I don't make much of that, as Norine is even more a decorative player than Danelle, who at least played a central small role in the Tower Coup, being the one who disguised the records so that the mercenaries hired passed for masons...

It's one of two things, really: either Danelle got involved, and this is really weird from someone like her, and suspicious, even more because after this she let herself get sidetracked, without even appearing to notice, Alviarin pointed out. That's really weird behaviour.

The second thing is that Elaida's group may have involved Danelle, because they needed someone to falsify the hirings for the library repairs. Then it's just a bit weird that Alviarin mentions that Danelle let herself be sidetracked without even appearing to notice. That really shouldn't have surprised Alviarin, if Danelle merely had accepted to falsify records for the conspiracy but had very little interest in it. The fact she was involved at first (she was even there to take out Siuan) speaks of a greater involvement, and makes odd that she distanced herself shortly after.

I think Alviarin's "without appearing to notice" might actually be explained by "Danelle made efforts at discretion so the fact she stepped out of the inner circle shortly after the Tower Coup didn't attract notice". She faded to the background, made no effort to stay involved, and vanished silently when they stopped thinking of her and involving her at all.



This is more than that, at least what I meant by this is evidence that Norine is no "newbie" like Danelle is. Alviarin wouldn't think Norine believes she should have been Keeper in her place if it's unreasonable that Norine could have been. She would rather have called her a fool. It means Norine is either quite strong or in some way prominent in the White Ajah, as Alviarin herself seems to be. And all I was getting at with this is that, friendless or no, Norine isn't someone very easy to replace. Even friendless, the Whites are reclusive, and so few, they're not really sisters whose absence from their quarter wouldn't attract some notice by the other Whites. This would greatly have limited Mesaana's comings and goings. I also don't think she would have thought hiding among Alviarin's Ajah, and picking a sister who dislikes Alviarin and that Alviarin dislikes (in other word, a sister who isn't beneath Alviarin's notice at all... more like someone she sees as a rival) was a wise choice either.

As for Norine being friendless, I get the impression she isn't the Danelle sort of loner. She seems more the sort of snooty bitch nobody likes, even in White Ajah. At least, that's the sort of impression her bickering and tone in the corridor, and her obvious dislike of Alviarin, left me.

I would also point out that her dislike/jealousy of Alviarin was mentionned first before Alviarin and Mesaana "clashed", so it's a bit odd when people bring this up as evidence that Norine is Mesaana, after the clash. Their dislike existed, and the way she looks at Alviarin is even explained: she thought she ought to have been Keeper, and she dislikes Alviarin. It follows Norine is most displeased that Alviarin messed it all up, and that she is prominent among the Whites who make her anger and disapproval felt to Alviarin.

Personally, I think that's the main reason Jordan put Norine in ACOS and made Alviarin mention the Keeper thing. He wanted a White who didn't like Alviarin, and would openly show her resent and anger to her later on. That's the two occasions in which Norine was mentionnd. She appeared a third time, guarding Egwene's cell. If she rivals for influence with Alviarin, that's not really surprising she saw her downfall as an opportunity to step up. I don't really imagine Mesaana taking up guard duty for hours on Egwene's cell... with two other Whites. She has the BA (one of which was present in that scene, actually) to keep an eye on Egwene.




I said the same, except my impression of the Whites is that a lot of them love to bicker and argue and display their great logic to one another, and bitch about the other's logic and spot the flaws. Reclusive yes, but mostly in the sense that most of them stick to their Ajah quarters. Most Browns are a lot friendlier than this. They enjoy lecturing, and talking about their stuff. They're not the sociable type, mostly, but if you get them started on their stuff...

The Whites appear, for the most part, to think extremely highly of their intelligence and many of them are cold, superior, distant, cutting but like to have the last word in arguments, and not the kind to hide their opinion (even if it's not asked for). We haven't seen many nice or friendly Whites. Seaine, Daigian...



Yes. It's forcibly more difficult to hide within a small group which tend to stick to themselves, especially that Norine is no newcomer but somewhat "prominent", perhaps as much as Alviarin seems to be.

Hiding as a young Brown loner in the masses of the Brown Ajah is obviously much easier to pull off.



Yeah, I think. It's also a question of mobility. Any AS disguise was restraining if it's the only one she uses. After she split the Ajahs, whoever she is Mesaana would have restrained herself to the Ajah Quarters, and walking around in corridors, normally with other sisters from her Ajah (which contacts Mesaana would prefer to avoid if she could). That's another problem with her being Norine. After the split, Norine like everybody would spend most of her time either in the quarters, alone, or else in the company of other Whites to walk around. That's extremely confining... and Norine is known, and closer and more frequent contacts with the other Whites isn't a good. It multiplies the chances she makes a bad slip (and she can't afford for someone to mention it to Alviarin.. and if it's known among Whites Alviarin and Norine dislike each other, such gossip might well happen ... "eh Alviarin.. Norine was such a fool, she spoke as if she never read essay 2 from William of M. today... Novice stuff! " Etc.).

As Danelle, however, Mesaana could play on her asocial behaviour and vagueness to avoid most contact, and simply vanish to her library quarters and when alone adopt any other disguise to walk around and spy. She could be a servant to spin inverted listening weaves in an Ajah quarters or on a corridor conversation one day ( think she spotted the AH meeting in corners under a servant's disguise - they would have been a bit more cautious if other sisters were anywhere around them.. but not novices or servants who are pretty invisible to sisters), or a novice in attendance or etc. Whatever she needed to be where she wished to be. She could even briefly invent a sister to walk openly in a corridor. No one knows everyone, and as long as she kept that brief enough, no one would notice more than a sister they don't know.

As for her skills at Illusion, Alviarin's judgement doesn't mean much. When she met her, Mesaana always used an extremely basic screen of light and shadow, something Alviarin had the skills to pull off. Mesaana obviously did that because she didn't want Alviarin to even suspect she was capable of mimicking down to the last detail someone else - looks, voice and all. Alviarin wrongly concluded this meant Mesaana's real appearance was known to her, that she had seen this woman in the Tower as a sister.

This pretty much confirms Alviarin is wrong to believe Mesaana has disguised herself (mundanely, ie: under her real appearance.. .Alviarin also doesn't know Mesaana has not the ageless look, apparently, though Graendal and Lanfear and Be'lal should have given her a clue and make her doubt Mesaana could portray any sister, really...) as a sister long away from the Tower that no one remembers. She's replaced someone, and don't want Alviarin to know she can do that. This also probably confirms that Mesaana lives in that person's quarters, which would make it dangerous for her if Alviarin puzzled out her disguise and got herself captured and her oaths removed. She could have lead her captors straight to Mesaana.