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we don't know that darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 22/09/2010 02:35:50 PM
If she wasn't holding saidin, and a shield was placed on her, she would know about it only if she tried to reach for the source. But the way it is written, the reaction was clearly immediate. Graendal hadn't even begus weaving the bonds of Air before the women gasped. Delana knew there was a shield, so that explains her. But Aran'gar? Given the time frame, it seems Aran'gar was holding the source.

And I don't see that as contradictory to anything we know. Aran'gar was strong, but nothing indicates that Graendal wasn't stronger. To the contrary, in fact. Her being able to shield Aran'gar isn't all that impossible, though with a Gateway open and another shield to make might be a little difficult.


It's possible, even likely IMO, that you can feel a shield being placed on you even if you are not holding the Source. There is no evidence in the books to suggest otherwise.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Towers of Midnight : Prologue discussion fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 04:38:40 AM 8506 Views
Me Too! Guess who is alive!! PatAtt - 21/09/2010 04:44:40 AM 2247 Views
A dove, that's weird BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 03:19:10 PM 1992 Views
Re: A dove, that's weird Ryan - 21/09/2010 03:26:39 PM 1946 Views
Yes, that's the point BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:49:00 PM 1791 Views
It did feel a bit deus ex machina Ryan - 22/09/2010 12:03:05 AM 1913 Views
What Ryan said. And we only assumed that they can only use those animals *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 06:53:05 PM 1153 Views
Fain is as creepy as ever PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:06:35 AM 2031 Views
You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 05:10:47 AM 1246 Views
Re: You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:14:26 AM 2111 Views
It's D/L on B&N now *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 05:15:44 AM 1143 Views
Anyone find the audiobook version? *NM* Yuri - 21/09/2010 10:20:22 AM 1123 Views
If you're in the US, Audible.com. No clue about availability in the UK. *NM* RandAllThor - 21/09/2010 06:29:45 PM 1107 Views
I love the borderlanders PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:25:29 AM 1981 Views
Best scene of the prologue *NM* Ryan - 21/09/2010 03:28:28 PM 1199 Views
Could somebody post a link to where they got it? I want to go to a site where I can download now *NM* Guava - 21/09/2010 05:39:13 AM 1112 Views
I posted some links here PatAtt - 21/09/2010 06:04:38 AM 1834 Views
My quick summary PatAtt - 21/09/2010 06:02:41 AM 2617 Views
Whoa, whoa, whoa. DREWRULESWOT! - 23/09/2010 02:59:37 AM 1705 Views
It's good, but... Perrin. Ugh. Deadsy - 21/09/2010 07:37:43 AM 2026 Views
Awesome! Ryan - 21/09/2010 09:00:45 AM 1785 Views
Regarding Graendal Sidious - 21/09/2010 10:12:42 AM 2287 Views
Some things... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 01:18:10 PM 1832 Views
I'm glad. Being right is a good feeling RugbyPlayingAshaman - 21/09/2010 04:12:08 PM 1802 Views
a very weak angreal darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 04:55:15 PM 1794 Views
Even a weak angreal malekithe - 21/09/2010 05:47:26 PM 1743 Views
The Angreal Elayne mentions made her 2x as strong as Nynaeve darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 06:04:21 PM 1628 Views
Graendal watched Aran'gar get nuked. Aran'gar is gone gone gone. Tom - 21/09/2010 10:11:41 PM 1794 Views
The laughter in Perrin's Dream Syraelle - 21/09/2010 02:24:14 PM 1864 Views
Probably Slayer RugbyPlayingAshaman - 21/09/2010 04:29:41 PM 1751 Views
Re: Probably Slayer Syraelle - 21/09/2010 04:39:36 PM 1555 Views
Audio Book Matt_at_Heart - 21/09/2010 06:39:54 PM 1692 Views
Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... Shannow - 21/09/2010 06:46:42 PM 1896 Views
It's different (I think?) but I'm certainly no expert and I'm sure someone else will reply Deadsy - 21/09/2010 06:57:18 PM 1809 Views
OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:00:23 PM 1614 Views
Re: OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not. Deadsy - 21/09/2010 07:11:42 PM 1734 Views
Thanks. Was Arangar channeling at the time? Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:13:53 PM 1709 Views
I think so, yes. fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:15:44 PM 1658 Views
I don't think so actually darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:57:42 PM 1732 Views
I don't think Aran'gar was channeling Ryan - 21/09/2010 11:00:22 PM 1672 Views
I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd *NM* BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:52:01 PM 970 Views
Re: I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd Heiko - 22/09/2010 02:57:02 AM 1565 Views
no she wasn't *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:25:13 PM 1078 Views
nope, no power newyorkersedai - 23/09/2010 03:05:30 AM 1570 Views
So here's what happens... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:15:03 PM 2100 Views
Thanks. A few comments... Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:27:33 PM 1579 Views
I don't rule out the angreal... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:32:40 PM 1599 Views
Elayne's weakest angreal doubles her strength. Graendal x2 can easily shield Cyndane+Moggy, so... Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:35:06 PM 1742 Views
Graendal's seemed much weaker... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:52:20 PM 1596 Views
Elayne also called the x2 turtle angreal "weak"... Shannow - 21/09/2010 08:00:01 PM 1625 Views
and we know it wasn't enough to overwhlem Verin's circle darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 08:02:13 PM 1455 Views
I disasgree. There is no evidence that Aran'gar was holding saidin at the time darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:42:23 PM 1560 Views
Then why did she gasp at the shield? She couldn't have known what Graendal was weaving. fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:52:49 PM 1599 Views
because she was surprised that Graendal would put a shield on her in the first place darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:58:45 PM 1621 Views
How did she know there was a shield? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:16:59 PM 1567 Views
Fact: Graendal cannot shield a male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai if they are holding the Source... Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:28:17 PM 1547 Views
Who said "they"? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:55:28 PM 1543 Views
Depends on the level of surprise, I guess. If he was only holding a trickle of saidin, then maybe Shannow - 21/09/2010 10:05:37 PM 1595 Views
I don't think strength is the only determinant... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:24:24 PM 1562 Views
I really don't think you have to be holding the source to know you've been shielded Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:29:20 PM 1502 Views
Provide evidence? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:36:36 PM 1547 Views
Thanks, but like I said, they were both wrapped in air. That's enough for Aran'gar to wonder Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:44:17 PM 1470 Views
They gasped before Graendal wove Air... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 11:13:48 PM 1552 Views
Alright, you win *NM* Deadsy - 22/09/2010 02:51:26 AM 1019 Views
*NM* fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:06:22 AM 876 Views
Siuan was distracted by a number of other things going on, not to mention how suspect darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 02:43:36 PM 1462 Views
And Aran'gar was fully focussed on Graendal? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:02:16 PM 1689 Views
More so than Siuan was on Elaida when they were shielded. darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:33:15 PM 2476 Views
So? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:48:11 PM 1388 Views
It doesn't matter. There are more Shieldings that go unnoticed when not holding the Source Mik - 22/09/2010 03:55:48 PM 1471 Views
Nice catches! fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 04:06:52 PM 1596 Views
we don't know that darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 02:35:50 PM 1534 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:03:52 PM 1474 Views
Give over, Darius... there's plenty of evidence... Mik - 22/09/2010 03:45:11 PM 1518 Views
Give over what? There is no hard evidence that Aran'gar wouldn't notice a shield put on her darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:00:11 PM 1419 Views
What rot... (also, Egwene and Rand) fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 05:21:08 PM 1535 Views
take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:38:21 PM 1509 Views
Re: take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:45:05 PM 1646 Views
if it was JUST one shield ... but she's shielding an AS and weaving a Gateway too! darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:48:52 PM 3549 Views
Well... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:00:26 PM 1572 Views
She says... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:04:32 PM 1572 Views
no one is arguing that darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:09:17 PM 1518 Views
Er... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:19:09 PM 1471 Views
I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:20:48 PM 2304 Views
Re: I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:26:52 PM 2271 Views
Again, I just find that option completely unlikely since Graendals angreal isn't all that strong darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:39:02 PM 1537 Views
You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 01:53:25 AM 1606 Views
Re: You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 03:42:31 PM 1512 Views
fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:54:02 PM 1511 Views
Re: . The evidence is that no channeled is that strong! darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 04:04:02 PM 1639 Views
Really? fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 06:11:00 PM 1594 Views
Re: Really? Sidious - 23/09/2010 09:56:09 PM 1463 Views
That's my point *NM* darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 12:20:45 AM 1012 Views
Dear God! The sheer amount of replies here just blew my mind, and my window (jk). *NM* Bookwyrm - 24/09/2010 07:28:14 PM 1038 Views
Y o u' r e h u r t i n g m y s c r o l l b a r *NM* Marshall - 24/09/2010 11:30:27 PM 1016 Views
Re: She says... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:12:48 PM 1521 Views
Exactly. fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 01:54:05 AM 1499 Views
The way it reads she is holding open a Gateway, then slams shields on both darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:08:17 PM 1481 Views
Continue being irrational then... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 05:46:19 PM 1595 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:53:05 PM 1466 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:03:02 PM 1467 Views
Nope darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:19:30 PM 1364 Views
Re: Nope fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 02:06:35 AM 1520 Views
Toveine! Now THAT is a good catch, fionwe! Mik - 23/09/2010 07:57:05 AM 1643 Views
Sidious pointed it out, actually. But thanks! fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:55:29 PM 1522 Views
And you ignore all the evidence in the series that definitively makes it impossible for Graendal to darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 03:57:49 PM 1403 Views
Well... Sidious - 23/09/2010 04:31:27 PM 1583 Views
According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 11:18:30 PM 1725 Views
Re: According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal Sidious - 25/09/2010 09:38:41 AM 1571 Views
Possible, but he specifically calls out when she ties off other weaves in the scene darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 04:28:48 PM 1568 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... iHeartGraendal - 24/09/2010 03:20:49 AM 1688 Views
Oh come on.. be real Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:39:51 PM 1481 Views
see that's an argument that makes more sense to me darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:47:17 PM 1561 Views
Re: How did she know there was a shield? Gee69 - 24/09/2010 04:42:25 AM 1508 Views
You can sense the source when shielded. Entering a stedding you can't even sense it. *NM* Myrdhyn - 24/09/2010 02:46:09 PM 1122 Views
You'[re missing the part about the bonds of air as well Ryan - 21/09/2010 11:06:04 PM 1492 Views
No. The sequence was shield-gasp-tie off shield-wrap in Air. *NM* fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 11:14:41 PM 1056 Views
We have seen people holding the source caught off guard by a shield *NM* Ryan - 22/09/2010 12:10:48 AM 1010 Views
Well, exactly! fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 02:01:12 AM 1558 Views
Aran'gar and Delana were caught with their pants down by Graendal Ryan - 22/09/2010 06:40:41 AM 1783 Views
What I think happened Sidious - 22/09/2010 09:19:57 AM 1508 Views
It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... Shannow - 22/09/2010 10:06:47 AM 1482 Views
Re: It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... Sidious - 22/09/2010 01:31:52 PM 1566 Views
Fair point. Shannow - 22/09/2010 02:07:05 PM 1539 Views
I think it also bears mentioning that ... Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 04:17:17 PM 1561 Views
Graendal knew Aran'gar was distracted malekithe - 23/09/2010 07:10:52 AM 1482 Views
About shielding a channeler holding the Source... lilltempest - 22/09/2010 05:51:34 PM 2592 Views
Re: About shielding a channeler holding the Source... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:04:37 PM 3022 Views
The angreal makes this an unnecessary debate... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:09:20 PM 1473 Views
she never shielded them darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:22:29 PM 1481 Views
True...But it made her strong enough to easily overcome both... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:28:12 PM 1431 Views
This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:51:19 PM 1537 Views
Re: This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:54:18 PM 1487 Views
LMAO... nice! darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 08:24:20 PM 1503 Views
I think we need to place Aran'gar lower too.. fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:10:29 PM 1576 Views
A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:13:51 PM 1410 Views
I would agree Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:22:50 PM 1561 Views
Re: I would agree darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:25:46 PM 1413 Views
Re: A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:03:26 AM 1488 Views
Mostly agree darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:23:53 PM 1483 Views
Re: Mostly agree Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:28:42 PM 1431 Views
Ever wonder why Graendal was given an angreal in the first place... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:34:21 PM 1543 Views
Re: Ever wonder why Graendal was given an angreal in the first place... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:50:55 PM 1604 Views
I am starting to believe that RJ didn't think quite so literally darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 08:07:45 PM 1495 Views
Not sure if you agreed with this before, but I reached this point awhile ago bwahaha RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/09/2010 08:53:42 PM 1528 Views
I've been on this side for a good long while darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 09:40:43 PM 1625 Views
*NM* alanna aes sedai - 28/09/2010 11:54:54 PM 974 Views
Well there is one thing to consider about this darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:32:44 PM 1744 Views
Yes, that seems the most likely answer. That and the use of the angreal. Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:35:53 PM 1608 Views
Aren't female channelers more dexterous in weaving than male? So her speed could be part of that. *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 03:42:56 AM 984 Views
Re: Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... The Angry Druid - 01/10/2010 12:23:57 AM 1519 Views
I'm disappointed that the dove was not hidden in a background description in the tGS scene... Shannow - 21/09/2010 08:22:29 PM 1622 Views
I was thinking the same thing ... was actually just about to go look for it myself! darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 09:01:34 PM 1623 Views
I'm happy there wasn't... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:18:30 PM 1640 Views
Do you have more detail on Graendal's comments about Aginor's extensive use of the True Power? Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:23:48 PM 1579 Views
Re: Do you have more detail on Graendal's comments about Aginor's extensive use of the True Power? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:52:07 PM 1708 Views
Very interesting. Another case of a character never utilised to his full potential in the series... Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:57:42 PM 1463 Views
True... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:02:59 PM 1463 Views
So there are 6 Forsaken left. Tom - 21/09/2010 10:23:22 PM 1783 Views
For the record Heiko - 21/09/2010 10:53:16 PM 1669 Views
She opened two Gateways, IIRC BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:58:29 PM 1555 Views
Re: She opened two Gateways, IIRC Heiko - 22/09/2010 02:21:47 AM 1602 Views
I am so glad Graendal is alive. I (& hopefully other "Graendal's Alive" supporters) feel vindicated. *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 03:01:07 AM 1129 Views
Did anyone else feel that the Graendal scene was one big infodump? Marshall - 22/09/2010 03:32:44 AM 1686 Views
That's exactly what I was thinking the entire time. It didn't ruin my enjoyment though. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:12:00 PM 1565 Views
Wait...so NO ONE has wanted to discuss the Sapphic scene at Graendal's place? Tom - 22/09/2010 03:48:36 AM 1735 Views
yes, totally Lesbian. *NM* darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:04:16 PM 1019 Views
No, the other L word. "LesbiAHNS?" *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 04:18:55 PM 1076 Views
Yes, it was totally lesbian. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:09:19 PM 1504 Views
No, not at all. Aran'gar is still a dude at heart. I think. *NM* BlackAdder - 22/09/2010 08:18:55 PM 1032 Views
I tend to agree Sidious - 23/09/2010 05:42:52 PM 1526 Views
Lady parts + Lady parts = Lesbian sex darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 11:24:36 PM 2146 Views
Yes, but its still a little off Sidious - 25/09/2010 09:40:16 AM 1577 Views
Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 04:41:33 PM 1732 Views
Re: Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose Sidious - 25/09/2010 05:25:10 PM 1650 Views
What does Graendal think of Rand? Sidious - 22/09/2010 02:00:28 PM 1702 Views
She was really surprised and scared. Rurouni_Kenshin - 22/09/2010 02:11:28 PM 1670 Views
I take it you haven't read the Prologue. Tom - 22/09/2010 02:16:49 PM 1544 Views
Quite a bit... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 02:31:14 PM 1708 Views
Agreed, she's been worrying about him since the begining darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:18:48 PM 1745 Views
Thanks for the answers *NM* Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:46:05 PM 984 Views
Second best prologue ever... lilltempest - 22/09/2010 06:24:44 PM 1941 Views
It's my favorite ever. Only one dark spot tarnished it. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:18:12 PM 1577 Views
Yeah, tEotW is the best... BlackAdder - 22/09/2010 08:22:12 PM 1599 Views
Aran'gar is a tool Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:31:36 PM 1739 Views
I would think this argues against your contention that she would hold saidin to the max... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:36:09 PM 1525 Views
Re: I would think this argues against your contention that she would hold saidin to the max... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:51:53 PM 1470 Views
Remembering the last time male channelers held reversed weaves in the presence of Rand's party... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:55:12 PM 1420 Views
Yes. s/He was. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/09/2010 08:59:16 PM 1577 Views
Shadow invading Kandor and Lan riding trough it. CONNECTION? 4th Dimension - 22/09/2010 08:36:05 PM 1747 Views
Are Fain's resurrected trollocks undead? RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 01:43:01 AM 1586 Views
After 13 books you still can't spell "trollocs"...wow...that's just...wow... *NM* Tom - 23/09/2010 03:41:24 PM 1027 Views
Thanks for taking up space on this board to point out my shortcomings. Always appreciated. *NM* RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 05:23:19 PM 998 Views
Sidious - 23/09/2010 04:47:11 PM 1652 Views
Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO Etzel - 23/09/2010 05:45:41 PM 1671 Views
Re: Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO Sidious - 23/09/2010 09:54:33 PM 1623 Views
Well, that is one prediction I made correctly! Etzel would find a way to make it look like Slayer darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 05:43:20 PM 1693 Views
I believe that Sanderson concocted the entire Graendal/Rand/Balefire part Marshall - 23/09/2010 10:24:46 PM 2301 Views
I had a similar thought, but... RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 10:40:58 PM 1583 Views
Probably not Sanderson 4th Dimension - 23/09/2010 11:11:54 PM 1623 Views
No way Rurouni_Kenshin - 24/09/2010 07:14:35 AM 1534 Views
I can't see team Jordan allowing any deviation on what RJ would have laid out darius_sedai - 12/10/2010 08:32:50 PM 1707 Views
I agree. *NM* Etzel - 25/09/2010 09:42:46 AM 1039 Views
A few nits Terez - 12/10/2010 10:21:27 AM 1558 Views
Canadian Download site alanna aes sedai - 29/09/2010 12:05:12 AM 2057 Views
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