I think she's not a Blue because there's already an Ajah for her particular "cause. "
Joel Send a noteboard - 01/10/2010 05:13:53 AM
So I've been thinking a lot about Elaida recently, among other Reds, and have come to the conclusion that she doesn't make sense as a Red.
She doesn't have much in the way of motivation, but what little she has would, in my opinion, push a young woman to become a Gray or a Blue. She has the Foretelling, like a strong, famous Blue (Gitara Moroso) and she likely would have studied with the older Aes Sedai as an Accepted to better understand her Talent. During that training, Gitara likely would have set hooks into Elaida's mind and thoughts about joining the Blue ajah.
Elaida herself fortold that the Royal House of Andor would be the key to winning Tarmon Gaidon, and we know that Blues and Grays are the most commonly politically oriented Aes Sedai.
She doesn't have much in the way of motivation, but what little she has would, in my opinion, push a young woman to become a Gray or a Blue. She has the Foretelling, like a strong, famous Blue (Gitara Moroso) and she likely would have studied with the older Aes Sedai as an Accepted to better understand her Talent. During that training, Gitara likely would have set hooks into Elaida's mind and thoughts about joining the Blue ajah.
Elaida herself fortold that the Royal House of Andor would be the key to winning Tarmon Gaidon, and we know that Blues and Grays are the most commonly politically oriented Aes Sedai.
Right, but the politics is a means to end here rather than a goal in itself, though Elaida does seem to have a penchant for politics in HERself.
Now, if one took her foretelling as her reason for joining an Ajah, the Green would make more sense because the Greens are actively looking toward the Last Battle. Their purpose is to be ready to fight the LB, and someone who had a foretelling regarding the LB could be an incredible asset to the Greens, especially if she had more foretellings.
That actually WOULD make a lot more sense. A LOT more. Perhaps Randland would be a very different place had Elaida recognized that her cause was properly theirs, not the Reds. She couldn't see that, took the conventional (especially among Aes Sedai) view that all male channelers were a blight on the world and the only thing that makes the Dragon Reborn different is he's a USEFUL blight so long as he's needed to win the Last Battle. She explains her rationale for us, far better than I could, because it's kinda twisted in the first place. It's hard to see how to get from "the Dragon Reborn must save the world at Tarmon Gaidon" to "all male channelers must die" but she made the trip, somehow, and it broke her.
The Red Ajah's purpose is to preserve the World, protecting it from the destruction mad channelers would wreak. But Elaida hasn't done that, at all as far as we can see. As a young sister, she might have been part of the vileness, when roving bands of Reds Gentled men on sight, but for the last 20 years of plot time, she's been the advisor to Morgase.
Which is another connection to Gitara Moroso who went from being the Blue Keeper to being Aes Sedai advisor to the Queen of Andor before Morgase.
Which is another connection to Gitara Moroso who went from being the Blue Keeper to being Aes Sedai advisor to the Queen of Andor before Morgase.
Right, but it's coincidental one; Elaida went to Andor because of her Foretelling, which she long kept to herself in typical Elaida fashion, indicated that was more critical to the worlds salvation than just joining the already large (among Ajahs) ranks of those roving the world gentling men.
Is there some conversation I'm forgetting? Did Elaida think about why she chose to be a Red and I have just buried it out of sight and mind? Was it a machination of Galina's that pulled Elaida into the Red camp?
Or, was Elaida as a Red just a plot contrivance? Was she set up to be a foil to the Blue Ajah as a whole, but Gitara and Moiraine in particular? She really is a foolish version of Gitara, while she also mirrors Moiraine in many ways.
Thoughts?
Or, was Elaida as a Red just a plot contrivance? Was she set up to be a foil to the Blue Ajah as a whole, but Gitara and Moiraine in particular? She really is a foolish version of Gitara, while she also mirrors Moiraine in many ways.
Thoughts?
She's both. She definitely serves the invaluable literary purposes you describe (though since we've known Elaida longer it might be more accurate to say Gitara is the flip side of HER. ) But if her actions and personality aren't plausible then whatever other literary purposes she serves are moot. I think she's credible, but I also think she serves a much greater literary purpose. It's true of a lot of characters, but more than any of the others she and Pedron Niall have always illustrated the folly of generally wise, strong and very capable characters, dedicated to the cause of right, who become tools of evil because they think they're SO capable and everyone else SO stupid and/or evil that they have to single-handedly save the world. THEY see everything perfectly, but everyone else is a deluded fool who'll screw up even the simplest tasks they're given, and can thus be given none. THEY are bastions of moral purity, but everyone else is a selfish SOB who'll betray them the moment they have any power, and thus can be allowed none. Of course, that very attitude is the Achilles heel of what would otherwise be the Lights greatest champions (and that's certainly how they see themselves. ) Elaida joining the Red rather than the Green is just another illustration of that, albeit the one that's continuous throughout her presence in the series. And in the end, she must've envied Pedron Nialls fate.
Stuff like this is what makes TWoT more than escapist fantasy.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
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Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 01/10/2010 at 05:15:08 AM
Elaida's ajah
29/09/2010 11:39:53 PM
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Re: Elaida's ajah
30/09/2010 01:00:32 AM
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What has she done that shows she hates men?
30/09/2010 01:03:52 AM
- 1113 Views
I don't think she hates all men
30/09/2010 04:39:00 AM
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Thanks for the confirmation about the vileness.
30/09/2010 04:49:50 AM
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Elaida's more like a Slytherin. I can't really think of any causes she has
30/09/2010 06:20:04 AM
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actually there's a bit where suian thinks that elaida's hated her since she beat her to
30/09/2010 08:59:01 AM
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I probably need to re-read
30/09/2010 01:09:55 AM
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Hehe... I need to reread too.
30/09/2010 01:13:05 AM
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I wonder if RJ ever planned on Thom getting revenge
30/09/2010 01:20:35 AM
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I have a secret fantasy/hope...
30/09/2010 01:26:07 AM
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I think that might happen anyway
30/09/2010 01:36:26 AM
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She thinks those that channel are unclean and have rejected the light IIRC.
30/09/2010 08:28:43 AM
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But she might not always have been like that
01/10/2010 03:44:57 PM
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seems to me that she would have been like this early on since she participated in the
01/10/2010 09:58:09 PM
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I always thought of it as a fall-back ajah
30/09/2010 05:32:19 AM
- 979 Views
Funny, I always considered the Bluye as the fall-back Ajah.
30/09/2010 06:35:18 PM
- 890 Views
see, and I've always seen the Greens as a the fall-back Ajah
30/09/2010 08:09:03 PM
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At least I guess we can all agree that the Yellow aren't a fall-back Ajah *NM*
01/10/2010 06:44:06 AM
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Thats because Yellows are superior *NM*
01/10/2010 03:42:45 PM
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Totally superior! 3000 years using 1 weave to heal the upper crust of society
02/10/2010 02:12:28 PM
- 675 Views
Elaida is pretty clearly a Red Ajah-link to great article that summarizes the point better included
30/09/2010 03:22:14 PM
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I think she's not a Blue because there's already an Ajah for her particular "cause. "
01/10/2010 05:13:53 AM
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