Active Users:368 Time:27/04/2025 05:44:37 PM
Re: Continue being irrational then... iHeartGraendal Send a noteboard - 24/09/2010 03:20:49 AM
Dude, you are a freaking jerk. Your so stuck on your own flawed, internally idealized ideas that you have blindd yourself from eing able to accept any alternat viewpoint, thugh these viewpoints are equally, if not more valid than your own arguments.

A few notes:
- putting a shield on someone can be very easy, it is maintaining that shield that proves to be difficult. Since the timeframe of Graendals shield is just moments, ie- a second or two to shield as she is jumping through gateway, I fail to see why any would see any difficulty n this.

Perhaps it would have been relatively easy for Arangar to break thruogh the shield, given a little time, but this time was lacking. ie- the shock, the distraction of incredible large amount of saidin, and the extreme quickness that these events playd out in were enough to delay arangar enouhg to not break through shield immediately, though she possible could if given time, since Graendal's strength is divded in many ways...

As for detecting the shield, consider what you would do if you felt immense amt of saidin bing wielded. I would certainly reach for source. However, graendal was just a little quicker.. arangar reached just after shield in place, ie fraction of second, and thus could readily sense shield being there. Duh... is ths logic so dfficult for you?


We've seen time and again how many things have proven to change with training ... in the same scene you note with Egwene she seems to think that splitting flows requires more strength, yet by KOD she can split hers a dozen ways and more while barely able to channel.

How is this related? First off, to do all the things Rand did, you do indeed need to be strong. It isn't about how much you split, but about what you can do with those split flows. Egwene, when she was Forkroot weakened, could make almost translucent balls and rings of fire. At her full strength, she could have done much more. That is exactly her point with Rand.

For another, this is a matter of knowledge of the Power. But sensing a shield without reaching for the source is not. No one thought Egwene how to see the glow of channeling, yet she figured it out. No one thought her how to sense channelers. She sensed that in Avi herself, then later in Moiraine, Amys and Melaine. It should be the same with shields placed on you. I don't see why Egwene couldn't have felt that in tSR.

Sensing the ability in another woman is something Nynaeve hasn't learned well as late as KOD too ... yet that's supposed to be instinctive ... why is it so hard to believe that a well educated Channeler would be able to feel a shield being placed on them without trying to embrace the source?

But no one thought that ability to Egwene and Elayne. They learned it themselves. Nynaeve failed at what is a very basic and instinctive ability because she resisted using the OP and was in denial about it for a long time.

Frankly, I don't see what education has to do with sensing a shield from the opposite gender. You either feel a kick or you don't. Education won't change that. I don't see why education would change feeling a shield without attempting to channel.

For example, when Rand was in a box and the Aes Sedai were shielding him, never once did he claim to feel the shield without pushing against it. And yet, at many of those moments, LTT was with him, probing the shield, offering suggestions, etc. No one is more educated than LTT. Yet he too needed to physically push against the shield to feel it, sense the knots, and figure out if they were soft or hard. I'm sure you'll explain that away too, but the fact remains that no one has ever shown this ability, and many have shown definite lack of it.

I fail to see why you are in attack mode over this. But to use your own word ... Classy.

I'm in an attack mode because you're ignoring multiple instances of the text proving you wrong, and twisting what it says to suit your purpose. I remember you being the same way with the OP debates.
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Towers of Midnight : Prologue discussion - 21/09/2010 04:38:40 AM 8518 Views
Me Too! Guess who is alive!! - 21/09/2010 04:44:40 AM 2257 Views
A dove, that's weird - 21/09/2010 03:19:10 PM 2004 Views
Re: A dove, that's weird - 21/09/2010 03:26:39 PM 1956 Views
Yes, that's the point - 21/09/2010 11:49:00 PM 1804 Views
It did feel a bit deus ex machina - 22/09/2010 12:03:05 AM 1928 Views
Fain is as creepy as ever - 21/09/2010 05:06:35 AM 2047 Views
You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) *NM* - 21/09/2010 05:10:47 AM 1252 Views
Re: You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) - 21/09/2010 05:14:26 AM 2123 Views
It's D/L on B&N now *NM* - 21/09/2010 05:15:44 AM 1153 Views
Anyone find the audiobook version? *NM* - 21/09/2010 10:20:22 AM 1140 Views
I love the borderlanders - 21/09/2010 05:25:29 AM 1991 Views
Best scene of the prologue *NM* - 21/09/2010 03:28:28 PM 1206 Views
Could somebody post a link to where they got it? I want to go to a site where I can download now *NM* - 21/09/2010 05:39:13 AM 1120 Views
I posted some links here - 21/09/2010 06:04:38 AM 1846 Views
My quick summary - 21/09/2010 06:02:41 AM 2628 Views
Whoa, whoa, whoa. - 23/09/2010 02:59:37 AM 1719 Views
It's good, but... Perrin. Ugh. - 21/09/2010 07:37:43 AM 2041 Views
Awesome! - 21/09/2010 09:00:45 AM 1799 Views
Regarding Graendal - 21/09/2010 10:12:42 AM 2297 Views
Some things... - 21/09/2010 01:18:10 PM 1851 Views
I'm glad. Being right is a good feeling - 21/09/2010 04:12:08 PM 1814 Views
a very weak angreal - 21/09/2010 04:55:15 PM 1806 Views
Even a weak angreal - 21/09/2010 05:47:26 PM 1756 Views
The Angreal Elayne mentions made her 2x as strong as Nynaeve - 21/09/2010 06:04:21 PM 1639 Views
The laughter in Perrin's Dream - 21/09/2010 02:24:14 PM 1876 Views
Probably Slayer - 21/09/2010 04:29:41 PM 1763 Views
Re: Probably Slayer - 21/09/2010 04:39:36 PM 1571 Views
Audio Book - 21/09/2010 06:39:54 PM 1704 Views
Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... - 21/09/2010 06:46:42 PM 1907 Views
It's different (I think?) but I'm certainly no expert and I'm sure someone else will reply - 21/09/2010 06:57:18 PM 1821 Views
OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not - 21/09/2010 07:00:23 PM 1624 Views
Re: OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not. - 21/09/2010 07:11:42 PM 1747 Views
Thanks. Was Arangar channeling at the time? - 21/09/2010 07:13:53 PM 1727 Views
I think so, yes. - 21/09/2010 07:15:44 PM 1669 Views
I don't think so actually - 21/09/2010 07:57:42 PM 1744 Views
I don't think Aran'gar was channeling - 21/09/2010 11:00:22 PM 1690 Views
I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd *NM* - 21/09/2010 11:52:01 PM 979 Views
no she wasn't *NM* - 21/09/2010 10:25:13 PM 1085 Views
nope, no power - 23/09/2010 03:05:30 AM 1578 Views
So here's what happens... - 21/09/2010 07:15:03 PM 2112 Views
Thanks. A few comments... - 21/09/2010 07:27:33 PM 1589 Views
I don't rule out the angreal... - 21/09/2010 07:32:40 PM 1609 Views
Elayne's weakest angreal doubles her strength. Graendal x2 can easily shield Cyndane+Moggy, so... - 21/09/2010 07:35:06 PM 1752 Views
Graendal's seemed much weaker... - 21/09/2010 07:52:20 PM 1607 Views
Elayne also called the x2 turtle angreal "weak"... - 21/09/2010 08:00:01 PM 1637 Views
and we know it wasn't enough to overwhlem Verin's circle - 21/09/2010 08:02:13 PM 1474 Views
I disasgree. There is no evidence that Aran'gar was holding saidin at the time - 21/09/2010 07:42:23 PM 1572 Views
Then why did she gasp at the shield? She couldn't have known what Graendal was weaving. - 21/09/2010 07:52:49 PM 1608 Views
because she was surprised that Graendal would put a shield on her in the first place - 21/09/2010 07:58:45 PM 1632 Views
How did she know there was a shield? - 21/09/2010 09:16:59 PM 1580 Views
Fact: Graendal cannot shield a male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai if they are holding the Source... - 21/09/2010 09:28:17 PM 1558 Views
Who said "they"? - 21/09/2010 09:55:28 PM 1553 Views
I really don't think you have to be holding the source to know you've been shielded - 21/09/2010 10:29:20 PM 1512 Views
Provide evidence? - 21/09/2010 10:36:36 PM 1558 Views
Thanks, but like I said, they were both wrapped in air. That's enough for Aran'gar to wonder - 21/09/2010 10:44:17 PM 1486 Views
They gasped before Graendal wove Air... - 21/09/2010 11:13:48 PM 1564 Views
Alright, you win *NM* - 22/09/2010 02:51:26 AM 1025 Views
*NM* - 22/09/2010 03:06:22 AM 883 Views
Siuan was distracted by a number of other things going on, not to mention how suspect - 22/09/2010 02:43:36 PM 1471 Views
And Aran'gar was fully focussed on Graendal? - 22/09/2010 03:02:16 PM 1700 Views
More so than Siuan was on Elaida when they were shielded. - 22/09/2010 03:33:15 PM 2497 Views
So? - 22/09/2010 03:48:11 PM 1399 Views
It doesn't matter. There are more Shieldings that go unnoticed when not holding the Source - 22/09/2010 03:55:48 PM 1482 Views
Nice catches! - 22/09/2010 04:06:52 PM 1607 Views
we don't know that - 22/09/2010 02:35:50 PM 1547 Views
Huh? - 22/09/2010 03:03:52 PM 1490 Views
Give over, Darius... there's plenty of evidence... - 22/09/2010 03:45:11 PM 1535 Views
Give over what? There is no hard evidence that Aran'gar wouldn't notice a shield put on her - 22/09/2010 05:00:11 PM 1429 Views
What rot... (also, Egwene and Rand) - 22/09/2010 05:21:08 PM 1547 Views
take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. - 22/09/2010 05:38:21 PM 1522 Views
Re: take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. - 22/09/2010 05:45:05 PM 1657 Views
if it was JUST one shield ... but she's shielding an AS and weaving a Gateway too! - 22/09/2010 05:48:52 PM 3559 Views
Well... - 22/09/2010 07:00:26 PM 1581 Views
She says... - 22/09/2010 07:04:32 PM 1584 Views
no one is arguing that - 22/09/2010 07:09:17 PM 1529 Views
Er... - 22/09/2010 07:19:09 PM 1482 Views
I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded - 22/09/2010 07:20:48 PM 2316 Views
Re: I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded - 22/09/2010 07:26:52 PM 2281 Views
Again, I just find that option completely unlikely since Graendals angreal isn't all that strong - 22/09/2010 07:39:02 PM 1554 Views
You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. - 23/09/2010 01:53:25 AM 1621 Views
Re: You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. - 23/09/2010 03:42:31 PM 1524 Views
- 23/09/2010 03:54:02 PM 1522 Views
Re: . The evidence is that no channeled is that strong! - 23/09/2010 04:04:02 PM 1652 Views
Really? - 23/09/2010 06:11:00 PM 1606 Views
Re: Really? - 23/09/2010 09:56:09 PM 1475 Views
That's my point *NM* - 24/09/2010 12:20:45 AM 1018 Views
Dear God! The sheer amount of replies here just blew my mind, and my window (jk). *NM* - 24/09/2010 07:28:14 PM 1053 Views
Y o u' r e h u r t i n g m y s c r o l l b a r *NM* - 24/09/2010 11:30:27 PM 1029 Views
Re: She says... - 22/09/2010 07:12:48 PM 1535 Views
Exactly. - 23/09/2010 01:54:05 AM 1513 Views
The way it reads she is holding open a Gateway, then slams shields on both - 22/09/2010 07:08:17 PM 1491 Views
Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 05:46:19 PM 1608 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 05:53:05 PM 1475 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 07:03:02 PM 1478 Views
Nope - 22/09/2010 07:19:30 PM 1373 Views
Re: Nope - 23/09/2010 02:06:35 AM 1537 Views
Toveine! Now THAT is a good catch, fionwe! - 23/09/2010 07:57:05 AM 1653 Views
Sidious pointed it out, actually. But thanks! - 23/09/2010 03:55:29 PM 1534 Views
And you ignore all the evidence in the series that definitively makes it impossible for Graendal to - 23/09/2010 03:57:49 PM 1421 Views
Well... - 23/09/2010 04:31:27 PM 1594 Views
According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal - 24/09/2010 11:18:30 PM 1737 Views
Re: According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal - 25/09/2010 09:38:41 AM 1582 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 24/09/2010 03:20:49 AM 1700 Views
Oh come on.. be real - 22/09/2010 05:39:51 PM 1496 Views
see that's an argument that makes more sense to me - 22/09/2010 05:47:17 PM 1576 Views
Re: How did she know there was a shield? - 24/09/2010 04:42:25 AM 1527 Views
You'[re missing the part about the bonds of air as well - 21/09/2010 11:06:04 PM 1514 Views
No. The sequence was shield-gasp-tie off shield-wrap in Air. *NM* - 21/09/2010 11:14:41 PM 1062 Views
We have seen people holding the source caught off guard by a shield *NM* - 22/09/2010 12:10:48 AM 1017 Views
Well, exactly! - 22/09/2010 02:01:12 AM 1569 Views
What I think happened - 22/09/2010 09:19:57 AM 1519 Views
It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... - 22/09/2010 10:06:47 AM 1494 Views
Re: It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... - 22/09/2010 01:31:52 PM 1577 Views
Fair point. - 22/09/2010 02:07:05 PM 1550 Views
I think it also bears mentioning that ... - 22/09/2010 04:17:17 PM 1572 Views
Graendal knew Aran'gar was distracted - 23/09/2010 07:10:52 AM 1496 Views
About shielding a channeler holding the Source... - 22/09/2010 05:51:34 PM 2610 Views
Re: About shielding a channeler holding the Source... - 22/09/2010 07:04:37 PM 3035 Views
The angreal makes this an unnecessary debate... - 22/09/2010 07:09:20 PM 1484 Views
she never shielded them - 22/09/2010 07:22:29 PM 1496 Views
True...But it made her strong enough to easily overcome both... - 22/09/2010 07:28:12 PM 1441 Views
This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned - 22/09/2010 07:51:19 PM 1554 Views
Re: This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned - 22/09/2010 07:54:18 PM 1497 Views
LMAO... nice! - 22/09/2010 08:24:20 PM 1513 Views
I think we need to place Aran'gar lower too.. - 22/09/2010 07:10:29 PM 1589 Views
A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... - 22/09/2010 07:13:51 PM 1421 Views
I would agree - 22/09/2010 07:22:50 PM 1573 Views
Re: I would agree - 22/09/2010 07:25:46 PM 1423 Views
Re: A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... - 23/09/2010 03:03:26 AM 1500 Views
Mostly agree - 22/09/2010 07:23:53 PM 1497 Views
Re: Mostly agree - 22/09/2010 07:28:42 PM 1444 Views
I am starting to believe that RJ didn't think quite so literally - 22/09/2010 08:07:45 PM 1505 Views
Not sure if you agreed with this before, but I reached this point awhile ago bwahaha - 22/09/2010 08:53:42 PM 1538 Views
I've been on this side for a good long while - 22/09/2010 09:40:43 PM 1636 Views
*NM* - 28/09/2010 11:54:54 PM 982 Views
Well there is one thing to consider about this - 21/09/2010 07:32:44 PM 1753 Views
So there are 6 Forsaken left. - 21/09/2010 10:23:22 PM 1803 Views
For the record - 21/09/2010 10:53:16 PM 1682 Views
She opened two Gateways, IIRC - 21/09/2010 11:58:29 PM 1567 Views
Re: She opened two Gateways, IIRC - 22/09/2010 02:21:47 AM 1614 Views
Wait...so NO ONE has wanted to discuss the Sapphic scene at Graendal's place? - 22/09/2010 03:48:36 AM 1750 Views
yes, totally Lesbian. *NM* - 22/09/2010 03:04:16 PM 1026 Views
No, the other L word. "LesbiAHNS?" *NM* - 22/09/2010 04:18:55 PM 1083 Views
Yes, it was totally lesbian. - 22/09/2010 07:09:19 PM 1519 Views
No, not at all. Aran'gar is still a dude at heart. I think. *NM* - 22/09/2010 08:18:55 PM 1041 Views
I tend to agree - 23/09/2010 05:42:52 PM 1541 Views
Lady parts + Lady parts = Lesbian sex - 24/09/2010 11:24:36 PM 2159 Views
Yes, but its still a little off - 25/09/2010 09:40:16 AM 1591 Views
Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose - 25/09/2010 04:41:33 PM 1746 Views
Re: Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose - 25/09/2010 05:25:10 PM 1663 Views
What does Graendal think of Rand? - 22/09/2010 02:00:28 PM 1713 Views
She was really surprised and scared. - 22/09/2010 02:11:28 PM 1683 Views
I take it you haven't read the Prologue. - 22/09/2010 02:16:49 PM 1557 Views
Quite a bit... - 22/09/2010 02:31:14 PM 1723 Views
Agreed, she's been worrying about him since the begining - 22/09/2010 03:18:48 PM 1763 Views
Thanks for the answers *NM* - 22/09/2010 05:46:05 PM 998 Views
Second best prologue ever... - 22/09/2010 06:24:44 PM 1956 Views
It's my favorite ever. Only one dark spot tarnished it. - 22/09/2010 07:18:12 PM 1589 Views
Yeah, tEotW is the best... - 22/09/2010 08:22:12 PM 1613 Views
Aran'gar is a tool - 22/09/2010 07:31:36 PM 1750 Views
Yes. s/He was. - 22/09/2010 08:59:16 PM 1589 Views
Shadow invading Kandor and Lan riding trough it. CONNECTION? - 22/09/2010 08:36:05 PM 1760 Views
- 23/09/2010 04:47:11 PM 1667 Views
Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO - 23/09/2010 05:45:41 PM 1683 Views
Re: Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO - 23/09/2010 09:54:33 PM 1634 Views
I believe that Sanderson concocted the entire Graendal/Rand/Balefire part - 23/09/2010 10:24:46 PM 2314 Views
I had a similar thought, but... - 23/09/2010 10:40:58 PM 1594 Views
Probably not Sanderson - 23/09/2010 11:11:54 PM 1635 Views
No way - 24/09/2010 07:14:35 AM 1560 Views
I agree. *NM* - 25/09/2010 09:42:46 AM 1049 Views
A few nits - 12/10/2010 10:21:27 AM 1570 Views
Canadian Download site - 29/09/2010 12:05:12 AM 2070 Views

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