There's just as much evidence for the same sort of motivation for Logain
Cannoli Send a noteboard - 04/09/2010 03:50:22 AM
Rand has invited Egwene to send sisters to come bond men at the Black Tower, which is extremely attractive because a) the AS need mixed gender circles and b) they are looking for a way to deal with the threat they perceive the BT to be. Rand can't be blamed if the WT envoys are completely uncautious (not that they will be, like the naive Reds), but he most definitely can be blamed for sending Egwene's people into a potentially rotten trap, when they go at Rand's own invitation.
Rand was aware that Taim was a possibly a traitor and DF but has chosen to dismiss Logain's accusations. His "offer" for Egwene's people to go bond men at the BT reeks of spite toward Logain, who Rand blames for bonding the 47 women in the first place, even though this was done in part to protect the lives of those women.
That's true and I had issues with the idea back when he first proposed it, as there is nothing just or balancing the scales about it. Paying restitution to Egwene for an offense against her arch-enemy's followers is absurd. Treating the bonding as if it was an offense against the Aes Sedai, when the circumstances would have justified their summary execution, is ridiculous. Doing it to spite Logain is the only motive that makes sense, unless you subscribe to the liltempest "Every WoT male is completely whipped and acts out of fear of women" school of thought. Rand was aware that Taim was a possibly a traitor and DF but has chosen to dismiss Logain's accusations. His "offer" for Egwene's people to go bond men at the BT reeks of spite toward Logain, who Rand blames for bonding the 47 women in the first place, even though this was done in part to protect the lives of those women.
Furthermore, it's by and large personal rivalry with Logain that motivated Rand to reject the accusations that Taim was a traitor and DF, not at all a question of credibility. Rand has long been suspecting Taim,
Actually he's been mistrusting Taim, and wary of confronting him out of fear of the exact fault he seems to give way to in dealing with Logain. He doesn't actually seem to suspect Taim of anything, just possess an instinctive hostility. Regardless of whether or not Rand is conscious of them, Logain's credibility issues are real, and he gives every appearance of acting in spite as well. he just rejected Logain's information out of spite, because he hated the fact Logain put that under his nose, and implied Rand has created the BT then dumped it into the hands of a man he didn't trust, and thus is responsible for letting Taim do as he wished there - which is the truth, and Rand didn't like hearing it and responded irrationaly to that.
While that may be true as far as it goes, I think its more of a case that he made up his mind what to do with Taim before he ever met him, and despite his initial negative reaction, had nothing better to do with Taim, had no one else to take over the teaching of male channelers and no concrete reason to not follow through with his plan. With that settled, unless he rode herd on Taim and micromanaged the Black Tower, I can't see how he could have avoided Taim building up a faction (if more clandestinely of necessity, and wouldn't that have been a whole different set of problems), and that course of action would have invalidated the whole point of finding someone else to dump the teaching gig on. And the point remains that without Taim, the Black Tower would not have amounted to much. Perhaps he wanted to cast a wider net to gain a bigger clique of minions, even if that clique had to operate within a more powerful and effective organization more or less loyal to Rand (if only in the abstract), but the fact remains, giving Taim his head brought Rand a great many benefits. It was the size and scope of the Black Tower and its recruiting operations, respectively, that convinced Tarna, and by extension the Reds, to resign themselves to dealing with the Asha'man, rather than trying to get rid of them. Whatever Rand's pique, a good case can be made in defense of Taim, and Logain's subsequent behavior, whether inspired by Rand's rejection or simply the same deficiency of character than led him to become a false Dragon in the first place, does not led much support to his own position.By and large, Rand deals with Logain like a man who fears or resents the fact Logain has more influence over the group he brought than he has. Rand is using Logain as a punching bag, constantly trying to undermine his position, a kind of surrogate for what he couldn't do to Taim, and all the while knowing it's Taim he must be the most cautious of.
But Logain is similarly guilty, with his going around telling everyone his own opinion of the Cleansing, in spite of the evidence supporting Rand's version; his resentment of Rand's superior ability with the Power and quickness to assume Rand's holding onto the Power is an attempt to rub Logain's nose in his strength (even the most rudimentary awareness of the Power suggests no channeler needs even that much of an excuse to hold onto it) both suggest he envisioned a relationship with Rand not unlike Taim's initially suggested partnership. Every sign that indicates Rand's genuinely superior ability undermines Logain's ambition or pretense of great stature and leadership. Perhaps he was hoping to find a Dragon Reborn who needed him and would elevate him as he thinks he deserves, but Rand's superior power and accomplishments drive home to Logain that he is not as special as he thinks he is, leading him to start affecting his birth title and status or second-guess Rand to protect his captives, whom Logain, at least, knows the truth of their intentions at the Black Tower. Egwene and the WT are just paying for Rand's childhish attitude with Logain. Whatever she did or thought, she didn't deserve being sent into that trap, and will have all the reasons to be furious about the outcome of that. It's a deriliction of his responsabilities by Rand, one that likely will have deadly consequences for many sisters.
What's "absurd" is the fact Rand invoked not wanting problems with the Tower as his excuse for "punishing" Logain for bonding women. He really, really didn't think any of this through and reacted impulsively and emotionally - never a good thing in a leader.
That is entirely true, even if I don't accept that his offer to bond Asha'man and possible negligence of the Black Tower makes him responsible for the theoretical fates of the Aes Sedai. Particularly relative to Egwene, whose determination to keep Tower secrets from Rand led to his confusion about the rebellion and assumptions of allies among the Tower embassy, or aid from the Salidar embassy, only to meet hostility and aggression from both sides. Egwene's similarly childish identification with the Aes Sedai and wish to have her cake and eat it too (maintenance of Aes Sedai stature and dignity, and at the same time total rejection of Elaida by Rand), and her transparent ploys undermined her cautions to Rand. He couldn't really rely on the judgement of someone so ambivalent, and paid for it with his captivity and mistreatment. What's "absurd" is the fact Rand invoked not wanting problems with the Tower as his excuse for "punishing" Logain for bonding women. He really, really didn't think any of this through and reacted impulsively and emotionally - never a good thing in a leader.
Really, short of the deaths of every sister who took up Rand's offer, anyone speaking for the White Tower has little room to talk to Rand about aberant membership causing the other side pain. What is more, Egwene indicates her understanding of Rand's lack of culpability in the bonding, yet still intends to hold that against him. Any genuine responsibility he might have for the circumstances of the Tower's displeasure is undercut by the fact that it would have done him no good, and he was bound to face the Amyrlin's anger whether he deserves it or not.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
Will Rand have cause to be mad at Egwene if...
01/09/2010 02:24:24 AM
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Well...
01/09/2010 04:05:02 AM
- 987 Views
Blaming Rand for Aes Sedai misfortunes is absurd
01/09/2010 08:19:27 AM
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Re: Blaming Rand for Aes Sedai misfortunes is absurd
01/09/2010 02:16:06 PM
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What proof do you have that Logain is good? Or proof that Taim is bad, that Rand would know?
01/09/2010 06:50:19 PM
- 928 Views
Absolutely none, which is the point.
02/09/2010 12:14:53 AM
- 769 Views
Of course! Rumors from a semi-retired terrorist Rand has never spoken to before = Verin's book.
04/09/2010 03:04:19 AM
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Re: What proof do you have that Logain is good? Or proof that Taim is bad, that Rand would know?
02/09/2010 08:51:15 PM
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That's EXACTLY why Egwene would do it.
01/09/2010 06:45:25 PM
- 789 Views
Now, now. I'm trying to play nice and stipulate good intentions and a sense of justice on her part.
01/09/2010 06:51:04 PM
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Re: Blaming Rand for Aes Sedai misfortunes is absurd
03/09/2010 02:39:38 AM
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There's just as much evidence for the same sort of motivation for Logain
04/09/2010 03:50:22 AM
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