Active Users:818 Time:02/04/2025 09:00:40 AM
Re: KOD and TOM show where TGS could have been 'fixed' DomA Send a noteboard - 26/09/2010 09:35:41 PM
KOD in that it progressed the storyline at a good pace without chapters out of order, TOM in that TOR were willing to give an extra 100 odd pages to 'play with'.

With a handful of extra chapters (which as noted TOM shows could have been used), TGS could have 'straightened' the timeline and had Perrin start moving out of Malden and Galad captured as a cliffhanger ending as part of TGS, instead of it being part of the TOM prologue.


Yes, probably it would have been better to offer all this in the epilogue and not the prologue, though here's what I think RJ had planned:

- Masema gets killed by Faile after the battle of Malden. He had visions/dreams that told him to kill Perrin and got Aram to do the deed. Dreams? Hmmm... Forsaken? Hmmm...

A bit later in the prologue:

- Tylee 20 days after Malden gets attacked near Ebou Dar.

- Perrin, 2 weeks after Malden, has a dream that ends... with a big evil laughter.. connecting this to Masema's dreams. The point that a Forsaken is involved near Perrin is now solidly set. The "useless" TGS scenes don't appear: Perrin was already aware of the Travelling issue, and in KOD he didn't wait at Malden, it's Tylee who remained behind to deal with the Shaido. That no longer belongs much to TGS... so this is moved completely to TOM. No Perrin in TGS.

- Rand's scene, around the same timeline, serves to show us how he stands in the timeline with Perrin, Tylee and Tuon. His story line then jumps a few weeks ahead.

- Mat reappears two weeks after Malden too, and meets Verin soon. This is either in the prologue, or his first or second chapter in the book. He doesn't have a "side adventure", which felt like filler (so did the departure of the AS... only to get back to him early in TOM. What was the point of that, really?).

As this doesn't really belong in TGS, this gets moved to TOM, where Verin's visit serves to tell us this happens before she went to Tar Valon, and.. exciting surprise, there was more to the reveal of the BA and her bringing down the BA.

- Tuon reappears two weeks after Malden. Her scene is late in the prologue, and completes the Tylee first scene and the Rand prologue scene.

I don't think Tor limited the pages for TGS. What more likely happened is that Brandon wrote by POV clusters, and he wasn't done with clusters 3,4,5 when the decision to publish the book in three parts was made.

A lot of the minor POVs that serve to enrich/complete the main clusters (like Rand's, Egwene's) were stacked in the 5th, "misc" cluster. None of that was written at the time.

Brandon would have had to have time to step back a bit, re analyze the book as newly structured, dig into RJ's notes and sketches to spot the secondary scenes he should put in TGS and where, and to write them up. It seems he rather had time only to polish up the Rand-Egwene chapters, to structure them and to come up with new material for Perrin and Mat so they had a few chapters in the book.

I think he had to postpone the first Mat and Perrin scenes as planned by Jordan and come up with something else, because typically the Jordan first scenes kick things in motion and generally with a twist, and he had no place in TGS to deal with that - he would have to abandon the new stuff abruptly after a few chapters, which wouldn't make much sense. Perrin's dream does that. Mat meeting Verin could have done that. Instead, Brandon invented an adventure for Mat, which he could end with him going to Caemlyn, his original first episode. It's very open ended, but the Hinderstap episode had a kind of self-contained beginning, middle and conclusion.. and Verin's letter that was probably the kick off chapter for him became a kind of cliffhanger.

With Perrin he was far less succesful, and for the most part rehashed unecessary things (and created continuty errors). Perrin's scenes in TGS merely brings him up to the timeline of the Galad scene in the prologue, adding nothing new. Masema's scenes aside, nothing new happened, and it really seems that Jordan intended to skip the first weeks after Malden and reunite us with Perrin, now in synch with Galad, two weeks later, with the prologue dream scene that kicks things off: Perrin has a Forsaken haunting his dreams. I also notice Perrin in this scene is going back , as if the minor character development in TGS on this front never happened.

Incidentally, that left only Rand a bit ahead of everyone else in AMOL. Egwene, Mat, Perrin and Elayne would all have been more or less synched, which makes sense because there was a lot more to happen to Rand mid-way and if Jordan didn't go a bit ahead with him, he would have been stuck with a lot of Rand in the middle-book. As his story line stays disconnected from all the others (but Tuon's) until DM at least, this wasn't a problem.

Evacuating Perrin and Mat totally from TGS (where they added nothing, beside giving a little bone to their fans to chew on... and not a very deeply satisfying one when you look at it... Verin's letter was the only big highlight of the whole thing...) would have left Brandon space and time to polish TGS off a bit more more, and to add secondary scenes from cluster 5 that, seemingly, will now appear in TOM, out of place in the chronology. More Graendal to flesh her out as the threat in Arad Doman, with the climax of her escape.. bringing back Alviarin and Mesaana and flesh out the BA hunt before the dual climax of the purge and the escape. Just a few extra scenes (or background tidbits in the existing scenes, even) with the BA hunters in the Tower (wrapping the Alviarin looks for them, and they are closing on Alviarin storyline), a few mentions of the Sitters working with the AH before the very flat reveal at the end. It would have made TGS quite better IMO.

Reply to message
Jason's review... Looks like DomA was right (Review is now removed) - 25/09/2010 05:40:18 AM 3512 Views
Re: Jason's review (spoilerish thoughts from me, so BEWARE!). Looks like DomA was right - 25/09/2010 06:00:46 AM 1326 Views
Pretty sure it's not Egwene... - 25/09/2010 07:07:00 AM 1270 Views
Oh well - I was wrong - 27/09/2010 03:56:59 PM 973 Views
Ituralde - 25/09/2010 06:29:26 AM 1106 Views
Read the ToM rules - 25/09/2010 07:44:22 AM 1019 Views
I officially hate reviews of WoT (in general) - 25/09/2010 08:10:43 AM 1098 Views
I take Jason's reviews with a pinch of salt - 25/09/2010 09:45:10 AM 1163 Views
Re: I take Jason's reviews with a pinch of salt - 25/09/2010 03:50:40 PM 1010 Views
Perrin will probably gather the wolves... - 25/09/2010 09:57:06 AM 1152 Views
I suppose Olver could be the one who takes off Mat's eye *NM* - 25/09/2010 10:01:17 AM 532 Views
The review is now gone. *NM* - 25/09/2010 04:10:59 PM 536 Views
Unfortunately, there's not much left for Elayne to do. - 25/09/2010 07:14:09 PM 1202 Views
I haven't read the review but... - 25/09/2010 07:22:48 PM 1593 Views
That's not what I meant... - 25/09/2010 08:25:42 PM 1186 Views
It's odd, I didn't see any reference to Rand descending from DM in his review. - 25/09/2010 08:39:33 PM 1017 Views
It was the very last line... - 25/09/2010 08:55:49 PM 1115 Views
Re: It was the very last line... - 25/09/2010 09:03:14 PM 1011 Views
Re: It was the very last line... - 25/09/2010 09:54:28 PM 996 Views
Re: It was the very last line... - 25/09/2010 10:09:58 PM 1250 Views
Mike quit being obsessed about 6 years ago (maybe longer?) - 25/09/2010 10:46:23 PM 1089 Views
Re: Mike quit being obsessed about 6 years ago (maybe longer?) - 26/09/2010 01:11:52 AM 1090 Views
I blame JordanCon too. - 26/09/2010 02:17:50 AM 1145 Views
Regarding the WOTFAQ, Tam, - 26/09/2010 10:04:40 PM 1063 Views
Re: Regarding the WOTFAQ, Tam, - 27/09/2010 07:20:11 AM 1045 Views
Re: Regarding the WOTFAQ, Tam, - 27/09/2010 11:03:35 AM 1055 Views
Re: I blame JordanCon too. - 27/09/2010 01:07:59 AM 1146 Views
Re: I blame JordanCon too. - 27/09/2010 07:35:04 AM 1089 Views
Re: That's not what I meant... - 25/09/2010 09:49:17 PM 1292 Views
Some thoughts on a potential meeting... - 26/09/2010 05:11:06 AM 1196 Views
Regarding Brandon's messing up of the timelines... - 25/09/2010 11:34:06 PM 1128 Views
To me it's two different things - 26/09/2010 01:48:13 AM 1238 Views
I agree - 26/09/2010 03:09:04 AM 1053 Views
My thought was not that they "dumbed it down" - 26/09/2010 03:50:36 AM 1114 Views
Re: My thought was not that they "dumbed it down" - 26/09/2010 11:42:12 PM 1333 Views
KOD and TOM show where TGS could have been 'fixed' - 26/09/2010 10:27:04 AM 1048 Views
Re: KOD and TOM show where TGS could have been 'fixed' - 26/09/2010 09:35:41 PM 1193 Views
Whose really to blame though? - 27/09/2010 03:43:30 AM 1033 Views
A suggestion? - 26/09/2010 11:39:08 AM 1172 Views
Is there a copy of the review somewhere? *NM* - 27/09/2010 01:40:22 AM 619 Views
The review is back up... - 27/09/2010 01:59:50 AM 1029 Views
It wasn't quite identical... It was missing the line about Rand walking down from DM - 27/09/2010 06:42:47 AM 1030 Views
The line about Rand wasn't there when I read the review Saturday morning either. *NM* - 27/09/2010 01:57:00 PM 471 Views
It was... - 27/09/2010 04:22:24 PM 885 Views
I must have missed it then. It does fit with Tor's not releasing Chapter 1 early. *NM* - 27/09/2010 05:06:36 PM 472 Views
What do you mean? - 27/09/2010 11:33:15 PM 941 Views
It was at the very bottom of the post and hard to find - 28/09/2010 12:44:56 AM 826 Views
Olver - 27/09/2010 11:34:40 AM 1183 Views
He's Demandred, natch. - 27/09/2010 03:54:09 PM 914 Views
Re: Olver - 27/09/2010 05:42:25 PM 970 Views
Re: Olver darkfriend? - 28/09/2010 12:02:11 AM 1042 Views
'Tis a shame. I love spoilers. - 27/09/2010 03:16:02 PM 1045 Views
One problem with the idea of a Rand-Egwene meeting in Chapter 1 beyond timeline issues - 27/09/2010 10:29:15 PM 961 Views
Not true... - 28/09/2010 01:00:40 AM 944 Views
Good call. I assumed, and still do, that the two events are one in the same. - 28/09/2010 01:10:13 AM 1026 Views
I don't think so... - 28/09/2010 01:47:40 AM 873 Views
Re: I don't think so... - 28/09/2010 02:00:59 AM 921 Views
Re: I don't think so... - 28/09/2010 03:07:08 AM 1768 Views
Not true indeed... and.... - 28/09/2010 02:24:00 AM 1175 Views
Mesaana and the Foretelling... - 28/09/2010 03:31:24 AM 902 Views
Re: Mesaana and the Foretelling... - 13/10/2010 01:32:12 AM 1247 Views

Reply to Message