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The Angreal Elayne mentions made her 2x as strong as Nynaeve darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 21/09/2010 06:04:21 PM
Kindle won't let me get the Prologue because of where I live so I'll have to wait for the book. Disappointing, but also kind of cool I guess. From what I've read of your different reviews of Graendal I'd like to make the following comments...

It's so awesome that she's alive. She was a major loss to the Shadow as a profoundly clever and evil woman. It seems that her mind moves so quickly that its almost unbelieveable, and she acts on instinct and without hesitation. She realizes that she's about to die, but STILL makes time to quickly snuff out Aran'gar (unless Aran'gar had time to unravel the knot and escape which seems unlikely). I really love this Forsaken. She'll need to get some Healing and without too many BA around that might be a problem, though she'll probably Compel a Yellow.

It was nice to see that she could possess an animal and use its eyes - very nice, almost new thing we're seeing. It's also great that she wants to kill Nynaeve. I'm surprised that Nynaeve's new nemesis might become Graendal - we all expected Semirhage, but she's dead I guess.

What a great twist! It makes the ending so much more exciting having Graendal there. She must have been a really nasty piece of work to try and kill in the War of Power, and she's left Rand responsible for a mass atrocity with no result - though perhaps the death of Aran'gar counts as a small victory.

(Also remember she has an angreal, so we can't judge her strength too easily).

but your point is valid ... but with a weak angreal she is strong enough to shield and bind a male Forsaken an average AS and weave a Gateway all on the fly ... most impressive if you ask me!


Can provide someone with twice as much of the power, or even three times. We see this when Elayne & Aviendha are in a circle using the BotW and Elayne comments about how she gave Aviendha the stronger angreal and she had the weak one, but that she still was able to draw in 2-3 times as much as normal.

So Graendal x 2 is a lot more powerful than a male forsaken. Even if her angreal was VERY weak x 1.5 would still overcome most other forsaken.


I agree that 2x Graendal would be vastly stronger than any Male Forsaken ... but not all posters on here agree with that.

I think even 2x Graendal making 2 shields, air bonds and a Gateway is pretty impressive...
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Towers of Midnight : Prologue discussion - 21/09/2010 04:38:40 AM 8445 Views
Me Too! Guess who is alive!! - 21/09/2010 04:44:40 AM 2181 Views
A dove, that's weird - 21/09/2010 03:19:10 PM 1925 Views
Re: A dove, that's weird - 21/09/2010 03:26:39 PM 1875 Views
Yes, that's the point - 21/09/2010 11:49:00 PM 1732 Views
It did feel a bit deus ex machina - 22/09/2010 12:03:05 AM 1838 Views
Fain is as creepy as ever - 21/09/2010 05:06:35 AM 1957 Views
You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) *NM* - 21/09/2010 05:10:47 AM 1215 Views
Re: You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) - 21/09/2010 05:14:26 AM 2047 Views
It's D/L on B&N now *NM* - 21/09/2010 05:15:44 AM 1116 Views
Anyone find the audiobook version? *NM* - 21/09/2010 10:20:22 AM 1087 Views
I love the borderlanders - 21/09/2010 05:25:29 AM 1910 Views
Best scene of the prologue *NM* - 21/09/2010 03:28:28 PM 1170 Views
Could somebody post a link to where they got it? I want to go to a site where I can download now *NM* - 21/09/2010 05:39:13 AM 1079 Views
I posted some links here - 21/09/2010 06:04:38 AM 1781 Views
My quick summary - 21/09/2010 06:02:41 AM 2554 Views
Whoa, whoa, whoa. - 23/09/2010 02:59:37 AM 1635 Views
It's good, but... Perrin. Ugh. - 21/09/2010 07:37:43 AM 1957 Views
Awesome! - 21/09/2010 09:00:45 AM 1724 Views
Regarding Graendal - 21/09/2010 10:12:42 AM 2223 Views
Some things... - 21/09/2010 01:18:10 PM 1785 Views
I'm glad. Being right is a good feeling - 21/09/2010 04:12:08 PM 1738 Views
a very weak angreal - 21/09/2010 04:55:15 PM 1741 Views
Even a weak angreal - 21/09/2010 05:47:26 PM 1684 Views
The Angreal Elayne mentions made her 2x as strong as Nynaeve - 21/09/2010 06:04:21 PM 1557 Views
The laughter in Perrin's Dream - 21/09/2010 02:24:14 PM 1805 Views
Probably Slayer - 21/09/2010 04:29:41 PM 1687 Views
Re: Probably Slayer - 21/09/2010 04:39:36 PM 1492 Views
Audio Book - 21/09/2010 06:39:54 PM 1623 Views
Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... - 21/09/2010 06:46:42 PM 1822 Views
It's different (I think?) but I'm certainly no expert and I'm sure someone else will reply - 21/09/2010 06:57:18 PM 1746 Views
OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not - 21/09/2010 07:00:23 PM 1554 Views
Re: OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not. - 21/09/2010 07:11:42 PM 1662 Views
Thanks. Was Arangar channeling at the time? - 21/09/2010 07:13:53 PM 1642 Views
I think so, yes. - 21/09/2010 07:15:44 PM 1589 Views
I don't think so actually - 21/09/2010 07:57:42 PM 1670 Views
I don't think Aran'gar was channeling - 21/09/2010 11:00:22 PM 1627 Views
I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd *NM* - 21/09/2010 11:52:01 PM 941 Views
no she wasn't *NM* - 21/09/2010 10:25:13 PM 1052 Views
nope, no power - 23/09/2010 03:05:30 AM 1512 Views
So here's what happens... - 21/09/2010 07:15:03 PM 2028 Views
Thanks. A few comments... - 21/09/2010 07:27:33 PM 1511 Views
I don't rule out the angreal... - 21/09/2010 07:32:40 PM 1547 Views
Elayne's weakest angreal doubles her strength. Graendal x2 can easily shield Cyndane+Moggy, so... - 21/09/2010 07:35:06 PM 1679 Views
Graendal's seemed much weaker... - 21/09/2010 07:52:20 PM 1537 Views
Elayne also called the x2 turtle angreal "weak"... - 21/09/2010 08:00:01 PM 1548 Views
and we know it wasn't enough to overwhlem Verin's circle - 21/09/2010 08:02:13 PM 1396 Views
I disasgree. There is no evidence that Aran'gar was holding saidin at the time - 21/09/2010 07:42:23 PM 1490 Views
Then why did she gasp at the shield? She couldn't have known what Graendal was weaving. - 21/09/2010 07:52:49 PM 1529 Views
because she was surprised that Graendal would put a shield on her in the first place - 21/09/2010 07:58:45 PM 1544 Views
How did she know there was a shield? - 21/09/2010 09:16:59 PM 1500 Views
Fact: Graendal cannot shield a male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai if they are holding the Source... - 21/09/2010 09:28:17 PM 1489 Views
Who said "they"? - 21/09/2010 09:55:28 PM 1469 Views
I really don't think you have to be holding the source to know you've been shielded - 21/09/2010 10:29:20 PM 1443 Views
Provide evidence? - 21/09/2010 10:36:36 PM 1494 Views
Thanks, but like I said, they were both wrapped in air. That's enough for Aran'gar to wonder - 21/09/2010 10:44:17 PM 1401 Views
They gasped before Graendal wove Air... - 21/09/2010 11:13:48 PM 1482 Views
Alright, you win *NM* - 22/09/2010 02:51:26 AM 987 Views
*NM* - 22/09/2010 03:06:22 AM 849 Views
Siuan was distracted by a number of other things going on, not to mention how suspect - 22/09/2010 02:43:36 PM 1395 Views
And Aran'gar was fully focussed on Graendal? - 22/09/2010 03:02:16 PM 1622 Views
More so than Siuan was on Elaida when they were shielded. - 22/09/2010 03:33:15 PM 2404 Views
So? - 22/09/2010 03:48:11 PM 1325 Views
It doesn't matter. There are more Shieldings that go unnoticed when not holding the Source - 22/09/2010 03:55:48 PM 1425 Views
Nice catches! - 22/09/2010 04:06:52 PM 1532 Views
we don't know that - 22/09/2010 02:35:50 PM 1476 Views
Huh? - 22/09/2010 03:03:52 PM 1410 Views
Give over, Darius... there's plenty of evidence... - 22/09/2010 03:45:11 PM 1454 Views
Give over what? There is no hard evidence that Aran'gar wouldn't notice a shield put on her - 22/09/2010 05:00:11 PM 1365 Views
What rot... (also, Egwene and Rand) - 22/09/2010 05:21:08 PM 1478 Views
take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. - 22/09/2010 05:38:21 PM 1452 Views
Re: take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. - 22/09/2010 05:45:05 PM 1581 Views
if it was JUST one shield ... but she's shielding an AS and weaving a Gateway too! - 22/09/2010 05:48:52 PM 3494 Views
Well... - 22/09/2010 07:00:26 PM 1509 Views
She says... - 22/09/2010 07:04:32 PM 1512 Views
no one is arguing that - 22/09/2010 07:09:17 PM 1447 Views
Er... - 22/09/2010 07:19:09 PM 1410 Views
I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded - 22/09/2010 07:20:48 PM 2232 Views
Re: I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded - 22/09/2010 07:26:52 PM 2205 Views
Again, I just find that option completely unlikely since Graendals angreal isn't all that strong - 22/09/2010 07:39:02 PM 1463 Views
You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. - 23/09/2010 01:53:25 AM 1546 Views
Re: You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. - 23/09/2010 03:42:31 PM 1451 Views
- 23/09/2010 03:54:02 PM 1452 Views
Re: . The evidence is that no channeled is that strong! - 23/09/2010 04:04:02 PM 1573 Views
Really? - 23/09/2010 06:11:00 PM 1535 Views
Re: Really? - 23/09/2010 09:56:09 PM 1400 Views
That's my point *NM* - 24/09/2010 12:20:45 AM 984 Views
Dear God! The sheer amount of replies here just blew my mind, and my window (jk). *NM* - 24/09/2010 07:28:14 PM 1006 Views
Y o u' r e h u r t i n g m y s c r o l l b a r *NM* - 24/09/2010 11:30:27 PM 997 Views
Re: She says... - 22/09/2010 07:12:48 PM 1454 Views
Exactly. - 23/09/2010 01:54:05 AM 1437 Views
The way it reads she is holding open a Gateway, then slams shields on both - 22/09/2010 07:08:17 PM 1422 Views
Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 05:46:19 PM 1528 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 05:53:05 PM 1394 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 07:03:02 PM 1404 Views
Nope - 22/09/2010 07:19:30 PM 1301 Views
Re: Nope - 23/09/2010 02:06:35 AM 1466 Views
Toveine! Now THAT is a good catch, fionwe! - 23/09/2010 07:57:05 AM 1575 Views
Sidious pointed it out, actually. But thanks! - 23/09/2010 03:55:29 PM 1454 Views
And you ignore all the evidence in the series that definitively makes it impossible for Graendal to - 23/09/2010 03:57:49 PM 1342 Views
Well... - 23/09/2010 04:31:27 PM 1521 Views
According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal - 24/09/2010 11:18:30 PM 1655 Views
Re: According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal - 25/09/2010 09:38:41 AM 1507 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 24/09/2010 03:20:49 AM 1625 Views
Oh come on.. be real - 22/09/2010 05:39:51 PM 1420 Views
see that's an argument that makes more sense to me - 22/09/2010 05:47:17 PM 1501 Views
Re: How did she know there was a shield? - 24/09/2010 04:42:25 AM 1439 Views
You'[re missing the part about the bonds of air as well - 21/09/2010 11:06:04 PM 1436 Views
No. The sequence was shield-gasp-tie off shield-wrap in Air. *NM* - 21/09/2010 11:14:41 PM 1025 Views
We have seen people holding the source caught off guard by a shield *NM* - 22/09/2010 12:10:48 AM 978 Views
Well, exactly! - 22/09/2010 02:01:12 AM 1499 Views
What I think happened - 22/09/2010 09:19:57 AM 1456 Views
It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... - 22/09/2010 10:06:47 AM 1425 Views
Re: It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... - 22/09/2010 01:31:52 PM 1504 Views
Fair point. - 22/09/2010 02:07:05 PM 1480 Views
I think it also bears mentioning that ... - 22/09/2010 04:17:17 PM 1504 Views
Graendal knew Aran'gar was distracted - 23/09/2010 07:10:52 AM 1415 Views
About shielding a channeler holding the Source... - 22/09/2010 05:51:34 PM 2516 Views
Re: About shielding a channeler holding the Source... - 22/09/2010 07:04:37 PM 2952 Views
The angreal makes this an unnecessary debate... - 22/09/2010 07:09:20 PM 1409 Views
she never shielded them - 22/09/2010 07:22:29 PM 1413 Views
True...But it made her strong enough to easily overcome both... - 22/09/2010 07:28:12 PM 1368 Views
This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned - 22/09/2010 07:51:19 PM 1468 Views
Re: This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned - 22/09/2010 07:54:18 PM 1420 Views
LMAO... nice! - 22/09/2010 08:24:20 PM 1440 Views
I think we need to place Aran'gar lower too.. - 22/09/2010 07:10:29 PM 1502 Views
A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... - 22/09/2010 07:13:51 PM 1343 Views
I would agree - 22/09/2010 07:22:50 PM 1491 Views
Re: I would agree - 22/09/2010 07:25:46 PM 1355 Views
Re: A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... - 23/09/2010 03:03:26 AM 1429 Views
Mostly agree - 22/09/2010 07:23:53 PM 1412 Views
Re: Mostly agree - 22/09/2010 07:28:42 PM 1368 Views
I am starting to believe that RJ didn't think quite so literally - 22/09/2010 08:07:45 PM 1435 Views
Not sure if you agreed with this before, but I reached this point awhile ago bwahaha - 22/09/2010 08:53:42 PM 1465 Views
I've been on this side for a good long while - 22/09/2010 09:40:43 PM 1562 Views
*NM* - 28/09/2010 11:54:54 PM 944 Views
Well there is one thing to consider about this - 21/09/2010 07:32:44 PM 1682 Views
So there are 6 Forsaken left. - 21/09/2010 10:23:22 PM 1722 Views
For the record - 21/09/2010 10:53:16 PM 1610 Views
She opened two Gateways, IIRC - 21/09/2010 11:58:29 PM 1498 Views
Re: She opened two Gateways, IIRC - 22/09/2010 02:21:47 AM 1529 Views
Wait...so NO ONE has wanted to discuss the Sapphic scene at Graendal's place? - 22/09/2010 03:48:36 AM 1660 Views
yes, totally Lesbian. *NM* - 22/09/2010 03:04:16 PM 987 Views
No, the other L word. "LesbiAHNS?" *NM* - 22/09/2010 04:18:55 PM 1041 Views
Yes, it was totally lesbian. - 22/09/2010 07:09:19 PM 1450 Views
No, not at all. Aran'gar is still a dude at heart. I think. *NM* - 22/09/2010 08:18:55 PM 1005 Views
I tend to agree - 23/09/2010 05:42:52 PM 1469 Views
Lady parts + Lady parts = Lesbian sex - 24/09/2010 11:24:36 PM 2082 Views
Yes, but its still a little off - 25/09/2010 09:40:16 AM 1512 Views
Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose - 25/09/2010 04:41:33 PM 1669 Views
Re: Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose - 25/09/2010 05:25:10 PM 1583 Views
What does Graendal think of Rand? - 22/09/2010 02:00:28 PM 1638 Views
She was really surprised and scared. - 22/09/2010 02:11:28 PM 1600 Views
I take it you haven't read the Prologue. - 22/09/2010 02:16:49 PM 1481 Views
Quite a bit... - 22/09/2010 02:31:14 PM 1646 Views
Agreed, she's been worrying about him since the begining - 22/09/2010 03:18:48 PM 1674 Views
Thanks for the answers *NM* - 22/09/2010 05:46:05 PM 949 Views
Second best prologue ever... - 22/09/2010 06:24:44 PM 1864 Views
It's my favorite ever. Only one dark spot tarnished it. - 22/09/2010 07:18:12 PM 1508 Views
Yeah, tEotW is the best... - 22/09/2010 08:22:12 PM 1539 Views
Aran'gar is a tool - 22/09/2010 07:31:36 PM 1679 Views
Yes. s/He was. - 22/09/2010 08:59:16 PM 1511 Views
Shadow invading Kandor and Lan riding trough it. CONNECTION? - 22/09/2010 08:36:05 PM 1674 Views
- 23/09/2010 04:47:11 PM 1583 Views
Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO - 23/09/2010 05:45:41 PM 1601 Views
Re: Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO - 23/09/2010 09:54:33 PM 1562 Views
I believe that Sanderson concocted the entire Graendal/Rand/Balefire part - 23/09/2010 10:24:46 PM 2222 Views
I had a similar thought, but... - 23/09/2010 10:40:58 PM 1523 Views
Probably not Sanderson - 23/09/2010 11:11:54 PM 1557 Views
No way - 24/09/2010 07:14:35 AM 1481 Views
I agree. *NM* - 25/09/2010 09:42:46 AM 1014 Views
A few nits - 12/10/2010 10:21:27 AM 1485 Views
Canadian Download site - 29/09/2010 12:05:12 AM 1980 Views

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