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Depends on the level of surprise, I guess. If he was only holding a trickle of saidin, then maybe Shannow Send a noteboard - 21/09/2010 10:05:37 PM

No one can do that unaided. Not even Rand. Rand cannot even shield a single male Forsaken in a direct attempt if the Forsaken is already holding the Source. He would have to overcome him in a One Power battle first, or else engage in a duel of Spirit of unknown duration (like Nynaeve and Moghedien, Rand and Lanfear or Nynaeve and Talaan).

The examples you give had both channelers ready for a conflict. Here, Aran'gar was completely caught by surprise. That may have made the difference.

And I seriously doubt that Rand can't do the same. Should he just strike out with a shield at an unsuspecting Foresaken, he'd have them shielded with ease. Lanfear herself shielded Rand in tSR, and Rand was holding the source, and nor was he completely weak, since later in that book he matched Asmodean.

There is no way that Graendal could have shielded Arangar unaided if Arangar was already holding the Source, let alone shield Arangar and an Aes Sedai simultaneously.

Nothing says that Graendal isn't strong enough to shield Aran'gar. She was the second strongest woman, whereas Aran'gar was strong, but not at the upper echelons among men.


The more you hold, the more difficult it is to shield you. So if he held only a tiny trickle - small enough that Rand would not sense it on the hill above - then maybe she could. But then, so could Arangar shield Graendal if she was only holding a trickle of saidar, and had her back turned to him. It goes both ways.

So it doesn't really tell us anything about their comparative strengths, if that's what you're trying to get at.
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Towers of Midnight : Prologue discussion fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 04:38:40 AM 8413 Views
Me Too! Guess who is alive!! PatAtt - 21/09/2010 04:44:40 AM 2158 Views
A dove, that's weird BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 03:19:10 PM 1902 Views
Re: A dove, that's weird Ryan - 21/09/2010 03:26:39 PM 1851 Views
Yes, that's the point BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:49:00 PM 1701 Views
It did feel a bit deus ex machina Ryan - 22/09/2010 12:03:05 AM 1813 Views
What Ryan said. And we only assumed that they can only use those animals *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 06:53:05 PM 1118 Views
Fain is as creepy as ever PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:06:35 AM 1926 Views
You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 05:10:47 AM 1206 Views
Re: You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:14:26 AM 2019 Views
It's D/L on B&N now *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 05:15:44 AM 1105 Views
Anyone find the audiobook version? *NM* Yuri - 21/09/2010 10:20:22 AM 1075 Views
If you're in the US, Audible.com. No clue about availability in the UK. *NM* RandAllThor - 21/09/2010 06:29:45 PM 1070 Views
I love the borderlanders PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:25:29 AM 1884 Views
Best scene of the prologue *NM* Ryan - 21/09/2010 03:28:28 PM 1155 Views
Could somebody post a link to where they got it? I want to go to a site where I can download now *NM* Guava - 21/09/2010 05:39:13 AM 1068 Views
I posted some links here PatAtt - 21/09/2010 06:04:38 AM 1754 Views
My quick summary PatAtt - 21/09/2010 06:02:41 AM 2526 Views
Whoa, whoa, whoa. DREWRULESWOT! - 23/09/2010 02:59:37 AM 1600 Views
It's good, but... Perrin. Ugh. Deadsy - 21/09/2010 07:37:43 AM 1933 Views
Awesome! Ryan - 21/09/2010 09:00:45 AM 1698 Views
Regarding Graendal Sidious - 21/09/2010 10:12:42 AM 2197 Views
Some things... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 01:18:10 PM 1769 Views
I'm glad. Being right is a good feeling RugbyPlayingAshaman - 21/09/2010 04:12:08 PM 1714 Views
a very weak angreal darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 04:55:15 PM 1726 Views
Even a weak angreal malekithe - 21/09/2010 05:47:26 PM 1659 Views
The Angreal Elayne mentions made her 2x as strong as Nynaeve darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 06:04:21 PM 1533 Views
Graendal watched Aran'gar get nuked. Aran'gar is gone gone gone. Tom - 21/09/2010 10:11:41 PM 1705 Views
The laughter in Perrin's Dream Syraelle - 21/09/2010 02:24:14 PM 1786 Views
Probably Slayer RugbyPlayingAshaman - 21/09/2010 04:29:41 PM 1657 Views
Re: Probably Slayer Syraelle - 21/09/2010 04:39:36 PM 1463 Views
Audio Book Matt_at_Heart - 21/09/2010 06:39:54 PM 1597 Views
Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... Shannow - 21/09/2010 06:46:42 PM 1803 Views
It's different (I think?) but I'm certainly no expert and I'm sure someone else will reply Deadsy - 21/09/2010 06:57:18 PM 1715 Views
OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:00:23 PM 1527 Views
Re: OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not. Deadsy - 21/09/2010 07:11:42 PM 1633 Views
Thanks. Was Arangar channeling at the time? Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:13:53 PM 1619 Views
I think so, yes. fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:15:44 PM 1559 Views
I don't think so actually darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:57:42 PM 1647 Views
I don't think Aran'gar was channeling Ryan - 21/09/2010 11:00:22 PM 1609 Views
I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd *NM* BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:52:01 PM 930 Views
Re: I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd Heiko - 22/09/2010 02:57:02 AM 1476 Views
no she wasn't *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:25:13 PM 1040 Views
nope, no power newyorkersedai - 23/09/2010 03:05:30 AM 1480 Views
So here's what happens... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:15:03 PM 1998 Views
Thanks. A few comments... Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:27:33 PM 1481 Views
I don't rule out the angreal... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:32:40 PM 1516 Views
Elayne's weakest angreal doubles her strength. Graendal x2 can easily shield Cyndane+Moggy, so... Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:35:06 PM 1648 Views
Graendal's seemed much weaker... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:52:20 PM 1517 Views
Elayne also called the x2 turtle angreal "weak"... Shannow - 21/09/2010 08:00:01 PM 1523 Views
and we know it wasn't enough to overwhlem Verin's circle darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 08:02:13 PM 1368 Views
I disasgree. There is no evidence that Aran'gar was holding saidin at the time darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:42:23 PM 1463 Views
Then why did she gasp at the shield? She couldn't have known what Graendal was weaving. fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:52:49 PM 1497 Views
because she was surprised that Graendal would put a shield on her in the first place darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:58:45 PM 1514 Views
How did she know there was a shield? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:16:59 PM 1472 Views
Fact: Graendal cannot shield a male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai if they are holding the Source... Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:28:17 PM 1467 Views
Who said "they"? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:55:28 PM 1442 Views
Depends on the level of surprise, I guess. If he was only holding a trickle of saidin, then maybe Shannow - 21/09/2010 10:05:37 PM 1505 Views
I don't think strength is the only determinant... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:24:24 PM 1469 Views
I really don't think you have to be holding the source to know you've been shielded Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:29:20 PM 1416 Views
Provide evidence? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:36:36 PM 1468 Views
Thanks, but like I said, they were both wrapped in air. That's enough for Aran'gar to wonder Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:44:17 PM 1379 Views
They gasped before Graendal wove Air... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 11:13:48 PM 1446 Views
Alright, you win *NM* Deadsy - 22/09/2010 02:51:26 AM 972 Views
*NM* fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:06:22 AM 839 Views
Siuan was distracted by a number of other things going on, not to mention how suspect darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 02:43:36 PM 1364 Views
And Aran'gar was fully focussed on Graendal? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:02:16 PM 1600 Views
More so than Siuan was on Elaida when they were shielded. darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:33:15 PM 2379 Views
So? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:48:11 PM 1304 Views
It doesn't matter. There are more Shieldings that go unnoticed when not holding the Source Mik - 22/09/2010 03:55:48 PM 1409 Views
Nice catches! fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 04:06:52 PM 1507 Views
we don't know that darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 02:35:50 PM 1445 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:03:52 PM 1385 Views
Give over, Darius... there's plenty of evidence... Mik - 22/09/2010 03:45:11 PM 1434 Views
Give over what? There is no hard evidence that Aran'gar wouldn't notice a shield put on her darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:00:11 PM 1343 Views
What rot... (also, Egwene and Rand) fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 05:21:08 PM 1450 Views
take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:38:21 PM 1428 Views
Re: take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:45:05 PM 1549 Views
if it was JUST one shield ... but she's shielding an AS and weaving a Gateway too! darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:48:52 PM 3467 Views
Well... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:00:26 PM 1482 Views
She says... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:04:32 PM 1483 Views
no one is arguing that darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:09:17 PM 1423 Views
Er... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:19:09 PM 1381 Views
I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:20:48 PM 2209 Views
Re: I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:26:52 PM 2178 Views
Again, I just find that option completely unlikely since Graendals angreal isn't all that strong darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:39:02 PM 1435 Views
You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 01:53:25 AM 1520 Views
Re: You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 03:42:31 PM 1420 Views
fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:54:02 PM 1422 Views
Re: . The evidence is that no channeled is that strong! darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 04:04:02 PM 1544 Views
Really? fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 06:11:00 PM 1504 Views
Re: Really? Sidious - 23/09/2010 09:56:09 PM 1373 Views
That's my point *NM* darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 12:20:45 AM 974 Views
Dear God! The sheer amount of replies here just blew my mind, and my window (jk). *NM* Bookwyrm - 24/09/2010 07:28:14 PM 995 Views
Y o u' r e h u r t i n g m y s c r o l l b a r *NM* Marshall - 24/09/2010 11:30:27 PM 990 Views
Re: She says... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:12:48 PM 1426 Views
Exactly. fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 01:54:05 AM 1414 Views
The way it reads she is holding open a Gateway, then slams shields on both darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:08:17 PM 1400 Views
Continue being irrational then... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 05:46:19 PM 1503 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:53:05 PM 1369 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:03:02 PM 1382 Views
Nope darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:19:30 PM 1280 Views
Re: Nope fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 02:06:35 AM 1438 Views
Toveine! Now THAT is a good catch, fionwe! Mik - 23/09/2010 07:57:05 AM 1546 Views
Sidious pointed it out, actually. But thanks! fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:55:29 PM 1422 Views
And you ignore all the evidence in the series that definitively makes it impossible for Graendal to darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 03:57:49 PM 1315 Views
Well... Sidious - 23/09/2010 04:31:27 PM 1496 Views
According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 11:18:30 PM 1629 Views
Re: According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal Sidious - 25/09/2010 09:38:41 AM 1479 Views
Possible, but he specifically calls out when she ties off other weaves in the scene darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 04:28:48 PM 1486 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... iHeartGraendal - 24/09/2010 03:20:49 AM 1595 Views
Oh come on.. be real Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:39:51 PM 1394 Views
see that's an argument that makes more sense to me darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:47:17 PM 1475 Views
Re: How did she know there was a shield? Gee69 - 24/09/2010 04:42:25 AM 1416 Views
You can sense the source when shielded. Entering a stedding you can't even sense it. *NM* Myrdhyn - 24/09/2010 02:46:09 PM 1082 Views
You'[re missing the part about the bonds of air as well Ryan - 21/09/2010 11:06:04 PM 1410 Views
No. The sequence was shield-gasp-tie off shield-wrap in Air. *NM* fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 11:14:41 PM 1017 Views
We have seen people holding the source caught off guard by a shield *NM* Ryan - 22/09/2010 12:10:48 AM 968 Views
Well, exactly! fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 02:01:12 AM 1470 Views
Aran'gar and Delana were caught with their pants down by Graendal Ryan - 22/09/2010 06:40:41 AM 1688 Views
What I think happened Sidious - 22/09/2010 09:19:57 AM 1439 Views
It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... Shannow - 22/09/2010 10:06:47 AM 1397 Views
Re: It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... Sidious - 22/09/2010 01:31:52 PM 1474 Views
Fair point. Shannow - 22/09/2010 02:07:05 PM 1459 Views
I think it also bears mentioning that ... Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 04:17:17 PM 1472 Views
Graendal knew Aran'gar was distracted malekithe - 23/09/2010 07:10:52 AM 1383 Views
About shielding a channeler holding the Source... lilltempest - 22/09/2010 05:51:34 PM 2490 Views
Re: About shielding a channeler holding the Source... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:04:37 PM 2930 Views
The angreal makes this an unnecessary debate... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:09:20 PM 1383 Views
she never shielded them darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:22:29 PM 1389 Views
True...But it made her strong enough to easily overcome both... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:28:12 PM 1340 Views
This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:51:19 PM 1441 Views
Re: This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:54:18 PM 1396 Views
LMAO... nice! darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 08:24:20 PM 1413 Views
I think we need to place Aran'gar lower too.. fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:10:29 PM 1477 Views
A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:13:51 PM 1319 Views
I would agree Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:22:50 PM 1468 Views
Re: I would agree darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:25:46 PM 1329 Views
Re: A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:03:26 AM 1402 Views
Mostly agree darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:23:53 PM 1387 Views
Re: Mostly agree Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:28:42 PM 1349 Views
Ever wonder why Graendal was given an angreal in the first place... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:34:21 PM 1451 Views
Re: Ever wonder why Graendal was given an angreal in the first place... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:50:55 PM 1495 Views
I am starting to believe that RJ didn't think quite so literally darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 08:07:45 PM 1406 Views
Not sure if you agreed with this before, but I reached this point awhile ago bwahaha RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/09/2010 08:53:42 PM 1440 Views
I've been on this side for a good long while darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 09:40:43 PM 1535 Views
*NM* alanna aes sedai - 28/09/2010 11:54:54 PM 928 Views
Well there is one thing to consider about this darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:32:44 PM 1651 Views
Yes, that seems the most likely answer. That and the use of the angreal. Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:35:53 PM 1534 Views
Aren't female channelers more dexterous in weaving than male? So her speed could be part of that. *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 03:42:56 AM 945 Views
Re: Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... The Angry Druid - 01/10/2010 12:23:57 AM 1425 Views
I'm disappointed that the dove was not hidden in a background description in the tGS scene... Shannow - 21/09/2010 08:22:29 PM 1518 Views
I was thinking the same thing ... was actually just about to go look for it myself! darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 09:01:34 PM 1511 Views
I'm happy there wasn't... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:18:30 PM 1537 Views
Do you have more detail on Graendal's comments about Aginor's extensive use of the True Power? Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:23:48 PM 1498 Views
Re: Do you have more detail on Graendal's comments about Aginor's extensive use of the True Power? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:52:07 PM 1628 Views
Very interesting. Another case of a character never utilised to his full potential in the series... Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:57:42 PM 1380 Views
True... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:02:59 PM 1378 Views
So there are 6 Forsaken left. Tom - 21/09/2010 10:23:22 PM 1691 Views
For the record Heiko - 21/09/2010 10:53:16 PM 1585 Views
She opened two Gateways, IIRC BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:58:29 PM 1467 Views
Re: She opened two Gateways, IIRC Heiko - 22/09/2010 02:21:47 AM 1498 Views
I am so glad Graendal is alive. I (& hopefully other "Graendal's Alive" supporters) feel vindicated. *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 03:01:07 AM 1093 Views
Did anyone else feel that the Graendal scene was one big infodump? Marshall - 22/09/2010 03:32:44 AM 1610 Views
That's exactly what I was thinking the entire time. It didn't ruin my enjoyment though. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:12:00 PM 1481 Views
Wait...so NO ONE has wanted to discuss the Sapphic scene at Graendal's place? Tom - 22/09/2010 03:48:36 AM 1636 Views
yes, totally Lesbian. *NM* darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:04:16 PM 976 Views
No, the other L word. "LesbiAHNS?" *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 04:18:55 PM 1028 Views
Yes, it was totally lesbian. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:09:19 PM 1433 Views
No, not at all. Aran'gar is still a dude at heart. I think. *NM* BlackAdder - 22/09/2010 08:18:55 PM 994 Views
I tend to agree Sidious - 23/09/2010 05:42:52 PM 1444 Views
Lady parts + Lady parts = Lesbian sex darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 11:24:36 PM 2060 Views
Yes, but its still a little off Sidious - 25/09/2010 09:40:16 AM 1489 Views
Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 04:41:33 PM 1644 Views
Re: Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose Sidious - 25/09/2010 05:25:10 PM 1550 Views
What does Graendal think of Rand? Sidious - 22/09/2010 02:00:28 PM 1614 Views
She was really surprised and scared. Rurouni_Kenshin - 22/09/2010 02:11:28 PM 1577 Views
I take it you haven't read the Prologue. Tom - 22/09/2010 02:16:49 PM 1455 Views
Quite a bit... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 02:31:14 PM 1615 Views
Agreed, she's been worrying about him since the begining darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:18:48 PM 1647 Views
Thanks for the answers *NM* Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:46:05 PM 936 Views
Second best prologue ever... lilltempest - 22/09/2010 06:24:44 PM 1840 Views
It's my favorite ever. Only one dark spot tarnished it. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:18:12 PM 1483 Views
Yeah, tEotW is the best... BlackAdder - 22/09/2010 08:22:12 PM 1510 Views
Aran'gar is a tool Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:31:36 PM 1651 Views
I would think this argues against your contention that she would hold saidin to the max... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:36:09 PM 1438 Views
Re: I would think this argues against your contention that she would hold saidin to the max... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:51:53 PM 1383 Views
Remembering the last time male channelers held reversed weaves in the presence of Rand's party... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:55:12 PM 1329 Views
Yes. s/He was. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/09/2010 08:59:16 PM 1483 Views
Shadow invading Kandor and Lan riding trough it. CONNECTION? 4th Dimension - 22/09/2010 08:36:05 PM 1648 Views
Are Fain's resurrected trollocks undead? RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 01:43:01 AM 1503 Views
After 13 books you still can't spell "trollocs"...wow...that's just...wow... *NM* Tom - 23/09/2010 03:41:24 PM 987 Views
Thanks for taking up space on this board to point out my shortcomings. Always appreciated. *NM* RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 05:23:19 PM 962 Views
Sidious - 23/09/2010 04:47:11 PM 1554 Views
Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO Etzel - 23/09/2010 05:45:41 PM 1574 Views
Re: Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO Sidious - 23/09/2010 09:54:33 PM 1543 Views
Well, that is one prediction I made correctly! Etzel would find a way to make it look like Slayer darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 05:43:20 PM 1594 Views
I believe that Sanderson concocted the entire Graendal/Rand/Balefire part Marshall - 23/09/2010 10:24:46 PM 2192 Views
I had a similar thought, but... RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 10:40:58 PM 1499 Views
Probably not Sanderson 4th Dimension - 23/09/2010 11:11:54 PM 1532 Views
No way Rurouni_Kenshin - 24/09/2010 07:14:35 AM 1458 Views
I can't see team Jordan allowing any deviation on what RJ would have laid out darius_sedai - 12/10/2010 08:32:50 PM 1611 Views
I agree. *NM* Etzel - 25/09/2010 09:42:46 AM 994 Views
A few nits Terez - 12/10/2010 10:21:27 AM 1464 Views
Canadian Download site alanna aes sedai - 29/09/2010 12:05:12 AM 1955 Views
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