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Really? fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 23/09/2010 06:11:00 PM

I'm not alone in that opinion. We've seen time and again how difficult shielding someone can be unless you are much stronger ... perhaps Aran'gar gasped because she looked at Graendal's face and say her fear. Perhaps it's as you say and Graendal wore her angreal and was actually that strong. But just assuming Graendal could cut her off unaided while Traveling and shielding another makes no sense.

If Aran'gar is as strong as Moghedien (in absolute terms), and Graendal is about as strong as Sammael/Demandred, I wouldn't be surprised if she could do all she did.

Delana is pathetically weak. She's not much stronger than Liandrin, and we saw how easily Moggy shielded her even when weakened by Healing. Plus, is it very likely Delana wouldn't dare hold the source in front of the Foresaken unless given permission. Thus, Graendal would have had to use very little to shield her.

If Aran'gar was definitely weaker than Graendal, Graendal would still be using the bulk of her power to shield Aran'gar. I'm arguing she's strong enough that she can make a small Gateway and shield a non-channeling Delana at the same time. It isn't so very impossible.

If she had her very weak angreal, this becomes still easier. In her next scene, we'll know if she has an angreal, clearing this confusion up.

But either way, if Graendal was say strength 95, and Aran'gar was about 70, then this scene works.

From Nyn and Moggy's battle in tSR, we know that you don't have to put your full strength into shielding someone as strong as you (since both women threw a shield at each other, and had enough left to block the other as well). Which means Graendal probably used around 60 strength on Aran'gar, around 15 or so for Delana (since you need even less to shield a woman not channeling) and used the other 20 strength for her Gateway.

In all probability, she used even less for the shield on Aran'gar.
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a very weak angreal - 21/09/2010 04:55:15 PM 1710 Views
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Audio Book - 21/09/2010 06:39:54 PM 1588 Views
Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... - 21/09/2010 06:46:42 PM 1794 Views
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Re: OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not. - 21/09/2010 07:11:42 PM 1623 Views
Thanks. Was Arangar channeling at the time? - 21/09/2010 07:13:53 PM 1606 Views
I think so, yes. - 21/09/2010 07:15:44 PM 1546 Views
I don't think so actually - 21/09/2010 07:57:42 PM 1638 Views
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Graendal's seemed much weaker... - 21/09/2010 07:52:20 PM 1509 Views
Elayne also called the x2 turtle angreal "weak"... - 21/09/2010 08:00:01 PM 1512 Views
and we know it wasn't enough to overwhlem Verin's circle - 21/09/2010 08:02:13 PM 1356 Views
I disasgree. There is no evidence that Aran'gar was holding saidin at the time - 21/09/2010 07:42:23 PM 1451 Views
Then why did she gasp at the shield? She couldn't have known what Graendal was weaving. - 21/09/2010 07:52:49 PM 1486 Views
because she was surprised that Graendal would put a shield on her in the first place - 21/09/2010 07:58:45 PM 1500 Views
How did she know there was a shield? - 21/09/2010 09:16:59 PM 1459 Views
Fact: Graendal cannot shield a male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai if they are holding the Source... - 21/09/2010 09:28:17 PM 1457 Views
Who said "they"? - 21/09/2010 09:55:28 PM 1430 Views
I really don't think you have to be holding the source to know you've been shielded - 21/09/2010 10:29:20 PM 1398 Views
Provide evidence? - 21/09/2010 10:36:36 PM 1456 Views
Thanks, but like I said, they were both wrapped in air. That's enough for Aran'gar to wonder - 21/09/2010 10:44:17 PM 1368 Views
They gasped before Graendal wove Air... - 21/09/2010 11:13:48 PM 1433 Views
Alright, you win *NM* - 22/09/2010 02:51:26 AM 969 Views
*NM* - 22/09/2010 03:06:22 AM 834 Views
Siuan was distracted by a number of other things going on, not to mention how suspect - 22/09/2010 02:43:36 PM 1350 Views
And Aran'gar was fully focussed on Graendal? - 22/09/2010 03:02:16 PM 1584 Views
More so than Siuan was on Elaida when they were shielded. - 22/09/2010 03:33:15 PM 2364 Views
So? - 22/09/2010 03:48:11 PM 1292 Views
It doesn't matter. There are more Shieldings that go unnoticed when not holding the Source - 22/09/2010 03:55:48 PM 1396 Views
Nice catches! - 22/09/2010 04:06:52 PM 1493 Views
we don't know that - 22/09/2010 02:35:50 PM 1429 Views
Huh? - 22/09/2010 03:03:52 PM 1375 Views
Give over, Darius... there's plenty of evidence... - 22/09/2010 03:45:11 PM 1422 Views
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What rot... (also, Egwene and Rand) - 22/09/2010 05:21:08 PM 1437 Views
take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. - 22/09/2010 05:38:21 PM 1415 Views
Re: take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. - 22/09/2010 05:45:05 PM 1534 Views
if it was JUST one shield ... but she's shielding an AS and weaving a Gateway too! - 22/09/2010 05:48:52 PM 3455 Views
Well... - 22/09/2010 07:00:26 PM 1470 Views
She says... - 22/09/2010 07:04:32 PM 1466 Views
no one is arguing that - 22/09/2010 07:09:17 PM 1412 Views
Er... - 22/09/2010 07:19:09 PM 1367 Views
I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded - 22/09/2010 07:20:48 PM 2192 Views
Re: I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded - 22/09/2010 07:26:52 PM 2157 Views
Again, I just find that option completely unlikely since Graendals angreal isn't all that strong - 22/09/2010 07:39:02 PM 1420 Views
You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. - 23/09/2010 01:53:25 AM 1508 Views
Re: You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. - 23/09/2010 03:42:31 PM 1407 Views
- 23/09/2010 03:54:02 PM 1409 Views
Re: . The evidence is that no channeled is that strong! - 23/09/2010 04:04:02 PM 1532 Views
Really? - 23/09/2010 06:11:00 PM 1488 Views
Re: Really? - 23/09/2010 09:56:09 PM 1361 Views
That's my point *NM* - 24/09/2010 12:20:45 AM 968 Views
Re: She says... - 22/09/2010 07:12:48 PM 1416 Views
Exactly. - 23/09/2010 01:54:05 AM 1397 Views
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Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 05:46:19 PM 1490 Views
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Nope - 22/09/2010 07:19:30 PM 1270 Views
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Toveine! Now THAT is a good catch, fionwe! - 23/09/2010 07:57:05 AM 1532 Views
Sidious pointed it out, actually. But thanks! - 23/09/2010 03:55:29 PM 1411 Views
And you ignore all the evidence in the series that definitively makes it impossible for Graendal to - 23/09/2010 03:57:49 PM 1302 Views
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Re: According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal - 25/09/2010 09:38:41 AM 1458 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 24/09/2010 03:20:49 AM 1578 Views
Oh come on.. be real - 22/09/2010 05:39:51 PM 1379 Views
see that's an argument that makes more sense to me - 22/09/2010 05:47:17 PM 1461 Views
Re: How did she know there was a shield? - 24/09/2010 04:42:25 AM 1404 Views
You'[re missing the part about the bonds of air as well - 21/09/2010 11:06:04 PM 1402 Views
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It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... - 22/09/2010 10:06:47 AM 1380 Views
Re: It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... - 22/09/2010 01:31:52 PM 1463 Views
Fair point. - 22/09/2010 02:07:05 PM 1447 Views
I think it also bears mentioning that ... - 22/09/2010 04:17:17 PM 1460 Views
Graendal knew Aran'gar was distracted - 23/09/2010 07:10:52 AM 1370 Views
About shielding a channeler holding the Source... - 22/09/2010 05:51:34 PM 2478 Views
Re: About shielding a channeler holding the Source... - 22/09/2010 07:04:37 PM 2917 Views
The angreal makes this an unnecessary debate... - 22/09/2010 07:09:20 PM 1371 Views
she never shielded them - 22/09/2010 07:22:29 PM 1371 Views
True...But it made her strong enough to easily overcome both... - 22/09/2010 07:28:12 PM 1324 Views
This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned - 22/09/2010 07:51:19 PM 1426 Views
Re: This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned - 22/09/2010 07:54:18 PM 1380 Views
LMAO... nice! - 22/09/2010 08:24:20 PM 1397 Views
I think we need to place Aran'gar lower too.. - 22/09/2010 07:10:29 PM 1465 Views
A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... - 22/09/2010 07:13:51 PM 1304 Views
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Re: I would agree - 22/09/2010 07:25:46 PM 1318 Views
Re: A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... - 23/09/2010 03:03:26 AM 1389 Views
Mostly agree - 22/09/2010 07:23:53 PM 1374 Views
Re: Mostly agree - 22/09/2010 07:28:42 PM 1337 Views
I am starting to believe that RJ didn't think quite so literally - 22/09/2010 08:07:45 PM 1392 Views
Not sure if you agreed with this before, but I reached this point awhile ago bwahaha - 22/09/2010 08:53:42 PM 1421 Views
I've been on this side for a good long while - 22/09/2010 09:40:43 PM 1518 Views
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So there are 6 Forsaken left. - 21/09/2010 10:23:22 PM 1679 Views
For the record - 21/09/2010 10:53:16 PM 1569 Views
She opened two Gateways, IIRC - 21/09/2010 11:58:29 PM 1458 Views
Re: She opened two Gateways, IIRC - 22/09/2010 02:21:47 AM 1490 Views
Wait...so NO ONE has wanted to discuss the Sapphic scene at Graendal's place? - 22/09/2010 03:48:36 AM 1623 Views
yes, totally Lesbian. *NM* - 22/09/2010 03:04:16 PM 969 Views
No, the other L word. "LesbiAHNS?" *NM* - 22/09/2010 04:18:55 PM 1024 Views
Yes, it was totally lesbian. - 22/09/2010 07:09:19 PM 1425 Views
No, not at all. Aran'gar is still a dude at heart. I think. *NM* - 22/09/2010 08:18:55 PM 990 Views
I tend to agree - 23/09/2010 05:42:52 PM 1432 Views
Lady parts + Lady parts = Lesbian sex - 24/09/2010 11:24:36 PM 2046 Views
Yes, but its still a little off - 25/09/2010 09:40:16 AM 1480 Views
Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose - 25/09/2010 04:41:33 PM 1627 Views
Re: Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose - 25/09/2010 05:25:10 PM 1531 Views
What does Graendal think of Rand? - 22/09/2010 02:00:28 PM 1600 Views
She was really surprised and scared. - 22/09/2010 02:11:28 PM 1561 Views
I take it you haven't read the Prologue. - 22/09/2010 02:16:49 PM 1443 Views
Quite a bit... - 22/09/2010 02:31:14 PM 1603 Views
Agreed, she's been worrying about him since the begining - 22/09/2010 03:18:48 PM 1636 Views
Thanks for the answers *NM* - 22/09/2010 05:46:05 PM 930 Views
Second best prologue ever... - 22/09/2010 06:24:44 PM 1828 Views
It's my favorite ever. Only one dark spot tarnished it. - 22/09/2010 07:18:12 PM 1473 Views
Yeah, tEotW is the best... - 22/09/2010 08:22:12 PM 1501 Views
Aran'gar is a tool - 22/09/2010 07:31:36 PM 1639 Views
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Shadow invading Kandor and Lan riding trough it. CONNECTION? - 22/09/2010 08:36:05 PM 1632 Views
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Re: Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO - 23/09/2010 09:54:33 PM 1530 Views
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I had a similar thought, but... - 23/09/2010 10:40:58 PM 1485 Views
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No way - 24/09/2010 07:14:35 AM 1447 Views
I agree. *NM* - 25/09/2010 09:42:46 AM 975 Views
A few nits - 12/10/2010 10:21:27 AM 1446 Views
Canadian Download site - 29/09/2010 12:05:12 AM 1944 Views

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