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If I may make a few somewhat irrelevant interjections... Digital_Eon Send a noteboard - 09/09/2009 04:44:45 AM

3. Tuon’s Truthspeaker may help her when she needs a penance for crappy behavior but she doesn’t demean her in the presence of the people who follow her and she doesn’t slap her or give her a penance in front of anyone.


I recall a mention (I don't think I recently read it, so someone must've mentioned it in a discussion, but I can't remember where, unfortunately) of a Truthspeaker doing just that, actually. Perhaps in Tuon's reflections? I think there was a story about a Truthspeaker slapping the Empress... Emperor?... in public a long time ago.

But even if that's wrong, Anath does this verbally to Tuon in public in WH chapter 18. So yes, Truthspeakers do this, too.


It makes me sick that most of the men in WoT are such spineless wimps that believe condescension, demeaning treatment, and verbal/physical abuse are signs of affection.


The sad thing is that this isn't just confined to the WoT world. I've heard of one (or one hundred) too many "romance" stories based around the same principles - only they feature women in the subordinate role, and these are written FOR women! It's sick to think that this is what people think is normal, much less get off on, especially in this day and age, but because of this, I can't say it *surprises* me, at least, to find it in WoT. And at least the WoT males have much more of a spine than these heroines do.


The Void is the ultimate painkiller – both physical and emotional - and gives focus like nothing else can. It’s something normal people can use to function when other people would be curled into a ball begging for mercy. Some people can’t achieve that Void if the pain is too intense but they can learn to do so. That’s what he needs right now, to not feel all the physical and emotional pain that is crippling him. In the Void, you can fight through pain and emotional trauma and everything else, but Rand isn’t really in the Void. He’s pretending to be in the Void, and actually manages it where his physical pain is concerned, but he’s mentally flogging himself over all the people who have died in the battle with him. That’s the pain that ruins his entire sense of right and wrong. He handicaps himself by refusing to harm the enemies when they’re female because he’s so afraid of losing his humanity (what he believes to be left of it). He’s making himself insane because his desires conflict so badly that there’s no way to achieve them all at once. What I believe is that if he truly embraces the Void and lets go of the self-inflicted guilt and the emotional pain he’s suffered, his vision (his vision of what must be done and how to achieve, as well as what actions are right and wrong morally, not his literal vision) will clear.


I know I'm not the only one who disagrees with this, but as I'm not as good as explaining thoughts or evidence as other posters, I'll attempt a short analogy instead. Physical pain can be a good thing for people. It tells you when something is going wrong, so that you won't do anything to make it worse. People who cannot feel pain (for whatever reason - genetics, or certain drugs, for example) can get themselves seriously injured or even kill themselves precisely because they don't feel pain. They can leave their hand on a hot stove and not feel it burning, or they'll break a limb and not get help for it. There are times when it needs to be suppressed for one to function, but at the same time, it also serves a vital purpose by existing - and it's dangerous to not have that pain.

I think the point others, including RJ, are trying to make is that Rand is not dealing with his pain properly. You've made an interesting point about him beating himself up over the women, and I think that's true - but he's also trying to escape from all of the pain by becoming harder and harder (and not just through the Void). If he can deal with the pain properly, he can move beyond it. That might be the whole point of "laughter and tears"; if Rand can finally cry - expressing that pain - maybe he'll finally be able to let the wounds heal. Sort of like the Bore keeping the DO's prison open?

Bah, I did a horrible job of explaining that. What I'm trying to say, I guess, is that it's not just about pain - it's about emotions in general. When Rand can let himself feel those emotions again, he can deal with the pain - let it go, as you said. But he won't accomplish that by separating himself from the world even more.


His desire to hurry up and get it over with isn’t about HIM, it’s about winning and, in his POV, the only way to win is if he can get to Tarmon Gai’don while he’s still drawing breath. And you know what? He’s right. If the boy dies before he can do what needs to be done, then his death will be pointless and the world will burn. As for his attitude that everyone can go screw themselves when he’s dead, well they can. He’ll have done his part and he won’t be around anymore.


As Lan said: death is lighter than a feather, duty heavier than a mountain. Dying is easy. LTT wants to die. I completely understand where Rand (and your thoughts) are coming from here, but waiting to get it over with is the easy route.

(Think Rand would care about a safe world for his babies...?)
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If I may make a few somewhat irrelevant interjections... - 09/09/2009 04:44:45 AM 1324 Views
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the dragon in COT chap 23 ornaments *NM* - 07/09/2009 01:28:58 PM 854 Views
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