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Re: Perhaps they would die? Datakim Send a noteboard - 04/08/2010 07:44:10 PM

Naah, don't fear. I suppose you did hit the flaw in my idea. The sul'dam held Aes Sedai might have been able to form the killing weaves, but they wouldn't have been able to use them on a person no matter how much the sul'dam forced them and the weaves.
But the Oath Rod isn't an all powerful tool, it has limits. The oath Brett suggested is pretty specific. That might make for a different outcome.


Yes, the oaths are powerfull, but they depend entirely on both the wording of the oath, and more importantly the perception of the one bound by the oath. Most likely in the AoL where they fully understood how the rod worked, the specific oaths were very carefully analyzed for any potential weaknesses and loopholes before use.


I wonder if Semirhage ever tried this? She would have found it interesting.. Off-topic.


Not even Semirhage could actually overcome the oaths through torture alone. The problem is that it does not matter how much the subject WANTS to obey the torturer, the oaths work despite that. I suppose if you tortured someone for so long that they went utterly and completely insane then some of the oaths might be bypassed since the perceptions would be distorted.

For example, it is likely that even if LTT had been under an oath not to use the power as a weapon, then he would still likely have been able to kill his family. This is because he was likely so utterly insane at the time that his mind truly failed to realise what he was doing and so the oaths would not have kicked in to stop him since in LTT's mind he actually was not killing.


But if you then accidentally and unknowingly aided the Seanchan and realized it afterwards you have managed to break on oath. What happens?


I am pretty sure nothing would happen. The oaths dont work retroactively. We have seen this with AS who have said something as truth that they believed to be true, only to later be proven wrong. For example AS said that healing stilling was "impossible", and yet now that they know the truth they have suffered no harm.

All it means is that once they realise their mistake, they cannot repeat it. So an AS could no longer say that healing stilling is impossible, since they now know that this is not the case.


The perception is a potential weakness that the Seanchan could use however. To give an example, if an oath prohibited helping the Seanchan, then they would just have to brainwash the damane into believing that the sul'dam were actually NOT from Seanchan. Once the Damane truly _believed_ that, then the oath against helping Seanchan would no longer work.

Or lets say using OP as a weapon. The oath states that OP can be used as a weapon only in self defense, or the defense of a warder or _another sister_. If an AS damane could somehow be completely convinced that since she is property of the Empire, all female seanchan are her sisters, then she could use the OP as a weapon to protect any female soldiers in danger(her sisters).
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read the oaths again - 04/08/2010 08:15:24 PM 829 Views
Re: read the oaths again - 05/08/2010 01:08:32 AM 834 Views
Re: read the oaths again - 05/08/2010 05:52:08 PM 814 Views
I don't think #1 is as simple as you say. - 04/08/2010 02:22:25 AM 790 Views
What kind of advantage is it, anyway? - 04/08/2010 03:43:40 AM 794 Views
Re: What kind of advantage is it, anyway? - 04/08/2010 11:16:03 AM 769 Views
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Re: For the most part, they can only defend themselves... - 04/08/2010 03:35:53 PM 824 Views
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