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Re: Yeah, but... Sidious Send a noteboard - 25/09/2010 02:48:44 PM
They are actually living together! I really can't buy that any of the Forsaken would want to have one of their rivals around all the time. It's even implied that Aran'gar's presence is a bit annyoing for Graendal. And as it is seen, when the palace is actually attacked, they don't immediately form a link to defend themselves, but Graendal gets rid of Aran'gar.

Besides that, it still doesn't explain where Aran'gar & Delana (Delana's servant Miesa was probably killed off-screen) stayed for at least one week after her flight and before they moved into Graendal's lair. After all they left with all their stuff. Aran'gar must have had an idea where she could go.

This sharing of one power base also doesn't fit with RJ's description of the Forsaken, that any of them wanted their individual lair:
"They carved out power bases of their own choosing based on various criteria, one of which I will reveal. (Others are definitely RAFO!) For the most part, Ishamael excepted, they set out to create worldly power for themselves using the methods they favored in the Age of Legends. That is, Moghedien worked from the shadows using subversion, Sammael, Be'lal and Rahvin attempted to seize control of national governments and so on. The theory behind this was that once the Dark One broke free, those with the largest worldly power bases would be rewarded most."

Or his explanation why the Forsaken lost at the Cleansing: "By the by, Rand and his companions very likely would have been killed or captured if the Forsaken were not who they are, if they had been willing to form links and coordinate their attacks. But they suffer from a combination of arrogance toward the "ignorant peasants" of the current Age and distrust of one another. Forming a link is all very well, but who leads? Which of them would be willing to give up control over their own ability and put it completely under the control of another of them? Who are you willing to let get behind your back in a fight? Moghedien? Semirhage? I didn't think so."

It's also not clear why the DO or Moridin didn't give their "dagger" a new task, after Aran'gar failed with Egwene.

I think the scene would definitely make somewhat more sense - as it was also suggested before ToM - if Aran'gar and Graendal by chance just had a meeting in the palace at the time when Rand arrived there (like we saw e.g. Sammael meeting Graendal in her palace). Of course, that probably wouldn't really work with having Delana there to perform Compulsion instead of the master of Compulsion, Graendal, or the other parts of the convulted twist to assure that Graendal outsmarts Rand..


I also think it's odd mainly because one would expect Aran'gar to behave like Sammael i.e. pop-in every few days to speak to Graendal.

However, I would also propose a shift in Forsaken thinking since Sammael was killed, namely that the Forsaken are becoming acutely aware that none of them alone is up to the task of killing Rand. In fact, Graendal says these very words in the previous book. Mesaana even suggests rescuing Semirhage because of loyalty, and who ever thought a Forsaken would propose that?

It stands to reason that considering the other surviving Forsaken are in an alliance, that Graendal and Aran'gar should consider the same too. Not only are the Forsaken fighting Rand, they're fighting a whole host of his allies, as the Cleansing taught them to their great humility. There are only a handful of them left, and many of their most powerful are dead. Working together may actually be forced upon them.

Living together may not be the modus operandi of the Shadow, but there's really no reason why things can't change, especially when your friends are suddenly becoming roadkill for the Dragon Reborn. Aran'gar has died once before, and Graendal can't help but think that everyone she met with in FoH is dead too by Rand's hand... it's a small nudge for her to provide a genuine olive branch to one of her companions.

And apart from that, they're have a sexual relationship, which is another reason they're living together.
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Why were they there? - 23/09/2010 07:14:06 AM 1344 Views
Nyneave - 23/09/2010 09:10:34 AM 876 Views
Makes no real sense... - 23/09/2010 06:58:36 PM 735 Views
- 23/09/2010 07:20:43 PM 620 Views
But how does it make sense... - 23/09/2010 07:25:22 PM 699 Views
Oh come on... duh - 23/09/2010 09:52:51 PM 701 Views
Got to agree with Etzel here. - 23/09/2010 10:09:21 PM 661 Views
I agree as well. - 23/09/2010 11:25:07 PM 583 Views
That's very myopic view of the Forsaken - 24/09/2010 01:05:59 AM 645 Views
I argued... - 25/09/2010 09:38:36 AM 646 Views
Nice Aes Sedai answer! - 25/09/2010 05:47:17 PM 606 Views
Plus... - 25/09/2010 12:49:03 PM 777 Views
Re: Plus... - 25/09/2010 01:40:59 PM 614 Views
Yeah, but... - 25/09/2010 01:57:46 PM 612 Views
Re: Yeah, but... - 25/09/2010 02:48:44 PM 745 Views
I agree, it was totally obvious *NM* - 24/09/2010 07:10:47 AM 257 Views
Well... - 25/09/2010 09:36:08 AM 607 Views
Thusly... - 24/09/2010 01:13:49 AM 661 Views
It's one thing to have an alliance with occasional meetings... - 25/09/2010 09:40:26 AM 615 Views
What a well reasoned rebuttal! - 25/09/2010 02:57:39 PM 605 Views
No, I object because the whole scene was written in an utterly silly way, as I explained... - 25/09/2010 03:06:37 PM 921 Views
You didn't explain... - 25/09/2010 03:11:10 PM 587 Views
You should re-read all my posts in this thread. *NM* - 25/09/2010 03:17:50 PM 627 Views
Though on second thought, I have to correct myself... - 25/09/2010 04:55:25 PM 643 Views
dramatic turn around, Etzel - 25/09/2010 05:26:26 PM 575 Views
Makes sense - 23/09/2010 11:51:00 PM 610 Views
I agree it is deus ex machina - 26/09/2010 06:48:18 AM 823 Views
Still seems very deus ex machina *NM* - 25/09/2010 04:26:21 PM 286 Views

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