work with him to solve some of these problems RugbyPlayingAshaman - 01/10/2010 04:42:33 PM 1324 Views
I tend to agree DomA - 05/10/2010 01:41:22 AM 1187 Views
LTT didn't embrace the name Dragon Rurouni_Kenshin - 05/10/2010 02:57:59 AM 1318 Views
EOTW, prologue DomA - 05/10/2010 02:08:45 PM 1217 Views
Rand's actions on Dragonmount Team Aan'allein - 01/10/2010 05:19:20 PM 1390 Views
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Great one! fionwe1987 - 01/10/2010 05:31:45 PM 1275 Views
The Sickness Datakim - 01/10/2010 07:22:24 PM 1518 Views
thoughts Deadsy - 01/10/2010 07:28:38 PM 1528 Views
Re: thoughts Datakim - 01/10/2010 08:36:18 PM 1175 Views
Egwene Rurouni_Kenshin - 03/10/2010 02:57:38 AM 1453 Views
Re: Egwene urizen - 04/10/2010 09:44:00 AM 1154 Views
Nonsense Rurouni_Kenshin - 05/10/2010 03:52:31 AM 1183 Views
Re: Nonsense urizen - 05/10/2010 09:53:06 AM 1569 Views
seriously! Read what Egwene actually says sometime... darius_sedai - 06/10/2010 08:17:15 PM 1077 Views
Re: seriously! Read what Egwene actually says sometime... urizen - 06/10/2010 08:40:39 PM 910 Views
want to back that up with an actual quote from Egwene's mouth? darius_sedai - 06/10/2010 11:01:09 PM 1084 Views
Re: want to back that up with an actual quote from Egwene's mouth? urizen - 07/10/2010 09:45:21 PM 1173 Views
Yes, but her comment is far closer to the truth than his! darius_sedai - 07/10/2010 10:18:54 PM 1234 Views
I'd say urizen - 08/10/2010 08:30:17 PM 1103 Views
just like Egwene is 100% correct about AS being compelled darius_sedai - 08/10/2010 10:31:03 PM 1074 Views
Re: just like Egwene is 100% correct about AS being compelled urizen - 09/10/2010 11:46:54 AM 1131 Views
And Egwene was the only person to do things like this? Elayne made a huge public show darius_sedai - 09/10/2010 02:49:13 PM 1236 Views
Unlikely, I know, but... RandAllThor - 01/10/2010 07:42:17 PM 1284 Views
Fan...freakin...tastic. Had chills and watery eyes the whole time. This book is going to ROCK. *NM* Myrdhyn - 01/10/2010 08:18:20 PM 767 Views
I am so confused... Narg - 01/10/2010 09:45:32 PM 1463 Views
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Re: I am so confused... Datakim - 02/10/2010 01:01:47 AM 1160 Views
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I don't think... Etzel - 02/10/2010 05:44:05 PM 1630 Views
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seems about right ... standard 2nd book of a Trilogy type stuff darius_sedai - 06/10/2010 08:25:54 PM 1043 Views
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When Cameron was in Egypt land, let my Cameron go newyorkersedai - 02/10/2010 08:45:55 PM 1138 Views
Re: When Cameron was in Egypt land, let my Cameron go dread0 - 03/10/2010 12:44:44 AM 1144 Views
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dammit how am i supposed to read this without reading the prologue first? *NM* nigelgoboom - 03/10/2010 08:51:58 PM 749 Views
short but sweet like th apples *NM* nigelgoboom - 03/10/2010 09:13:09 PM 705 Views
Chapter 1 is not connected to the prologue. *NM* RandAllThor - 04/10/2010 05:21:19 PM 741 Views
The revival of the Green Man? Matrimony Cauthon - 03/10/2010 09:25:50 PM 1277 Views
Likes this theory! entyti - 04/10/2010 12:06:09 AM 1190 Views
Re: The revival of the Green Man? Datakim - 04/10/2010 01:05:06 AM 1246 Views
Re: The revival of the Green Man? DomA - 04/10/2010 11:49:54 PM 1211 Views
You assume the supply of Souls is finite Rurouni_Kenshin - 05/10/2010 02:49:28 AM 1095 Views
Yes DomA - 05/10/2010 02:08:10 PM 1264 Views
That doesn't make sense Rurouni_Kenshin - 06/10/2010 04:14:54 AM 1031 Views
you assume that a soul is tainted forever and not returned to a nutral state upon death. Apsalar Shadowdancer - 06/10/2010 06:43:11 AM 1144 Views
O... you assume I don't know my stuff DomA - 06/10/2010 02:35:06 PM 1184 Views
Re: O... you assume I don't know my stuff Datakim - 06/10/2010 06:38:49 PM 1038 Views
Re: O... you assume I don't know my stuff DomA - 06/10/2010 10:20:35 PM 1206 Views
Did you ever read the Ender series of books? Matrimony Cauthon - 05/10/2010 09:55:11 PM 1119 Views
OMG That is so cool! aragornital - 04/10/2010 04:22:21 PM 1281 Views
Re: OMG That is so cool! saangrealsmoker - 31/10/2010 07:13:11 PM 1005 Views
Deadsy, you always are bringing me the good s**t...Thanks! *NM* lodlom - 05/10/2010 01:37:48 PM 1108 Views
ARGH! Spoilers! Spoilers! MINE EYES!!!! Two Wongs - 14/10/2010 08:52:53 AM 1172 Views
Or at least not click the threads CLEARLY designated as being about ToM. Joel - 24/10/2010 02:10:13 PM 1167 Views
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