Re: KOD and TOM show where TGS could have been 'fixed'
DomA Send a noteboard - 26/09/2010 09:35:41 PM
KOD in that it progressed the storyline at a good pace without chapters out of order, TOM in that TOR were willing to give an extra 100 odd pages to 'play with'.
With a handful of extra chapters (which as noted TOM shows could have been used), TGS could have 'straightened' the timeline and had Perrin start moving out of Malden and Galad captured as a cliffhanger ending as part of TGS, instead of it being part of the TOM prologue.
With a handful of extra chapters (which as noted TOM shows could have been used), TGS could have 'straightened' the timeline and had Perrin start moving out of Malden and Galad captured as a cliffhanger ending as part of TGS, instead of it being part of the TOM prologue.
Yes, probably it would have been better to offer all this in the epilogue and not the prologue, though here's what I think RJ had planned:
- Masema gets killed by Faile after the battle of Malden. He had visions/dreams that told him to kill Perrin and got Aram to do the deed. Dreams? Hmmm... Forsaken? Hmmm...
A bit later in the prologue:
- Tylee 20 days after Malden gets attacked near Ebou Dar.
- Perrin, 2 weeks after Malden, has a dream that ends... with a big evil laughter.. connecting this to Masema's dreams. The point that a Forsaken is involved near Perrin is now solidly set. The "useless" TGS scenes don't appear: Perrin was already aware of the Travelling issue, and in KOD he didn't wait at Malden, it's Tylee who remained behind to deal with the Shaido. That no longer belongs much to TGS... so this is moved completely to TOM. No Perrin in TGS.
- Rand's scene, around the same timeline, serves to show us how he stands in the timeline with Perrin, Tylee and Tuon. His story line then jumps a few weeks ahead.
- Mat reappears two weeks after Malden too, and meets Verin soon. This is either in the prologue, or his first or second chapter in the book. He doesn't have a "side adventure", which felt like filler (so did the departure of the AS... only to get back to him early in TOM. What was the point of that, really?).
As this doesn't really belong in TGS, this gets moved to TOM, where Verin's visit serves to tell us this happens before she went to Tar Valon, and.. exciting surprise, there was more to the reveal of the BA and her bringing down the BA.
- Tuon reappears two weeks after Malden. Her scene is late in the prologue, and completes the Tylee first scene and the Rand prologue scene.
I don't think Tor limited the pages for TGS. What more likely happened is that Brandon wrote by POV clusters, and he wasn't done with clusters 3,4,5 when the decision to publish the book in three parts was made.
A lot of the minor POVs that serve to enrich/complete the main clusters (like Rand's, Egwene's) were stacked in the 5th, "misc" cluster. None of that was written at the time.
Brandon would have had to have time to step back a bit, re analyze the book as newly structured, dig into RJ's notes and sketches to spot the secondary scenes he should put in TGS and where, and to write them up. It seems he rather had time only to polish up the Rand-Egwene chapters, to structure them and to come up with new material for Perrin and Mat so they had a few chapters in the book.
I think he had to postpone the first Mat and Perrin scenes as planned by Jordan and come up with something else, because typically the Jordan first scenes kick things in motion and generally with a twist, and he had no place in TGS to deal with that - he would have to abandon the new stuff abruptly after a few chapters, which wouldn't make much sense. Perrin's dream does that. Mat meeting Verin could have done that. Instead, Brandon invented an adventure for Mat, which he could end with him going to Caemlyn, his original first episode. It's very open ended, but the Hinderstap episode had a kind of self-contained beginning, middle and conclusion.. and Verin's letter that was probably the kick off chapter for him became a kind of cliffhanger.
With Perrin he was far less succesful, and for the most part rehashed unecessary things (and created continuty errors). Perrin's scenes in TGS merely brings him up to the timeline of the Galad scene in the prologue, adding nothing new. Masema's scenes aside, nothing new happened, and it really seems that Jordan intended to skip the first weeks after Malden and reunite us with Perrin, now in synch with Galad, two weeks later, with the prologue dream scene that kicks things off: Perrin has a Forsaken haunting his dreams. I also notice Perrin in this scene is going back , as if the minor character development in TGS on this front never happened.
Incidentally, that left only Rand a bit ahead of everyone else in AMOL. Egwene, Mat, Perrin and Elayne would all have been more or less synched, which makes sense because there was a lot more to happen to Rand mid-way and if Jordan didn't go a bit ahead with him, he would have been stuck with a lot of Rand in the middle-book. As his story line stays disconnected from all the others (but Tuon's) until DM at least, this wasn't a problem.
Evacuating Perrin and Mat totally from TGS (where they added nothing, beside giving a little bone to their fans to chew on... and not a very deeply satisfying one when you look at it... Verin's letter was the only big highlight of the whole thing...) would have left Brandon space and time to polish TGS off a bit more more, and to add secondary scenes from cluster 5 that, seemingly, will now appear in TOM, out of place in the chronology. More Graendal to flesh her out as the threat in Arad Doman, with the climax of her escape.. bringing back Alviarin and Mesaana and flesh out the BA hunt before the dual climax of the purge and the escape. Just a few extra scenes (or background tidbits in the existing scenes, even) with the BA hunters in the Tower (wrapping the Alviarin looks for them, and they are closing on Alviarin storyline), a few mentions of the Sitters working with the AH before the very flat reveal at the end. It would have made TGS quite better IMO.
Jason's review... Looks like DomA was right (Review is now removed)
25/09/2010 05:40:18 AM
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Re: Jason's review (spoilerish thoughts from me, so BEWARE!). Looks like DomA was right
25/09/2010 06:00:46 AM
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Everyone seems to think Rand will talk to Egwene, but a male channeler also makes sense
25/09/2010 10:44:18 PM
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No Elayne hopefully, but again it looks like Egwene has everything fall in her lap
25/09/2010 08:10:54 AM
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No Elayne hopefully, but again it looks like Egwene has everything fall in her lap
25/09/2010 08:11:37 AM
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Perrin will probably gather the wolves...
25/09/2010 09:57:06 AM
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this "we like it because it's family" stuff is worrisome
25/09/2010 10:18:22 AM
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After his COT review, a less then gushing review isn't great
25/09/2010 11:42:39 AM
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But he is specifically trying to avoid being overly fanboyish BECAUSE of that CoT review. *NM*
27/09/2010 04:19:21 PM
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Damn, his COT review was infinitely more enthusiastic. What could it all mean? *NM*
25/09/2010 01:06:00 PM
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But his CoT review was also more enthusiastic than his KoD and TGS reviews *NM*
25/09/2010 01:07:15 PM
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Hmm, interesting point. Could a guilty conscience be setting in? *NM*
25/09/2010 01:26:30 PM
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I'm guessing Olver will sacrifice his Snakes and Foxes game his father made for him *NM*
25/09/2010 06:09:10 PM
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I haven't read the review but...
25/09/2010 07:22:48 PM
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That's not what I meant...
25/09/2010 08:25:42 PM
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It's odd, I didn't see any reference to Rand descending from DM in his review.
25/09/2010 08:39:33 PM
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It was the very last line...
25/09/2010 08:55:49 PM
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Re: It was the very last line...
25/09/2010 09:03:14 PM
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Re: It was the very last line...
25/09/2010 10:09:58 PM
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I blame JordanCon too.
26/09/2010 02:17:50 AM
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Regarding the WOTFAQ, Tam,
26/09/2010 10:04:40 PM
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Regarding Brandon's messing up of the timelines...
25/09/2010 11:34:06 PM
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To me it's two different things
26/09/2010 01:48:13 AM
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I remember the timeline was discussed much at TL prior to TGS release.
26/09/2010 03:04:24 AM
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Re: I remember the timeline was discussed much at TL prior to TGS release.
26/09/2010 08:31:00 PM
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KOD and TOM show where TGS could have been 'fixed'
26/09/2010 10:27:04 AM
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Re: KOD and TOM show where TGS could have been 'fixed'
26/09/2010 09:35:41 PM
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The review is back up...
27/09/2010 01:59:50 AM
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It wasn't quite identical... It was missing the line about Rand walking down from DM
27/09/2010 06:42:47 AM
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The line about Rand wasn't there when I read the review Saturday morning either. *NM*
27/09/2010 01:57:00 PM
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It was...
27/09/2010 04:22:24 PM
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I must have missed it then. It does fit with Tor's not releasing Chapter 1 early. *NM*
27/09/2010 05:06:36 PM
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What do you mean?
27/09/2010 11:33:15 PM
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I read somewhere that they'd release two different chapters this time. Could well be wrong though. *NM*
28/09/2010 02:15:28 AM
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Olver
27/09/2010 11:34:40 AM
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doubt he'll die. Jason's review is too much of a spoiler if he actually dies *NM*
27/09/2010 11:46:16 AM
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One problem with the idea of a Rand-Egwene meeting in Chapter 1 beyond timeline issues
27/09/2010 10:29:15 PM
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Not true...
28/09/2010 01:00:40 AM
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Good call. I assumed, and still do, that the two events are one in the same.
28/09/2010 01:10:13 AM
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Not true indeed... and....
28/09/2010 02:24:00 AM
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