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I've been on this side for a good long while darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 22/09/2010 09:40:43 PM
...the more I read the series the more fuzzy the system seems to become.


I started re-reading the series earlier this year, and came to the same conclusion a few months ago. It had the unfortunate side effect of killing any interest I had in OP debates, which is very sad for me.


While I think it's generally easy for us to puzzle out who is stronger than who (within Male/Female lines), I think it's all but impossible to figure out how much stronger any one may be than another.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Towers of Midnight : Prologue discussion - 21/09/2010 04:38:40 AM 8506 Views
Me Too! Guess who is alive!! - 21/09/2010 04:44:40 AM 2247 Views
A dove, that's weird - 21/09/2010 03:19:10 PM 1993 Views
Re: A dove, that's weird - 21/09/2010 03:26:39 PM 1946 Views
Yes, that's the point - 21/09/2010 11:49:00 PM 1792 Views
It did feel a bit deus ex machina - 22/09/2010 12:03:05 AM 1914 Views
Fain is as creepy as ever - 21/09/2010 05:06:35 AM 2032 Views
You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) *NM* - 21/09/2010 05:10:47 AM 1247 Views
Re: You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) - 21/09/2010 05:14:26 AM 2112 Views
It's D/L on B&N now *NM* - 21/09/2010 05:15:44 AM 1144 Views
Anyone find the audiobook version? *NM* - 21/09/2010 10:20:22 AM 1123 Views
I love the borderlanders - 21/09/2010 05:25:29 AM 1982 Views
Best scene of the prologue *NM* - 21/09/2010 03:28:28 PM 1199 Views
Could somebody post a link to where they got it? I want to go to a site where I can download now *NM* - 21/09/2010 05:39:13 AM 1112 Views
I posted some links here - 21/09/2010 06:04:38 AM 1835 Views
My quick summary - 21/09/2010 06:02:41 AM 2618 Views
Whoa, whoa, whoa. - 23/09/2010 02:59:37 AM 1706 Views
It's good, but... Perrin. Ugh. - 21/09/2010 07:37:43 AM 2026 Views
Awesome! - 21/09/2010 09:00:45 AM 1786 Views
Regarding Graendal - 21/09/2010 10:12:42 AM 2287 Views
Some things... - 21/09/2010 01:18:10 PM 1833 Views
I'm glad. Being right is a good feeling - 21/09/2010 04:12:08 PM 1802 Views
a very weak angreal - 21/09/2010 04:55:15 PM 1794 Views
Even a weak angreal - 21/09/2010 05:47:26 PM 1744 Views
The Angreal Elayne mentions made her 2x as strong as Nynaeve - 21/09/2010 06:04:21 PM 1629 Views
The laughter in Perrin's Dream - 21/09/2010 02:24:14 PM 1864 Views
Probably Slayer - 21/09/2010 04:29:41 PM 1751 Views
Re: Probably Slayer - 21/09/2010 04:39:36 PM 1556 Views
Audio Book - 21/09/2010 06:39:54 PM 1693 Views
Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... - 21/09/2010 06:46:42 PM 1897 Views
It's different (I think?) but I'm certainly no expert and I'm sure someone else will reply - 21/09/2010 06:57:18 PM 1809 Views
OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not - 21/09/2010 07:00:23 PM 1614 Views
Re: OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not. - 21/09/2010 07:11:42 PM 1735 Views
Thanks. Was Arangar channeling at the time? - 21/09/2010 07:13:53 PM 1709 Views
I think so, yes. - 21/09/2010 07:15:44 PM 1658 Views
I don't think so actually - 21/09/2010 07:57:42 PM 1733 Views
I don't think Aran'gar was channeling - 21/09/2010 11:00:22 PM 1672 Views
I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd *NM* - 21/09/2010 11:52:01 PM 970 Views
no she wasn't *NM* - 21/09/2010 10:25:13 PM 1079 Views
nope, no power - 23/09/2010 03:05:30 AM 1570 Views
So here's what happens... - 21/09/2010 07:15:03 PM 2100 Views
Thanks. A few comments... - 21/09/2010 07:27:33 PM 1579 Views
I don't rule out the angreal... - 21/09/2010 07:32:40 PM 1600 Views
Elayne's weakest angreal doubles her strength. Graendal x2 can easily shield Cyndane+Moggy, so... - 21/09/2010 07:35:06 PM 1742 Views
Graendal's seemed much weaker... - 21/09/2010 07:52:20 PM 1596 Views
Elayne also called the x2 turtle angreal "weak"... - 21/09/2010 08:00:01 PM 1625 Views
and we know it wasn't enough to overwhlem Verin's circle - 21/09/2010 08:02:13 PM 1456 Views
I disasgree. There is no evidence that Aran'gar was holding saidin at the time - 21/09/2010 07:42:23 PM 1561 Views
Then why did she gasp at the shield? She couldn't have known what Graendal was weaving. - 21/09/2010 07:52:49 PM 1600 Views
because she was surprised that Graendal would put a shield on her in the first place - 21/09/2010 07:58:45 PM 1621 Views
How did she know there was a shield? - 21/09/2010 09:16:59 PM 1567 Views
Fact: Graendal cannot shield a male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai if they are holding the Source... - 21/09/2010 09:28:17 PM 1548 Views
Who said "they"? - 21/09/2010 09:55:28 PM 1543 Views
I really don't think you have to be holding the source to know you've been shielded - 21/09/2010 10:29:20 PM 1503 Views
Provide evidence? - 21/09/2010 10:36:36 PM 1547 Views
Thanks, but like I said, they were both wrapped in air. That's enough for Aran'gar to wonder - 21/09/2010 10:44:17 PM 1470 Views
They gasped before Graendal wove Air... - 21/09/2010 11:13:48 PM 1552 Views
Alright, you win *NM* - 22/09/2010 02:51:26 AM 1019 Views
*NM* - 22/09/2010 03:06:22 AM 876 Views
Siuan was distracted by a number of other things going on, not to mention how suspect - 22/09/2010 02:43:36 PM 1462 Views
And Aran'gar was fully focussed on Graendal? - 22/09/2010 03:02:16 PM 1689 Views
More so than Siuan was on Elaida when they were shielded. - 22/09/2010 03:33:15 PM 2477 Views
So? - 22/09/2010 03:48:11 PM 1389 Views
It doesn't matter. There are more Shieldings that go unnoticed when not holding the Source - 22/09/2010 03:55:48 PM 1471 Views
Nice catches! - 22/09/2010 04:06:52 PM 1597 Views
we don't know that - 22/09/2010 02:35:50 PM 1534 Views
Huh? - 22/09/2010 03:03:52 PM 1475 Views
Give over, Darius... there's plenty of evidence... - 22/09/2010 03:45:11 PM 1518 Views
Give over what? There is no hard evidence that Aran'gar wouldn't notice a shield put on her - 22/09/2010 05:00:11 PM 1419 Views
What rot... (also, Egwene and Rand) - 22/09/2010 05:21:08 PM 1536 Views
take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. - 22/09/2010 05:38:21 PM 1510 Views
Re: take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. - 22/09/2010 05:45:05 PM 1646 Views
if it was JUST one shield ... but she's shielding an AS and weaving a Gateway too! - 22/09/2010 05:48:52 PM 3549 Views
Well... - 22/09/2010 07:00:26 PM 1573 Views
She says... - 22/09/2010 07:04:32 PM 1573 Views
no one is arguing that - 22/09/2010 07:09:17 PM 1518 Views
Er... - 22/09/2010 07:19:09 PM 1472 Views
I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded - 22/09/2010 07:20:48 PM 2305 Views
Re: I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded - 22/09/2010 07:26:52 PM 2272 Views
Again, I just find that option completely unlikely since Graendals angreal isn't all that strong - 22/09/2010 07:39:02 PM 1537 Views
You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. - 23/09/2010 01:53:25 AM 1606 Views
Re: You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. - 23/09/2010 03:42:31 PM 1513 Views
- 23/09/2010 03:54:02 PM 1511 Views
Re: . The evidence is that no channeled is that strong! - 23/09/2010 04:04:02 PM 1639 Views
Really? - 23/09/2010 06:11:00 PM 1594 Views
Re: Really? - 23/09/2010 09:56:09 PM 1464 Views
That's my point *NM* - 24/09/2010 12:20:45 AM 1012 Views
Dear God! The sheer amount of replies here just blew my mind, and my window (jk). *NM* - 24/09/2010 07:28:14 PM 1038 Views
Y o u' r e h u r t i n g m y s c r o l l b a r *NM* - 24/09/2010 11:30:27 PM 1017 Views
Re: She says... - 22/09/2010 07:12:48 PM 1522 Views
Exactly. - 23/09/2010 01:54:05 AM 1499 Views
The way it reads she is holding open a Gateway, then slams shields on both - 22/09/2010 07:08:17 PM 1482 Views
Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 05:46:19 PM 1596 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 05:53:05 PM 1466 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 07:03:02 PM 1467 Views
Nope - 22/09/2010 07:19:30 PM 1364 Views
Re: Nope - 23/09/2010 02:06:35 AM 1521 Views
Toveine! Now THAT is a good catch, fionwe! - 23/09/2010 07:57:05 AM 1643 Views
Sidious pointed it out, actually. But thanks! - 23/09/2010 03:55:29 PM 1523 Views
And you ignore all the evidence in the series that definitively makes it impossible for Graendal to - 23/09/2010 03:57:49 PM 1403 Views
Well... - 23/09/2010 04:31:27 PM 1584 Views
According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal - 24/09/2010 11:18:30 PM 1726 Views
Re: According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal - 25/09/2010 09:38:41 AM 1572 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 24/09/2010 03:20:49 AM 1688 Views
Oh come on.. be real - 22/09/2010 05:39:51 PM 1481 Views
see that's an argument that makes more sense to me - 22/09/2010 05:47:17 PM 1562 Views
Re: How did she know there was a shield? - 24/09/2010 04:42:25 AM 1509 Views
You'[re missing the part about the bonds of air as well - 21/09/2010 11:06:04 PM 1493 Views
No. The sequence was shield-gasp-tie off shield-wrap in Air. *NM* - 21/09/2010 11:14:41 PM 1056 Views
We have seen people holding the source caught off guard by a shield *NM* - 22/09/2010 12:10:48 AM 1010 Views
Well, exactly! - 22/09/2010 02:01:12 AM 1558 Views
What I think happened - 22/09/2010 09:19:57 AM 1508 Views
It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... - 22/09/2010 10:06:47 AM 1482 Views
Re: It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... - 22/09/2010 01:31:52 PM 1567 Views
Fair point. - 22/09/2010 02:07:05 PM 1540 Views
I think it also bears mentioning that ... - 22/09/2010 04:17:17 PM 1561 Views
Graendal knew Aran'gar was distracted - 23/09/2010 07:10:52 AM 1482 Views
About shielding a channeler holding the Source... - 22/09/2010 05:51:34 PM 2593 Views
Re: About shielding a channeler holding the Source... - 22/09/2010 07:04:37 PM 3022 Views
The angreal makes this an unnecessary debate... - 22/09/2010 07:09:20 PM 1473 Views
she never shielded them - 22/09/2010 07:22:29 PM 1481 Views
True...But it made her strong enough to easily overcome both... - 22/09/2010 07:28:12 PM 1431 Views
This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned - 22/09/2010 07:51:19 PM 1538 Views
Re: This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned - 22/09/2010 07:54:18 PM 1487 Views
LMAO... nice! - 22/09/2010 08:24:20 PM 1504 Views
I think we need to place Aran'gar lower too.. - 22/09/2010 07:10:29 PM 1577 Views
A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... - 22/09/2010 07:13:51 PM 1411 Views
I would agree - 22/09/2010 07:22:50 PM 1562 Views
Re: I would agree - 22/09/2010 07:25:46 PM 1414 Views
Re: A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... - 23/09/2010 03:03:26 AM 1488 Views
Mostly agree - 22/09/2010 07:23:53 PM 1483 Views
Re: Mostly agree - 22/09/2010 07:28:42 PM 1432 Views
I am starting to believe that RJ didn't think quite so literally - 22/09/2010 08:07:45 PM 1496 Views
Not sure if you agreed with this before, but I reached this point awhile ago bwahaha - 22/09/2010 08:53:42 PM 1528 Views
I've been on this side for a good long while - 22/09/2010 09:40:43 PM 1626 Views
*NM* - 28/09/2010 11:54:54 PM 975 Views
Well there is one thing to consider about this - 21/09/2010 07:32:44 PM 1744 Views
So there are 6 Forsaken left. - 21/09/2010 10:23:22 PM 1784 Views
For the record - 21/09/2010 10:53:16 PM 1669 Views
She opened two Gateways, IIRC - 21/09/2010 11:58:29 PM 1556 Views
Re: She opened two Gateways, IIRC - 22/09/2010 02:21:47 AM 1602 Views
Wait...so NO ONE has wanted to discuss the Sapphic scene at Graendal's place? - 22/09/2010 03:48:36 AM 1735 Views
yes, totally Lesbian. *NM* - 22/09/2010 03:04:16 PM 1019 Views
No, the other L word. "LesbiAHNS?" *NM* - 22/09/2010 04:18:55 PM 1077 Views
Yes, it was totally lesbian. - 22/09/2010 07:09:19 PM 1505 Views
No, not at all. Aran'gar is still a dude at heart. I think. *NM* - 22/09/2010 08:18:55 PM 1033 Views
I tend to agree - 23/09/2010 05:42:52 PM 1526 Views
Lady parts + Lady parts = Lesbian sex - 24/09/2010 11:24:36 PM 2146 Views
Yes, but its still a little off - 25/09/2010 09:40:16 AM 1578 Views
Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose - 25/09/2010 04:41:33 PM 1732 Views
Re: Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose - 25/09/2010 05:25:10 PM 1651 Views
What does Graendal think of Rand? - 22/09/2010 02:00:28 PM 1703 Views
She was really surprised and scared. - 22/09/2010 02:11:28 PM 1670 Views
I take it you haven't read the Prologue. - 22/09/2010 02:16:49 PM 1544 Views
Quite a bit... - 22/09/2010 02:31:14 PM 1709 Views
Agreed, she's been worrying about him since the begining - 22/09/2010 03:18:48 PM 1745 Views
Thanks for the answers *NM* - 22/09/2010 05:46:05 PM 984 Views
Second best prologue ever... - 22/09/2010 06:24:44 PM 1942 Views
It's my favorite ever. Only one dark spot tarnished it. - 22/09/2010 07:18:12 PM 1577 Views
Yeah, tEotW is the best... - 22/09/2010 08:22:12 PM 1599 Views
Aran'gar is a tool - 22/09/2010 07:31:36 PM 1740 Views
Yes. s/He was. - 22/09/2010 08:59:16 PM 1577 Views
Shadow invading Kandor and Lan riding trough it. CONNECTION? - 22/09/2010 08:36:05 PM 1748 Views
- 23/09/2010 04:47:11 PM 1653 Views
Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO - 23/09/2010 05:45:41 PM 1671 Views
Re: Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO - 23/09/2010 09:54:33 PM 1624 Views
I believe that Sanderson concocted the entire Graendal/Rand/Balefire part - 23/09/2010 10:24:46 PM 2301 Views
I had a similar thought, but... - 23/09/2010 10:40:58 PM 1583 Views
Probably not Sanderson - 23/09/2010 11:11:54 PM 1623 Views
No way - 24/09/2010 07:14:35 AM 1535 Views
I agree. *NM* - 25/09/2010 09:42:46 AM 1040 Views
A few nits - 12/10/2010 10:21:27 AM 1558 Views
Canadian Download site - 29/09/2010 12:05:12 AM 2057 Views

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