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Re: We don't know that about Compulsion - we are talking about 2 different ways to deal Datakim Send a noteboard - 12/08/2010 08:21:32 PM
What we know, as Nynaeve demonstrated, is that trying to remove the effects of Compulsion using the Power is tricky and can damage the victim.

We don't know if simply nullifying the weave would have the same effect. I would say that the best way to test this would be to send the victim of Compulsion into a stedding to see if the weave was effected. That would imply the effect was from a tied off web (which seems to be the case given the evidence Nynaeve found).


Then why did LTT/Rand not do that? Why ask Nynaeve to perform an extremely delicate operation that could fail due to her lack of knowledge and which took nearly an hour, when all that was required was a quick gateway next to a stedding and pushing the boy inside?


Regardless, the question this brings up has more to do with the scene: Why bother removing the Compulsion from Elza at all? The nature of her self justification made her want to do anything necessary to see Rand go to the Last Battle so he could be defeated by the Dark One. It wouldn't have interfered with freeing Semirhage and removing the wards since those actions are direct ways to accomplish the goal.


Did SH know exactly what orders Elza had been given? We readers may know what orders Verin gave, how Elza interpreted them and that it may not have been required. But even if SH could see the weaves, he might not be able to tell what commands were given. From shadows POV, it would have been better to play it safe in such case, rather than risk having some hidden compulsion command kick in at the worst moment and ruin everything.


I think this scene is noteworthy for what it reveals of Shaidar Harans' limitations and less so because of how the weaves' effects were dealt with.


I should add that BS has also said or atleast implied that SH's power cutting trick only works on those who have sworn themselves to the shadow. This would mean that even if SH can disrupt tied off weaves of darkfriends, he would not have been able to do so for Cadsuanes weaves since she has not sworn to the shadow. He needed Elza to go and break the wards. The compulsion on Elza was made by a DF (Verin) yes, but again instantly nullifying it could have killed Elza as was said earlier. Bottom line is that as of yet, we don't know the full extent of SH's abilities.
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Who betrayed Cadsuane by stealing the male adam and CK? - 12/08/2010 09:49:32 AM 1733 Views
it's been discussed a lot - 12/08/2010 11:00:06 AM 1199 Views
Really? All the questions it poses? - 12/08/2010 11:06:11 AM 984 Views
Havent seen this exact discussion before either.. *NM* - 12/08/2010 11:06:45 AM 391 Views
Re: Really? All the questions it poses? - 12/08/2010 11:56:26 AM 1021 Views
not really - 12/08/2010 02:08:41 PM 908 Views
Yep, pretty much. Otherwise he could have just nullified the Compulsions' lingering effect on Elza - 12/08/2010 02:11:24 PM 844 Views
That's how I see it too - 12/08/2010 03:50:19 PM 812 Views
As demonstrated in TGS... - 12/08/2010 05:27:21 PM 819 Views
We don't know that about Compulsion - we are talking about 2 different ways to deal with that weave - 12/08/2010 07:16:30 PM 817 Views
Re: We don't know that about Compulsion - we are talking about 2 different ways to deal - 12/08/2010 08:21:32 PM 832 Views
I replied to the topic before you edited to ask all the extra questions - 12/08/2010 12:08:27 PM 816 Views
Oh Deadsy - 13/08/2010 05:18:32 AM 795 Views
Both Bair and Sorilea knew - 12/08/2010 10:33:59 PM 828 Views
Fallacy of logic - 12/08/2010 10:58:49 PM 803 Views
Re: Fallacy of logic - 12/08/2010 11:07:19 PM 701 Views
Disagree - 13/08/2010 11:44:41 AM 815 Views
I think it was Sorilea. - 12/08/2010 02:09:28 PM 852 Views
Re: Who betrayed Cadsuane by stealing the male adam and CK? - 12/08/2010 02:43:23 PM 1028 Views
Re: Who betrayed Cadsuane by stealing the male adam and CK? - 12/08/2010 05:42:00 PM 1295 Views
Re: Who betrayed Cadsuane by stealing the male adam and CK? - 12/08/2010 08:06:25 PM 1113 Views
Re: Who betrayed Cadsuane by stealing the male adam and CK? - 12/08/2010 08:20:44 PM 840 Views
Re: Who betrayed Cadsuane by stealing the male adam and CK? - 12/08/2010 08:32:21 PM 940 Views
Who most wanted to get rid of Cadsuane BESIDES Rand? - 12/08/2010 09:01:44 PM 941 Views
Re: Who most wanted to get rid of Cadsuane BESIDES Rand? - 12/08/2010 09:12:35 PM 729 Views
Cadsuane purposely framed, not a mistake - 12/08/2010 11:51:43 PM 917 Views
Regarding Aiel DFs - 12/08/2010 11:38:48 PM 851 Views
Can't be Sorilea - 13/08/2010 11:50:53 AM 764 Views
Re: Can't be Sorilea - 13/08/2010 08:46:02 PM 726 Views
Re: Can't be Sorilea - 14/08/2010 12:00:40 AM 754 Views
Re: Can't be Sorilea - 14/08/2010 12:34:18 AM 811 Views
Re: Can't be Sorilea - 14/08/2010 04:31:24 AM 801 Views
Oh yes.. Cadsuane was so so careful..NOT - 17/08/2010 06:42:49 AM 729 Views
I think that Couladin was a dark friend. - 13/08/2010 03:00:20 AM 1205 Views
I'd be surprised, actually. - 13/08/2010 05:34:13 AM 738 Views
Couladin and Asmodean - 13/08/2010 08:33:38 AM 797 Views
Re: Couladin and Asmodean - 13/08/2010 04:45:21 PM 887 Views
Re: Couladin and Asmodean - 14/08/2010 05:49:00 PM 803 Views
Re: Couladin and Asmodean - 17/08/2010 04:07:50 AM 704 Views
Couldin isn't intolerant. He's murderously xenophobic. - 14/08/2010 05:45:15 PM 743 Views
Almost ALL of the Aiel were murderously Xenophobic before Rand united them. *NM* - 15/08/2010 01:00:37 PM 359 Views
If someone entered their land. - 15/08/2010 02:28:31 PM 771 Views
Well yeah. - 17/08/2010 03:55:15 AM 748 Views
Re: The missing Choeden Kal... - 15/08/2010 07:47:40 AM 724 Views
She could have been ordered to leave it there. - 15/08/2010 01:04:38 PM 701 Views

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