In any case, I woudn't be surprised SH overlooked the CK. We know what it was, Elza knew what it was, but nothing suggests SH knew what it was.
Maybe. I guess we will (hopefully) find out eventually.
Maybe. I guess we will (hopefully) find out eventually.
Maybe., although I'm a bit afraid it sounds like a typical situation for which, previously in the series, RJ left us draw our own conclusions and never clarified an issue (he tended to do that a lot whenever it's a matter of giving too concrete explanations about what Shai'tan does or want).
It might be why Brandon is so uneasy to confirm anything. Jordan didn't spell it out, and by pointing out to Semirhage's comment, Brandon is giving us his opinion of the most likely explanation, but he won't commit himself since he doesn't know for sure. It's not really a good time to come out and tell us "you'll never know the answer, but personally I think Semirhage was probably right".
Maybe. Though Elza is described as looking dazed by Rand, as though someone had hit her in the head with a club.
While I assumed she was in that state after experiencing Shaidar Haran then Semirhage back-to-back.
Also remember that Semirhage is a master-healer, one of the foremost in all of AoL, and Verin's compulsion was a very simple and crude.
Verin's weave was in truth described as extremely complex (it wasn't crude, she was just weaving extremely slowly and cautiously, because it was so comple, perhaps in the fact it was "patch-up" even more complex if less efficient than Chosen-style compulsion (though its effects had limitations full compulsion as the Chosen do it don't have) and she was also convinced it left no trace for delving. Graendal too is able to weave very subtle and virtually undetectable compulsion, only not when she weaves it like a hammer...
Verin's was not quite the compulsion weave Semirhage was familiar with either. It's quite possible Semirhage delved Elza and decided to wait because she was puzzled by the weave (especially if Verin was right it was almost undetectable) and had no time to figure it out for certain. Notice that even as a top Restorer Semirhage wasn't looking forward to unravel compulsion because it failed so often, even for her. Most times it works much like what happened to Nynaeve when she tried. She unravelled it, but the person died. A failed attempt might have jeopardized the mission. Perhaps Semirhage knows weaves to stimulate repressed memories and get Elza to become conscious of what the compelled orders were. Knowing that, she would have no need to try to unravel the "weird compulsion" on Elza anymore.
Semirhage also has tricks to make sure if Elza would obey her or if her compulsion would interfere. Those tricks might explain Elza's dazed state!
Also, given that Semirhage knows the order to remove Elza's compulsion came from SH, would she really have decided to delay it out of her own initiative?
If she feared enough she might fail, yes she would I think. Better tell SH "I can't do it safely, I need her for the DB" than fail and tell SH "Oops... do you have any other woman available to complete the mission?".
I think Elza's uneasiness was not really caused by compulsion, but rather by the fact that even she was horrified by what Semirhage was doing. She suddenly realised that she was over her head, and that scared her.
It's a valid explanation as well. We have to pick the one we prefer, as for this we'll never get a straight answer in the books (unless from a Q&A, and that'd be quite a useless question to ask!)
That bit about compulsion had one purpose only: to show us that even Semirhage had very serious misgivings about unravelling compulsion. That was there strictly to raise the stakes for Nynaeve later, and foreshadow that Rand had asked her almost the impossible, because even Semirhage didn't like attempting it. It doesn't really matter if Semirhage tried and succeeded or delayed until after the mission, that is.. we were not supposed to know for sure.
foreshadowing of Semirhage's death
25/07/2010 07:13:48 AM
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I don't think that Semirhage was sacrificed
25/07/2010 08:36:47 AM
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I disagree about the TP aspect
25/07/2010 03:30:37 PM
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Re: I disagree about the TP aspect
25/07/2010 04:03:45 PM
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It's an interesting theory in either direction
25/07/2010 04:54:31 PM
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Re: It's an interesting theory in either direction
26/07/2010 02:17:35 AM
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BS said "there will be consequences from Rand's True Power use."
26/07/2010 09:24:26 AM
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Re: BS said "there will be consequences from Rand's True Power use."
27/07/2010 03:48:32 AM
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Re: BS said "there will be consequences from Rand's True Power use."
27/07/2010 04:18:34 AM
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Re: I disagree about the TP aspect
26/07/2010 01:22:30 AM
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I don't know if Semirhage was sacrificed or not. Either way the Semirhage quote set up tGS 6 books
26/07/2010 02:29:59 AM
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You were right the first time
26/07/2010 03:02:22 AM
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I think the question is...
26/07/2010 08:27:17 AM
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Re: I think the question is...
27/07/2010 12:43:44 AM
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Re: I think the question is...
27/07/2010 01:15:29 AM
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Re: I think the question is...
27/07/2010 02:10:41 AM
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Re: I think the question is...
27/07/2010 03:17:01 AM
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I'd say that there was a pre-meditated plan or backup plan to sacrifice Semirhage
26/07/2010 09:02:44 AM
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I think SH simply didn't care about the CK access key
26/07/2010 09:17:11 AM
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Moridin and SH knew that the CK could never defeat the dark one so they were happy to leave it
26/07/2010 05:56:56 PM
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Unlikely, and stupid if true
26/07/2010 06:12:30 PM
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That wasn't the Choedan Kal, that was Shadar Logoth.
27/07/2010 12:11:46 AM
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Re: That wasn't the Choedan Kal, that was Shadar Logoth.
27/07/2010 01:29:29 AM
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I fail to see the relevance. *NM*
27/07/2010 02:06:27 AM
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the relevance is that it was impossible without the CK
27/07/2010 05:25:45 AM
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Are you certain?
27/07/2010 05:37:28 AM
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Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true
27/07/2010 01:36:53 AM
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Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true
27/07/2010 02:19:22 AM
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Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true
27/07/2010 02:43:39 AM
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Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true
27/07/2010 03:17:49 AM
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Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true
27/07/2010 03:39:07 AM
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Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true
27/07/2010 04:26:31 AM
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Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true
27/07/2010 01:44:19 AM
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??? The CK in the hands of a madman is exactly what the Dark One needs to destroy the pattern
27/07/2010 07:01:13 AM
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So why not give it to Moridin then?
27/07/2010 10:54:47 AM
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If their plan of taking Rand to Shayol Ghul suceeded then the CK was no longer needed
27/07/2010 03:39:58 PM
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Could be simple. How do you find an object that "lies hidden"?
27/07/2010 04:17:35 PM
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It could be, but I would still think they would have noticed the CK sitting next to the male a'dam
27/07/2010 04:34:45 PM
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This has been seen and commented before, by myself and others.
26/07/2010 03:36:51 PM
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Sorry I missed them. I would have been happy enough to comment there.
27/07/2010 03:43:46 AM
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Hands up if you don't believe in foreshadowing in this series
26/07/2010 04:27:14 PM
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Re: Hands up if you don't believe in foreshadowing in this series
26/07/2010 10:34:18 PM
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You confuse foreshadowing and predictability
27/07/2010 02:57:15 AM
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That last line had me laughing! (right on the money too, by the way) *NM*
27/07/2010 02:58:20 PM
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I don't believe in foreshadowing that you can figure out from the actual plot.
27/07/2010 08:42:11 PM
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