If you go back and read the descriptions of the breaking, and think about the 3000 year cycle
newyorkersedai Send a noteboard - 20/08/2010 04:37:02 PM
it will make more, if not perfect, sense. The entire world turned into a giant wasteland. Places that used to be in harbor were suddenly 2000 feet in the air, or 1500 feet under water. More likely, they were gone altogether. Continents were completely remade and shifted, for god's sake.
Rand's ancestors' memories of the Breaking pretty much set it up for you to understand. Society was reduced to people with wagons and horses and carts and junk like that. And remember that Ogier were helping out some of the un-crazy men; but once they missed saidin too much, they went out into the world and made a new damn mess.
RJ has said several times that part of why things didn't get too awful - like Dark Ages awful - is that printing wasn't lost (or wasn't lost for long). That allowed books to keep coming out and make people's brains better. But remember that there were also the Trolloc Wars later on - and that those apparently also came close to wiping out all the humans in Randland.
It doesn't make much sense that some people - like the two ancient Aes Sedai at Rhuidean - couldn't preserve their knowledge in some ways. Surely they would have had a lot to add, or even put into a book. But maybe channeling isn't something that can be taught through words and diagrams. Maybe they were scared about DF channelers getting their hands on those same weaves! Actually, I think there's decent odds that some of those things still exist in Seanchan - it clearly sounds like some of the old AoL magic wasn't lost on that weird and isolated continent.
Rand's ancestors' memories of the Breaking pretty much set it up for you to understand. Society was reduced to people with wagons and horses and carts and junk like that. And remember that Ogier were helping out some of the un-crazy men; but once they missed saidin too much, they went out into the world and made a new damn mess.
RJ has said several times that part of why things didn't get too awful - like Dark Ages awful - is that printing wasn't lost (or wasn't lost for long). That allowed books to keep coming out and make people's brains better. But remember that there were also the Trolloc Wars later on - and that those apparently also came close to wiping out all the humans in Randland.
It doesn't make much sense that some people - like the two ancient Aes Sedai at Rhuidean - couldn't preserve their knowledge in some ways. Surely they would have had a lot to add, or even put into a book. But maybe channeling isn't something that can be taught through words and diagrams. Maybe they were scared about DF channelers getting their hands on those same weaves! Actually, I think there's decent odds that some of those things still exist in Seanchan - it clearly sounds like some of the old AoL magic wasn't lost on that weird and isolated continent.
Let's talk about some of the weaves that have been 'lost' since the AoL.
Travelling/Skimming, Compulsion, Balefire, Creating Cuendillar, Creating Angreal.
For most of these weaves it makes no sense how they got lost. I can see Balefire and Compulsion being forbidden, and once the Aes Sedai who knew them died.. Even so, even if they were forbidden, you would think some book somewhere in the Tower would explain them. Even forbidden losing knowledge forever should be obscene to an Aes Sedai, especially of the Brown Ajah.
Something like Travelling I do not see hot that would become lost at all. Every Aes Sedai would use that weave, and there are a lot in this day and age who can use it by themselves, so the theory that the Aes Sedai werent strong enough to use it is moot.
Maybe creating things from Cuendillar could be passed off as "well, most women had no strength in Earth", this is hairy at best because there are plenty of women who were in the Tower in Exile that could do it, Egwene being one, and Leane being another and Nicola and more. So it just got erased too?
Same with Angreal. You're going to forget and/or not pass down how to create them? Even if noone was strong enough to do it in thousands of years, noone will even write it down?
There's a million theories we could make say, but all seem weak.
'They were too busy to write them down'
' They never write a weave down'
' All the strongest died and noone's been strong enough in 3-4 thousands years until now (all of a sudden)'
None of those really fly with me. For one thing it seems like there is an immense amount of strong channelers today even though channelers breeding with channelers purposely has been out since the AoL. So does anyone have any idea besides just that it was more suspenseful and exciting for RJ to make them all get 'discovered' in this day and age?
Travelling/Skimming, Compulsion, Balefire, Creating Cuendillar, Creating Angreal.
For most of these weaves it makes no sense how they got lost. I can see Balefire and Compulsion being forbidden, and once the Aes Sedai who knew them died.. Even so, even if they were forbidden, you would think some book somewhere in the Tower would explain them. Even forbidden losing knowledge forever should be obscene to an Aes Sedai, especially of the Brown Ajah.
Something like Travelling I do not see hot that would become lost at all. Every Aes Sedai would use that weave, and there are a lot in this day and age who can use it by themselves, so the theory that the Aes Sedai werent strong enough to use it is moot.
Maybe creating things from Cuendillar could be passed off as "well, most women had no strength in Earth", this is hairy at best because there are plenty of women who were in the Tower in Exile that could do it, Egwene being one, and Leane being another and Nicola and more. So it just got erased too?
Same with Angreal. You're going to forget and/or not pass down how to create them? Even if noone was strong enough to do it in thousands of years, noone will even write it down?
There's a million theories we could make say, but all seem weak.
'They were too busy to write them down'
' They never write a weave down'
' All the strongest died and noone's been strong enough in 3-4 thousands years until now (all of a sudden)'
None of those really fly with me. For one thing it seems like there is an immense amount of strong channelers today even though channelers breeding with channelers purposely has been out since the AoL. So does anyone have any idea besides just that it was more suspenseful and exciting for RJ to make them all get 'discovered' in this day and age?
This message last edited by newyorkersedai on 20/08/2010 at 04:37:24 PM
How were all these amazing weaves 'lost' ?
20/08/2010 04:33:43 AM
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You're right. It is merely a plot requirement, made ludicrous by the ease of mastering these weaves
20/08/2010 10:08:10 AM
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Re: You're right. It is merely a plot requirement, made ludicrous by the ease of mastering
20/08/2010 03:40:16 PM
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These are good points. To some extent, it may be because our main characters are "gifted" channelers
20/08/2010 08:57:49 PM
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The bigger problem is minor characters copying the weaves so quickly...
20/08/2010 09:14:25 PM
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Lost Weaves
20/08/2010 01:43:25 PM
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Not logical
20/08/2010 01:50:32 PM
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Re: Not logical
20/08/2010 03:22:04 PM
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All I'm saying, is that Travelling would STILL be a very usefull survival tool during the Breaking..
20/08/2010 03:44:59 PM
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If you go back and read the descriptions of the breaking, and think about the 3000 year cycle
20/08/2010 04:37:02 PM
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I don't think that creating cuendillar and 'angreals was common knowledge.
20/08/2010 05:06:20 PM
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You & Ryan make good points, esp on balefire/compulsion. In a shorter series, it'd make more sense
20/08/2010 08:52:59 PM
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Maybe Aes Sedai treated weaves like Intellectual Property
20/08/2010 09:49:12 PM
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Trademark? Patent? Or Copyright? =P *NM*
20/08/2010 10:19:36 PM
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If they are secretive and protective, it's not a huge stretch that knowledge would be taken into the
21/08/2010 10:27:15 AM
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Idea?
21/08/2010 12:47:52 AM
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But they weren't too weak
21/08/2010 02:48:43 AM
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That's because most of the major people in WoT are powerful channelers.
21/08/2010 04:13:04 AM
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How can you "write a weave down"?
21/08/2010 04:54:28 PM
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How did Moiraine learn balefire then? *NM*
21/08/2010 05:04:27 PM
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figured it out on her own, don't forget that Nyn used it too against the Fades in TDR. *NM*
21/08/2010 05:12:15 PM
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That's a stretch - Moiraine never demonstrated any creative talent with the OP...
21/08/2010 06:15:01 PM
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OK, I'll buy Vandene teaching it, but not learning it from a written description *NM*
21/08/2010 06:35:46 PM
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I disagree - Moiraine's wilder tricks show that she is quite creative with the OP
24/08/2010 03:31:06 PM
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Re: I disagree - Moiraine's wilder tricks show that she is quite creative with the OP
24/08/2010 05:32:11 PM
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We know of her trick with stones and light from 'New Spring' IIRC
25/08/2010 02:40:26 PM
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Passing on useful survival skills trumped esoteric lore during the War of Power and the Breaking
25/08/2010 03:18:47 PM
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