Active Users:750 Time:03/04/2025 09:21:12 AM
The way it reads she is holding open a Gateway, then slams shields on both darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 22/09/2010 07:08:17 PM

My point here is that Aran'gar should be far too strong for Graendal to cut off so easily, especially since she is splitting her flows. One "gasp" from Aran'gar is not IMO sufficient evidence to conclusively prove that she was already holding saidin when the shield was put on her. We'll never know either way unless someone asks the author ... and if he agrees with you I'd love to hear him explain how Graendal managed such an impressive feat of channeling.


What do you base this on? Clearly its all about strength because Aran'gar was just standing there. But we've seen channelers of high and equal strength shield each other without too much effort. In fact, Talaan shields Nynaeve with no strain at all despite Nynaeve's efforts. I really don't understand your contention. Graendal only needs to be as strong as Aran'gar to pull this off, and that is a real possibility.


I agree that one on one Graendal could shield Aran'gar.


I admit I haven't read the Prologue (and can't), but are you completely sure that Graendal split her flows, because then I would consider it a stretch unless her angreal has some serious power behind it. Myself I think she did it sequentially but so quickly that it appeared to be a single move.


Delana and Aran'gar, then wraps them in flows of air, then leaps through the Gateway ... I'll type out the text for you:

Go. She had to go.
She opened a new gateway. Aran'gar turned, starting through the walls in the direction of al'Thor. "So much power! What is he doing?"

Aran'gar. She and Delana had made the weaves of Compulsion.

Al'Thor must think Graendal dead. if he destroyed the place and those Compulsions remained, al'Thor would know that he'd missed and that Graendal lived.

Graendal formed two shields and slammed them into place, one for Aran'gar and one for Delana. The women gasped. Graendal tied off the weaves and bound the two in Air."


thoughts?
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
Reply to message
Towers of Midnight : Prologue discussion - 21/09/2010 04:38:40 AM 8506 Views
Me Too! Guess who is alive!! - 21/09/2010 04:44:40 AM 2247 Views
A dove, that's weird - 21/09/2010 03:19:10 PM 1992 Views
Re: A dove, that's weird - 21/09/2010 03:26:39 PM 1946 Views
Yes, that's the point - 21/09/2010 11:49:00 PM 1791 Views
It did feel a bit deus ex machina - 22/09/2010 12:03:05 AM 1913 Views
Fain is as creepy as ever - 21/09/2010 05:06:35 AM 2031 Views
You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) *NM* - 21/09/2010 05:10:47 AM 1246 Views
Re: You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) - 21/09/2010 05:14:26 AM 2111 Views
It's D/L on B&N now *NM* - 21/09/2010 05:15:44 AM 1143 Views
Anyone find the audiobook version? *NM* - 21/09/2010 10:20:22 AM 1123 Views
I love the borderlanders - 21/09/2010 05:25:29 AM 1981 Views
Best scene of the prologue *NM* - 21/09/2010 03:28:28 PM 1199 Views
Could somebody post a link to where they got it? I want to go to a site where I can download now *NM* - 21/09/2010 05:39:13 AM 1112 Views
I posted some links here - 21/09/2010 06:04:38 AM 1834 Views
My quick summary - 21/09/2010 06:02:41 AM 2617 Views
Whoa, whoa, whoa. - 23/09/2010 02:59:37 AM 1705 Views
It's good, but... Perrin. Ugh. - 21/09/2010 07:37:43 AM 2026 Views
Awesome! - 21/09/2010 09:00:45 AM 1785 Views
Regarding Graendal - 21/09/2010 10:12:42 AM 2287 Views
Some things... - 21/09/2010 01:18:10 PM 1832 Views
I'm glad. Being right is a good feeling - 21/09/2010 04:12:08 PM 1802 Views
a very weak angreal - 21/09/2010 04:55:15 PM 1794 Views
Even a weak angreal - 21/09/2010 05:47:26 PM 1743 Views
The Angreal Elayne mentions made her 2x as strong as Nynaeve - 21/09/2010 06:04:21 PM 1628 Views
The laughter in Perrin's Dream - 21/09/2010 02:24:14 PM 1864 Views
Probably Slayer - 21/09/2010 04:29:41 PM 1751 Views
Re: Probably Slayer - 21/09/2010 04:39:36 PM 1555 Views
Audio Book - 21/09/2010 06:39:54 PM 1692 Views
Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... - 21/09/2010 06:46:42 PM 1896 Views
It's different (I think?) but I'm certainly no expert and I'm sure someone else will reply - 21/09/2010 06:57:18 PM 1809 Views
OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not - 21/09/2010 07:00:23 PM 1614 Views
Re: OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not. - 21/09/2010 07:11:42 PM 1734 Views
Thanks. Was Arangar channeling at the time? - 21/09/2010 07:13:53 PM 1709 Views
I think so, yes. - 21/09/2010 07:15:44 PM 1658 Views
I don't think so actually - 21/09/2010 07:57:42 PM 1732 Views
I don't think Aran'gar was channeling - 21/09/2010 11:00:22 PM 1672 Views
I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd *NM* - 21/09/2010 11:52:01 PM 970 Views
no she wasn't *NM* - 21/09/2010 10:25:13 PM 1078 Views
nope, no power - 23/09/2010 03:05:30 AM 1570 Views
So here's what happens... - 21/09/2010 07:15:03 PM 2100 Views
Thanks. A few comments... - 21/09/2010 07:27:33 PM 1579 Views
I don't rule out the angreal... - 21/09/2010 07:32:40 PM 1599 Views
Elayne's weakest angreal doubles her strength. Graendal x2 can easily shield Cyndane+Moggy, so... - 21/09/2010 07:35:06 PM 1742 Views
Graendal's seemed much weaker... - 21/09/2010 07:52:20 PM 1596 Views
Elayne also called the x2 turtle angreal "weak"... - 21/09/2010 08:00:01 PM 1625 Views
and we know it wasn't enough to overwhlem Verin's circle - 21/09/2010 08:02:13 PM 1455 Views
I disasgree. There is no evidence that Aran'gar was holding saidin at the time - 21/09/2010 07:42:23 PM 1560 Views
Then why did she gasp at the shield? She couldn't have known what Graendal was weaving. - 21/09/2010 07:52:49 PM 1599 Views
because she was surprised that Graendal would put a shield on her in the first place - 21/09/2010 07:58:45 PM 1621 Views
How did she know there was a shield? - 21/09/2010 09:16:59 PM 1567 Views
Fact: Graendal cannot shield a male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai if they are holding the Source... - 21/09/2010 09:28:17 PM 1547 Views
Who said "they"? - 21/09/2010 09:55:28 PM 1543 Views
I really don't think you have to be holding the source to know you've been shielded - 21/09/2010 10:29:20 PM 1502 Views
Provide evidence? - 21/09/2010 10:36:36 PM 1547 Views
Thanks, but like I said, they were both wrapped in air. That's enough for Aran'gar to wonder - 21/09/2010 10:44:17 PM 1470 Views
They gasped before Graendal wove Air... - 21/09/2010 11:13:48 PM 1552 Views
Alright, you win *NM* - 22/09/2010 02:51:26 AM 1019 Views
*NM* - 22/09/2010 03:06:22 AM 876 Views
Siuan was distracted by a number of other things going on, not to mention how suspect - 22/09/2010 02:43:36 PM 1462 Views
And Aran'gar was fully focussed on Graendal? - 22/09/2010 03:02:16 PM 1689 Views
More so than Siuan was on Elaida when they were shielded. - 22/09/2010 03:33:15 PM 2476 Views
So? - 22/09/2010 03:48:11 PM 1388 Views
It doesn't matter. There are more Shieldings that go unnoticed when not holding the Source - 22/09/2010 03:55:48 PM 1471 Views
Nice catches! - 22/09/2010 04:06:52 PM 1596 Views
we don't know that - 22/09/2010 02:35:50 PM 1534 Views
Huh? - 22/09/2010 03:03:52 PM 1474 Views
Give over, Darius... there's plenty of evidence... - 22/09/2010 03:45:11 PM 1518 Views
Give over what? There is no hard evidence that Aran'gar wouldn't notice a shield put on her - 22/09/2010 05:00:11 PM 1419 Views
What rot... (also, Egwene and Rand) - 22/09/2010 05:21:08 PM 1535 Views
take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. - 22/09/2010 05:38:21 PM 1509 Views
Re: take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. - 22/09/2010 05:45:05 PM 1646 Views
if it was JUST one shield ... but she's shielding an AS and weaving a Gateway too! - 22/09/2010 05:48:52 PM 3549 Views
Well... - 22/09/2010 07:00:26 PM 1572 Views
She says... - 22/09/2010 07:04:32 PM 1572 Views
no one is arguing that - 22/09/2010 07:09:17 PM 1518 Views
Er... - 22/09/2010 07:19:09 PM 1471 Views
I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded - 22/09/2010 07:20:48 PM 2304 Views
Re: I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded - 22/09/2010 07:26:52 PM 2271 Views
Again, I just find that option completely unlikely since Graendals angreal isn't all that strong - 22/09/2010 07:39:02 PM 1537 Views
You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. - 23/09/2010 01:53:25 AM 1606 Views
Re: You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. - 23/09/2010 03:42:31 PM 1512 Views
- 23/09/2010 03:54:02 PM 1511 Views
Re: . The evidence is that no channeled is that strong! - 23/09/2010 04:04:02 PM 1639 Views
Really? - 23/09/2010 06:11:00 PM 1594 Views
Re: Really? - 23/09/2010 09:56:09 PM 1463 Views
That's my point *NM* - 24/09/2010 12:20:45 AM 1012 Views
Dear God! The sheer amount of replies here just blew my mind, and my window (jk). *NM* - 24/09/2010 07:28:14 PM 1038 Views
Y o u' r e h u r t i n g m y s c r o l l b a r *NM* - 24/09/2010 11:30:27 PM 1016 Views
Re: She says... - 22/09/2010 07:12:48 PM 1521 Views
Exactly. - 23/09/2010 01:54:05 AM 1499 Views
The way it reads she is holding open a Gateway, then slams shields on both - 22/09/2010 07:08:17 PM 1482 Views
Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 05:46:19 PM 1595 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 05:53:05 PM 1466 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 07:03:02 PM 1467 Views
Nope - 22/09/2010 07:19:30 PM 1364 Views
Re: Nope - 23/09/2010 02:06:35 AM 1520 Views
Toveine! Now THAT is a good catch, fionwe! - 23/09/2010 07:57:05 AM 1643 Views
Sidious pointed it out, actually. But thanks! - 23/09/2010 03:55:29 PM 1522 Views
And you ignore all the evidence in the series that definitively makes it impossible for Graendal to - 23/09/2010 03:57:49 PM 1403 Views
Well... - 23/09/2010 04:31:27 PM 1583 Views
According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal - 24/09/2010 11:18:30 PM 1725 Views
Re: According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal - 25/09/2010 09:38:41 AM 1571 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 24/09/2010 03:20:49 AM 1688 Views
Oh come on.. be real - 22/09/2010 05:39:51 PM 1481 Views
see that's an argument that makes more sense to me - 22/09/2010 05:47:17 PM 1561 Views
Re: How did she know there was a shield? - 24/09/2010 04:42:25 AM 1508 Views
You'[re missing the part about the bonds of air as well - 21/09/2010 11:06:04 PM 1492 Views
No. The sequence was shield-gasp-tie off shield-wrap in Air. *NM* - 21/09/2010 11:14:41 PM 1056 Views
We have seen people holding the source caught off guard by a shield *NM* - 22/09/2010 12:10:48 AM 1010 Views
Well, exactly! - 22/09/2010 02:01:12 AM 1558 Views
What I think happened - 22/09/2010 09:19:57 AM 1508 Views
It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... - 22/09/2010 10:06:47 AM 1482 Views
Re: It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... - 22/09/2010 01:31:52 PM 1566 Views
Fair point. - 22/09/2010 02:07:05 PM 1539 Views
I think it also bears mentioning that ... - 22/09/2010 04:17:17 PM 1561 Views
Graendal knew Aran'gar was distracted - 23/09/2010 07:10:52 AM 1482 Views
About shielding a channeler holding the Source... - 22/09/2010 05:51:34 PM 2592 Views
Re: About shielding a channeler holding the Source... - 22/09/2010 07:04:37 PM 3022 Views
The angreal makes this an unnecessary debate... - 22/09/2010 07:09:20 PM 1473 Views
she never shielded them - 22/09/2010 07:22:29 PM 1481 Views
True...But it made her strong enough to easily overcome both... - 22/09/2010 07:28:12 PM 1431 Views
This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned - 22/09/2010 07:51:19 PM 1537 Views
Re: This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned - 22/09/2010 07:54:18 PM 1487 Views
LMAO... nice! - 22/09/2010 08:24:20 PM 1503 Views
I think we need to place Aran'gar lower too.. - 22/09/2010 07:10:29 PM 1576 Views
A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... - 22/09/2010 07:13:51 PM 1410 Views
I would agree - 22/09/2010 07:22:50 PM 1561 Views
Re: I would agree - 22/09/2010 07:25:46 PM 1413 Views
Re: A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... - 23/09/2010 03:03:26 AM 1488 Views
Mostly agree - 22/09/2010 07:23:53 PM 1483 Views
Re: Mostly agree - 22/09/2010 07:28:42 PM 1431 Views
I am starting to believe that RJ didn't think quite so literally - 22/09/2010 08:07:45 PM 1495 Views
Not sure if you agreed with this before, but I reached this point awhile ago bwahaha - 22/09/2010 08:53:42 PM 1528 Views
I've been on this side for a good long while - 22/09/2010 09:40:43 PM 1625 Views
*NM* - 28/09/2010 11:54:54 PM 974 Views
Well there is one thing to consider about this - 21/09/2010 07:32:44 PM 1744 Views
So there are 6 Forsaken left. - 21/09/2010 10:23:22 PM 1783 Views
For the record - 21/09/2010 10:53:16 PM 1669 Views
She opened two Gateways, IIRC - 21/09/2010 11:58:29 PM 1555 Views
Re: She opened two Gateways, IIRC - 22/09/2010 02:21:47 AM 1602 Views
Wait...so NO ONE has wanted to discuss the Sapphic scene at Graendal's place? - 22/09/2010 03:48:36 AM 1735 Views
yes, totally Lesbian. *NM* - 22/09/2010 03:04:16 PM 1019 Views
No, the other L word. "LesbiAHNS?" *NM* - 22/09/2010 04:18:55 PM 1076 Views
Yes, it was totally lesbian. - 22/09/2010 07:09:19 PM 1504 Views
No, not at all. Aran'gar is still a dude at heart. I think. *NM* - 22/09/2010 08:18:55 PM 1032 Views
I tend to agree - 23/09/2010 05:42:52 PM 1526 Views
Lady parts + Lady parts = Lesbian sex - 24/09/2010 11:24:36 PM 2146 Views
Yes, but its still a little off - 25/09/2010 09:40:16 AM 1577 Views
Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose - 25/09/2010 04:41:33 PM 1732 Views
Re: Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose - 25/09/2010 05:25:10 PM 1650 Views
What does Graendal think of Rand? - 22/09/2010 02:00:28 PM 1702 Views
She was really surprised and scared. - 22/09/2010 02:11:28 PM 1670 Views
I take it you haven't read the Prologue. - 22/09/2010 02:16:49 PM 1544 Views
Quite a bit... - 22/09/2010 02:31:14 PM 1708 Views
Agreed, she's been worrying about him since the begining - 22/09/2010 03:18:48 PM 1745 Views
Thanks for the answers *NM* - 22/09/2010 05:46:05 PM 984 Views
Second best prologue ever... - 22/09/2010 06:24:44 PM 1942 Views
It's my favorite ever. Only one dark spot tarnished it. - 22/09/2010 07:18:12 PM 1577 Views
Yeah, tEotW is the best... - 22/09/2010 08:22:12 PM 1599 Views
Aran'gar is a tool - 22/09/2010 07:31:36 PM 1740 Views
Yes. s/He was. - 22/09/2010 08:59:16 PM 1577 Views
Shadow invading Kandor and Lan riding trough it. CONNECTION? - 22/09/2010 08:36:05 PM 1747 Views
- 23/09/2010 04:47:11 PM 1652 Views
Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO - 23/09/2010 05:45:41 PM 1671 Views
Re: Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO - 23/09/2010 09:54:33 PM 1623 Views
I believe that Sanderson concocted the entire Graendal/Rand/Balefire part - 23/09/2010 10:24:46 PM 2301 Views
I had a similar thought, but... - 23/09/2010 10:40:58 PM 1583 Views
Probably not Sanderson - 23/09/2010 11:11:54 PM 1623 Views
No way - 24/09/2010 07:14:35 AM 1534 Views
I agree. *NM* - 25/09/2010 09:42:46 AM 1039 Views
A few nits - 12/10/2010 10:21:27 AM 1558 Views
Canadian Download site - 29/09/2010 12:05:12 AM 2057 Views

Reply to Message