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Again, I just find that option completely unlikely since Graendals angreal isn't all that strong darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 22/09/2010 07:39:02 PM
First, she weaves a Gateway. While holding it open, she says "she wove two shields...". That's conclusive, IMO.


it's your supposition that because Aran'gar gasps that means she must have been holding the Power that I question.


If Aran'gar hadn't been holding saidin she never would have known about the shield. It is saidar after all. We've seen this happen to Rand when Lanfear shielded him. It's only detectable when they try reach for the Source and feel the 'glass barrier'.

Delana might have known obviously.

One small possibility is that Aran'gar gasped as she felt all the balefire hurling towards her, much like Nynaeve did when Moghedien balefired her. Depending on how quickly this scene took place.


without Graendal having to have cut her off from the Power. Nothing more.


Yeah I would have to disagree with that opinion. We've seen that when men and women shield each other, it's undetectable unless they are holding the Source (e.g. when Logain shields the Reds who've come after the BT). It is a weave of the opposite Power, obviously, and therefore not detectable unless they reach for the Source.

I'd be surprised if you can find an example to contradict this. On the contrary there are lots of examples of people gasping or their eyes bulging when their connection is suddenly severed.


There is also nothing to say that a well trained Channeler would NOT know when a shield was placed on them. One Gasp just isn't compelling evidence to me that she was holding the Power when Graendal shielded her.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Towers of Midnight : Prologue discussion fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 04:38:40 AM 8391 Views
Me Too! Guess who is alive!! PatAtt - 21/09/2010 04:44:40 AM 2141 Views
A dove, that's weird BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 03:19:10 PM 1890 Views
Re: A dove, that's weird Ryan - 21/09/2010 03:26:39 PM 1836 Views
Yes, that's the point BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:49:00 PM 1693 Views
It did feel a bit deus ex machina Ryan - 22/09/2010 12:03:05 AM 1799 Views
What Ryan said. And we only assumed that they can only use those animals *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 06:53:05 PM 1114 Views
Fain is as creepy as ever PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:06:35 AM 1908 Views
You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 05:10:47 AM 1196 Views
Re: You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:14:26 AM 2002 Views
It's D/L on B&N now *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 05:15:44 AM 1094 Views
Anyone find the audiobook version? *NM* Yuri - 21/09/2010 10:20:22 AM 1069 Views
If you're in the US, Audible.com. No clue about availability in the UK. *NM* RandAllThor - 21/09/2010 06:29:45 PM 1062 Views
I love the borderlanders PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:25:29 AM 1869 Views
Best scene of the prologue *NM* Ryan - 21/09/2010 03:28:28 PM 1152 Views
Could somebody post a link to where they got it? I want to go to a site where I can download now *NM* Guava - 21/09/2010 05:39:13 AM 1060 Views
I posted some links here PatAtt - 21/09/2010 06:04:38 AM 1738 Views
My quick summary PatAtt - 21/09/2010 06:02:41 AM 2508 Views
Whoa, whoa, whoa. DREWRULESWOT! - 23/09/2010 02:59:37 AM 1585 Views
It's good, but... Perrin. Ugh. Deadsy - 21/09/2010 07:37:43 AM 1921 Views
Awesome! Ryan - 21/09/2010 09:00:45 AM 1680 Views
Regarding Graendal Sidious - 21/09/2010 10:12:42 AM 2183 Views
Some things... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 01:18:10 PM 1753 Views
I'm glad. Being right is a good feeling RugbyPlayingAshaman - 21/09/2010 04:12:08 PM 1697 Views
a very weak angreal darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 04:55:15 PM 1710 Views
Even a weak angreal malekithe - 21/09/2010 05:47:26 PM 1646 Views
The Angreal Elayne mentions made her 2x as strong as Nynaeve darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 06:04:21 PM 1522 Views
Graendal watched Aran'gar get nuked. Aran'gar is gone gone gone. Tom - 21/09/2010 10:11:41 PM 1690 Views
The laughter in Perrin's Dream Syraelle - 21/09/2010 02:24:14 PM 1771 Views
Probably Slayer RugbyPlayingAshaman - 21/09/2010 04:29:41 PM 1650 Views
Re: Probably Slayer Syraelle - 21/09/2010 04:39:36 PM 1450 Views
Audio Book Matt_at_Heart - 21/09/2010 06:39:54 PM 1587 Views
Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... Shannow - 21/09/2010 06:46:42 PM 1794 Views
It's different (I think?) but I'm certainly no expert and I'm sure someone else will reply Deadsy - 21/09/2010 06:57:18 PM 1696 Views
OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:00:23 PM 1513 Views
Re: OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not. Deadsy - 21/09/2010 07:11:42 PM 1622 Views
Thanks. Was Arangar channeling at the time? Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:13:53 PM 1605 Views
I think so, yes. fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:15:44 PM 1545 Views
I don't think so actually darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:57:42 PM 1638 Views
I don't think Aran'gar was channeling Ryan - 21/09/2010 11:00:22 PM 1593 Views
I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd *NM* BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:52:01 PM 920 Views
Re: I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd Heiko - 22/09/2010 02:57:02 AM 1460 Views
no she wasn't *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:25:13 PM 1034 Views
nope, no power newyorkersedai - 23/09/2010 03:05:30 AM 1472 Views
So here's what happens... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:15:03 PM 1980 Views
Thanks. A few comments... Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:27:33 PM 1473 Views
I don't rule out the angreal... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:32:40 PM 1509 Views
Elayne's weakest angreal doubles her strength. Graendal x2 can easily shield Cyndane+Moggy, so... Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:35:06 PM 1638 Views
Graendal's seemed much weaker... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:52:20 PM 1508 Views
Elayne also called the x2 turtle angreal "weak"... Shannow - 21/09/2010 08:00:01 PM 1512 Views
and we know it wasn't enough to overwhlem Verin's circle darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 08:02:13 PM 1356 Views
I disasgree. There is no evidence that Aran'gar was holding saidin at the time darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:42:23 PM 1450 Views
Then why did she gasp at the shield? She couldn't have known what Graendal was weaving. fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:52:49 PM 1486 Views
because she was surprised that Graendal would put a shield on her in the first place darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:58:45 PM 1500 Views
How did she know there was a shield? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:16:59 PM 1458 Views
Fact: Graendal cannot shield a male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai if they are holding the Source... Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:28:17 PM 1457 Views
Who said "they"? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:55:28 PM 1429 Views
Depends on the level of surprise, I guess. If he was only holding a trickle of saidin, then maybe Shannow - 21/09/2010 10:05:37 PM 1491 Views
I don't think strength is the only determinant... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:24:24 PM 1459 Views
I really don't think you have to be holding the source to know you've been shielded Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:29:20 PM 1397 Views
Provide evidence? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:36:36 PM 1455 Views
Thanks, but like I said, they were both wrapped in air. That's enough for Aran'gar to wonder Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:44:17 PM 1367 Views
They gasped before Graendal wove Air... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 11:13:48 PM 1433 Views
Alright, you win *NM* Deadsy - 22/09/2010 02:51:26 AM 968 Views
*NM* fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:06:22 AM 833 Views
Siuan was distracted by a number of other things going on, not to mention how suspect darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 02:43:36 PM 1349 Views
And Aran'gar was fully focussed on Graendal? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:02:16 PM 1584 Views
More so than Siuan was on Elaida when they were shielded. darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:33:15 PM 2364 Views
So? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:48:11 PM 1291 Views
It doesn't matter. There are more Shieldings that go unnoticed when not holding the Source Mik - 22/09/2010 03:55:48 PM 1396 Views
Nice catches! fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 04:06:52 PM 1492 Views
we don't know that darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 02:35:50 PM 1428 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:03:52 PM 1374 Views
Give over, Darius... there's plenty of evidence... Mik - 22/09/2010 03:45:11 PM 1422 Views
Give over what? There is no hard evidence that Aran'gar wouldn't notice a shield put on her darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:00:11 PM 1329 Views
What rot... (also, Egwene and Rand) fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 05:21:08 PM 1437 Views
take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:38:21 PM 1414 Views
Re: take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:45:05 PM 1533 Views
if it was JUST one shield ... but she's shielding an AS and weaving a Gateway too! darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:48:52 PM 3455 Views
Well... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:00:26 PM 1470 Views
She says... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:04:32 PM 1466 Views
no one is arguing that darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:09:17 PM 1412 Views
Er... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:19:09 PM 1366 Views
I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:20:48 PM 2192 Views
Re: I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:26:52 PM 2156 Views
Again, I just find that option completely unlikely since Graendals angreal isn't all that strong darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:39:02 PM 1420 Views
You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 01:53:25 AM 1507 Views
Re: You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 03:42:31 PM 1406 Views
fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:54:02 PM 1409 Views
Re: . The evidence is that no channeled is that strong! darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 04:04:02 PM 1531 Views
Really? fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 06:11:00 PM 1487 Views
Re: Really? Sidious - 23/09/2010 09:56:09 PM 1360 Views
That's my point *NM* darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 12:20:45 AM 967 Views
Dear God! The sheer amount of replies here just blew my mind, and my window (jk). *NM* Bookwyrm - 24/09/2010 07:28:14 PM 988 Views
Y o u' r e h u r t i n g m y s c r o l l b a r *NM* Marshall - 24/09/2010 11:30:27 PM 983 Views
Re: She says... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:12:48 PM 1416 Views
Exactly. fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 01:54:05 AM 1396 Views
The way it reads she is holding open a Gateway, then slams shields on both darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:08:17 PM 1389 Views
Continue being irrational then... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 05:46:19 PM 1489 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:53:05 PM 1350 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:03:02 PM 1370 Views
Nope darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:19:30 PM 1269 Views
Re: Nope fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 02:06:35 AM 1421 Views
Toveine! Now THAT is a good catch, fionwe! Mik - 23/09/2010 07:57:05 AM 1532 Views
Sidious pointed it out, actually. But thanks! fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:55:29 PM 1410 Views
And you ignore all the evidence in the series that definitively makes it impossible for Graendal to darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 03:57:49 PM 1301 Views
Well... Sidious - 23/09/2010 04:31:27 PM 1486 Views
According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 11:18:30 PM 1615 Views
Re: According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal Sidious - 25/09/2010 09:38:41 AM 1457 Views
Possible, but he specifically calls out when she ties off other weaves in the scene darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 04:28:48 PM 1468 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... iHeartGraendal - 24/09/2010 03:20:49 AM 1577 Views
Oh come on.. be real Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:39:51 PM 1379 Views
see that's an argument that makes more sense to me darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:47:17 PM 1460 Views
Re: How did she know there was a shield? Gee69 - 24/09/2010 04:42:25 AM 1403 Views
You can sense the source when shielded. Entering a stedding you can't even sense it. *NM* Myrdhyn - 24/09/2010 02:46:09 PM 1079 Views
You'[re missing the part about the bonds of air as well Ryan - 21/09/2010 11:06:04 PM 1401 Views
No. The sequence was shield-gasp-tie off shield-wrap in Air. *NM* fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 11:14:41 PM 1011 Views
We have seen people holding the source caught off guard by a shield *NM* Ryan - 22/09/2010 12:10:48 AM 963 Views
Well, exactly! fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 02:01:12 AM 1458 Views
Aran'gar and Delana were caught with their pants down by Graendal Ryan - 22/09/2010 06:40:41 AM 1677 Views
What I think happened Sidious - 22/09/2010 09:19:57 AM 1428 Views
It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... Shannow - 22/09/2010 10:06:47 AM 1379 Views
Re: It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... Sidious - 22/09/2010 01:31:52 PM 1462 Views
Fair point. Shannow - 22/09/2010 02:07:05 PM 1447 Views
I think it also bears mentioning that ... Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 04:17:17 PM 1459 Views
Graendal knew Aran'gar was distracted malekithe - 23/09/2010 07:10:52 AM 1369 Views
About shielding a channeler holding the Source... lilltempest - 22/09/2010 05:51:34 PM 2477 Views
Re: About shielding a channeler holding the Source... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:04:37 PM 2916 Views
The angreal makes this an unnecessary debate... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:09:20 PM 1371 Views
she never shielded them darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:22:29 PM 1371 Views
True...But it made her strong enough to easily overcome both... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:28:12 PM 1323 Views
This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:51:19 PM 1426 Views
Re: This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:54:18 PM 1379 Views
LMAO... nice! darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 08:24:20 PM 1396 Views
I think we need to place Aran'gar lower too.. fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:10:29 PM 1464 Views
A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:13:51 PM 1303 Views
I would agree Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:22:50 PM 1456 Views
Re: I would agree darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:25:46 PM 1317 Views
Re: A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:03:26 AM 1388 Views
Mostly agree darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:23:53 PM 1374 Views
Re: Mostly agree Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:28:42 PM 1336 Views
Ever wonder why Graendal was given an angreal in the first place... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:34:21 PM 1437 Views
Re: Ever wonder why Graendal was given an angreal in the first place... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:50:55 PM 1479 Views
I am starting to believe that RJ didn't think quite so literally darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 08:07:45 PM 1391 Views
Not sure if you agreed with this before, but I reached this point awhile ago bwahaha RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/09/2010 08:53:42 PM 1420 Views
I've been on this side for a good long while darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 09:40:43 PM 1518 Views
*NM* alanna aes sedai - 28/09/2010 11:54:54 PM 922 Views
Well there is one thing to consider about this darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:32:44 PM 1640 Views
Yes, that seems the most likely answer. That and the use of the angreal. Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:35:53 PM 1520 Views
Aren't female channelers more dexterous in weaving than male? So her speed could be part of that. *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 03:42:56 AM 940 Views
Re: Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... The Angry Druid - 01/10/2010 12:23:57 AM 1410 Views
I'm disappointed that the dove was not hidden in a background description in the tGS scene... Shannow - 21/09/2010 08:22:29 PM 1505 Views
I was thinking the same thing ... was actually just about to go look for it myself! darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 09:01:34 PM 1494 Views
I'm happy there wasn't... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:18:30 PM 1525 Views
Do you have more detail on Graendal's comments about Aginor's extensive use of the True Power? Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:23:48 PM 1485 Views
Re: Do you have more detail on Graendal's comments about Aginor's extensive use of the True Power? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:52:07 PM 1619 Views
Very interesting. Another case of a character never utilised to his full potential in the series... Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:57:42 PM 1371 Views
True... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:02:59 PM 1369 Views
So there are 6 Forsaken left. Tom - 21/09/2010 10:23:22 PM 1678 Views
For the record Heiko - 21/09/2010 10:53:16 PM 1568 Views
She opened two Gateways, IIRC BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:58:29 PM 1457 Views
Re: She opened two Gateways, IIRC Heiko - 22/09/2010 02:21:47 AM 1489 Views
I am so glad Graendal is alive. I (& hopefully other "Graendal's Alive" supporters) feel vindicated. *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 03:01:07 AM 1089 Views
Did anyone else feel that the Graendal scene was one big infodump? Marshall - 22/09/2010 03:32:44 AM 1598 Views
That's exactly what I was thinking the entire time. It didn't ruin my enjoyment though. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:12:00 PM 1465 Views
Wait...so NO ONE has wanted to discuss the Sapphic scene at Graendal's place? Tom - 22/09/2010 03:48:36 AM 1622 Views
yes, totally Lesbian. *NM* darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:04:16 PM 968 Views
No, the other L word. "LesbiAHNS?" *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 04:18:55 PM 1024 Views
Yes, it was totally lesbian. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:09:19 PM 1424 Views
No, not at all. Aran'gar is still a dude at heart. I think. *NM* BlackAdder - 22/09/2010 08:18:55 PM 990 Views
I tend to agree Sidious - 23/09/2010 05:42:52 PM 1431 Views
Lady parts + Lady parts = Lesbian sex darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 11:24:36 PM 2045 Views
Yes, but its still a little off Sidious - 25/09/2010 09:40:16 AM 1479 Views
Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 04:41:33 PM 1626 Views
Re: Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose Sidious - 25/09/2010 05:25:10 PM 1531 Views
What does Graendal think of Rand? Sidious - 22/09/2010 02:00:28 PM 1600 Views
She was really surprised and scared. Rurouni_Kenshin - 22/09/2010 02:11:28 PM 1560 Views
I take it you haven't read the Prologue. Tom - 22/09/2010 02:16:49 PM 1442 Views
Quite a bit... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 02:31:14 PM 1602 Views
Agreed, she's been worrying about him since the begining darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:18:48 PM 1635 Views
Thanks for the answers *NM* Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:46:05 PM 929 Views
Second best prologue ever... lilltempest - 22/09/2010 06:24:44 PM 1827 Views
It's my favorite ever. Only one dark spot tarnished it. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:18:12 PM 1473 Views
Yeah, tEotW is the best... BlackAdder - 22/09/2010 08:22:12 PM 1501 Views
Aran'gar is a tool Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:31:36 PM 1638 Views
I would think this argues against your contention that she would hold saidin to the max... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:36:09 PM 1425 Views
Re: I would think this argues against your contention that she would hold saidin to the max... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:51:53 PM 1373 Views
Remembering the last time male channelers held reversed weaves in the presence of Rand's party... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:55:12 PM 1320 Views
Yes. s/He was. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/09/2010 08:59:16 PM 1473 Views
Shadow invading Kandor and Lan riding trough it. CONNECTION? 4th Dimension - 22/09/2010 08:36:05 PM 1632 Views
Are Fain's resurrected trollocks undead? RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 01:43:01 AM 1490 Views
After 13 books you still can't spell "trollocs"...wow...that's just...wow... *NM* Tom - 23/09/2010 03:41:24 PM 981 Views
Thanks for taking up space on this board to point out my shortcomings. Always appreciated. *NM* RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 05:23:19 PM 953 Views
Sidious - 23/09/2010 04:47:11 PM 1538 Views
Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO Etzel - 23/09/2010 05:45:41 PM 1564 Views
Re: Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO Sidious - 23/09/2010 09:54:33 PM 1529 Views
Well, that is one prediction I made correctly! Etzel would find a way to make it look like Slayer darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 05:43:20 PM 1580 Views
I believe that Sanderson concocted the entire Graendal/Rand/Balefire part Marshall - 23/09/2010 10:24:46 PM 2177 Views
I had a similar thought, but... RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 10:40:58 PM 1484 Views
Probably not Sanderson 4th Dimension - 23/09/2010 11:11:54 PM 1519 Views
No way Rurouni_Kenshin - 24/09/2010 07:14:35 AM 1446 Views
I can't see team Jordan allowing any deviation on what RJ would have laid out darius_sedai - 12/10/2010 08:32:50 PM 1593 Views
I agree. *NM* Etzel - 25/09/2010 09:42:46 AM 975 Views
A few nits Terez - 12/10/2010 10:21:27 AM 1445 Views
Canadian Download site alanna aes sedai - 29/09/2010 12:05:12 AM 1944 Views
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