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Re: Graendal being alive would make more of a statement... Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 14/07/2010 07:10:49 AM

Because I think her death was a statement about Rand's character. He went from not wanting to kill any women or innocents to nuking the palace where he was pretty sure Graendal probably was but her innocent pets certainly were. It's a huge leap for him. It's profound. I think if Graendal survived it that would invalidate a lot of what we felt when he did that, makes it less of a game changer.

But this doesn't make sense. Rand broke lose, violated his principles, violated good sense, and decided he's going to do whatever it takes to kill Graendal, so that he can leave Arad Doman safe and carry on with his "important tasks".

Well, he thinks he killed her, but Arad Doman is going to continue to suffer. Should it turn out that Graendal is alive, it will only add to the lesson Rand needed to learn that ignoring humanity and doing anything you want to to destroy an enemy is not right.

Should it be that Rand killing all those pets of hers was, in the end, futile, would only add to the theme.


Once the lesson has already been learned? That would be pretty futile.

All this is quite apart from the very logical reasons which point to her not dying.


There is no logical reason for her not dying. Every hypothesis on her survival has been thus:

Graendal is a genius,
[Any number of unsupported imagined possibilities],
Therefore, Graendal survived.

And ignoring all the evidence that indicates she is dead.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter

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What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? Sidious - 13/07/2010 09:00:05 AM 2041 Views
Too convulted to make any sense... Etzel - 13/07/2010 09:22:26 AM 1000 Views
Too convulted...... Jeordam - 14/07/2010 07:26:26 PM 1133 Views
The logic is rather... Etzel - 15/07/2010 05:09:30 PM 902 Views
What is the reason Delana is with Graendal? Artsapat - 13/07/2010 09:31:36 AM 1071 Views
Indeed... Etzel - 13/07/2010 10:06:32 AM 986 Views
Re: Indeed... Sidious - 13/07/2010 10:10:43 AM 1018 Views
That is wrong Etzel - 13/07/2010 10:19:32 AM 852 Views
Re: That is wrong Sidious - 13/07/2010 10:29:16 AM 949 Views
It's not at all... Etzel - 13/07/2010 10:35:49 AM 852 Views
Plus... Etzel - 13/07/2010 12:18:12 PM 786 Views
I agree with part and disagree with part. Logain - 14/07/2010 06:39:36 PM 857 Views
exactly darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 06:43:14 PM 877 Views
Does the Compulsion fit Graendal? Lohikaarme - 13/07/2010 03:40:36 PM 925 Views
sorry but no dacole - 13/07/2010 09:49:13 AM 984 Views
Exactly Etzel - 13/07/2010 10:14:06 AM 846 Views
Yeah dacole provided powerful evidence *NM* Sidious - 13/07/2010 10:25:13 AM 474 Views
Actually... Etzel - 13/07/2010 10:30:24 AM 894 Views
Or, as with Moghedien. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 13/07/2010 02:35:44 PM 1038 Views
It makes perfect sense. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 13/07/2010 02:33:09 PM 907 Views
I won't be 100% sure she's dead until we get a solid "she's toast" from either the text darius_sedai - 13/07/2010 04:21:18 PM 913 Views
This is actually the first thing that I thought of in that scene *NM* darius_sedai - 13/07/2010 04:08:48 PM 604 Views
Until I have absolute proof to the contrary.(Confirmation by Harriot or BS) krassos - 13/07/2010 04:20:49 PM 831 Views
If Graendal didn't know Rand would use balefire, why would she have Delana do the Compulsion? beetnemesis - 13/07/2010 04:57:10 PM 1080 Views
Yes, Graendal completely outsmarted Rand. Fanatic-Templar - 13/07/2010 05:56:30 PM 976 Views
I just think it's funny that people make fun of such a basic plan as convoluted. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 13/07/2010 06:33:44 PM 975 Views
Indeed... imagine how a truly complex plan would confound them Sidious - 13/07/2010 08:41:54 PM 875 Views
Re: Indeed... imagine how a truly complex plan would confound them Underwood - 13/07/2010 09:09:09 PM 952 Views
You draw too much attention to yourself, Mr Underwood *NM* Sidious - 14/07/2010 05:13:42 AM 577 Views
Ha, nice! *NM* Underwood - 14/07/2010 04:05:00 PM 472 Views
What are you talking about? I was agreeing with you, it's absurdly simple. Fanatic-Templar - 13/07/2010 09:27:22 PM 954 Views
Huh Sidious - 14/07/2010 05:22:51 AM 926 Views
Why did the lair explode? Fanatic-Templar - 14/07/2010 06:17:32 AM 880 Views
*NM* Skeeve the Great - 14/07/2010 01:58:17 PM 627 Views
While I generally agree with you...you missed an important detail. Mik - 14/07/2010 02:06:31 PM 1067 Views
What did Rand tell Ramshalan... Fanatic-Templar - 14/07/2010 04:29:04 PM 782 Views
Re: What did Rand tell Ramshalan... darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 04:52:11 PM 874 Views
... Fanatic-Templar - 14/07/2010 09:22:21 PM 1056 Views
he doesn't have to read Rands mind darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 09:41:59 PM 826 Views
Provide a quote. Fanatic-Templar - 15/07/2010 04:10:06 AM 964 Views
read the chapter darius_sedai - 10/08/2010 09:22:02 PM 785 Views
Right, that's why I asked. Because I know you can't. Fanatic-Templar - 10/08/2010 10:00:14 PM 909 Views
sigh ... always so aggressive ... why you gotta hate darius_sedai - 11/08/2010 03:23:31 AM 1003 Views
Was that what I asked for? Fanatic-Templar - 11/08/2010 04:05:41 AM 756 Views
sorry misunderstood what you were looking for darius_sedai - 11/08/2010 04:50:17 PM 792 Views
Oh if that's what you want darius_sedai - 11/08/2010 04:45:19 PM 929 Views
Yes, he pretty much says out loud that he can't just wipe out her fortress. Fanatic-Templar - 11/08/2010 06:57:39 PM 840 Views
Re: Yes, he pretty much says out loud that he can't just wipe out her fortress. darius_sedai - 11/08/2010 09:20:10 PM 835 Views
why does it have to be a well thought out plan? darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 04:14:17 PM 796 Views
She would have to teach her pawn Compulsion. Fanatic-Templar - 14/07/2010 04:30:12 PM 762 Views
No she'd only have to show Delana a weave to duplicate darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 04:48:24 PM 879 Views
Nonsense. Fanatic-Templar - 14/07/2010 09:30:01 PM 936 Views
yet Sorilea, can duplicate Cadsuane's weaves after one quick glance darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 09:52:01 PM 926 Views
Which ones? Fanatic-Templar - 15/07/2010 04:14:23 AM 812 Views
Re: Which ones? Sidious - 15/07/2010 05:25:28 AM 912 Views
Well. Fanatic-Templar - 15/07/2010 06:53:29 AM 785 Views
Actually I think it's one of those things that make AS so stupid darius_sedai - 10/08/2010 09:36:43 PM 885 Views
the Sorilea moment is when they first meet Semirhage darius_sedai - 10/08/2010 09:32:26 PM 926 Views
Thanks for the quote. Fanatic-Templar - 10/08/2010 10:02:36 PM 999 Views
Re: I just think it's funny that people make fun of such a basic plan as convoluted. saidarisnowtainted - 14/07/2010 05:40:11 PM 805 Views
She's so smart, she knows Rand will bring along Nynaeve to check Delana's Compulsion BlackAdder - 13/07/2010 08:32:19 PM 825 Views
we've seen any number of times that a Channeler can make an exact copy of weaves darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 04:10:41 PM 945 Views
Ramshalan didn't know the plan as you claim Skeeve the Great - 14/07/2010 04:16:29 PM 729 Views
he knew enough to alert Graendal to the danger darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 04:50:26 PM 971 Views
No. Don't think so. Tom - 13/07/2010 08:35:34 PM 792 Views
I so desperately want you to be right. Seriana Sedai - 14/07/2010 06:30:16 AM 960 Views
Graendal being alive would make more of a statement... fionwe1987 - 14/07/2010 06:53:48 AM 849 Views
Re: Graendal being alive would make more of a statement... Fanatic-Templar - 14/07/2010 07:10:49 AM 947 Views
Re: Graendal being alive would make more of a statement... Seriana Sedai - 15/07/2010 10:50:05 PM 865 Views
Yip Sidious - 14/07/2010 04:33:03 PM 851 Views
Lame. eucatastrophe - 14/07/2010 10:44:47 AM 798 Views
Not really darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 04:15:38 PM 753 Views
she's dead, get over it *NM* Yunalesca - 14/07/2010 01:12:15 PM 516 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? saidarisnowtainted - 14/07/2010 05:44:38 PM 801 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? RugbyPlayingAshaman - 14/07/2010 07:21:29 PM 889 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? saidarisnowtainted - 10/08/2010 09:12:17 PM 990 Views
Sounds about right. Wonder if he intends to try and get Callandor? *NM* Lord Haart - 13/08/2010 07:41:47 AM 305 Views
*shrug* Seems a bit complex to me... Jeordam - 14/07/2010 07:17:49 PM 1088 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? Underwood - 15/07/2010 04:38:09 PM 908 Views
Honestly, if she's still alive, how is she going to die? Gher - 16/07/2010 05:49:06 AM 742 Views
Ahh, just remembered that some people think some Forsaken will survive Tarmon Gai'don. Still... *NM* Gher - 16/07/2010 05:51:41 AM 411 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? scooter - 10/11/2010 04:09:41 AM 785 Views
Why? *Towers of Midnight spoilers* Fanatic-Templar - 10/11/2010 04:41:11 AM 773 Views
Because he was right, that's why. Terez - 11/11/2010 03:39:39 AM 782 Views
Not by my reckoning. *Still contains ToM spoilers* Fanatic-Templar - 11/11/2010 04:22:59 AM 721 Views
No one ever gets every detail right - it's impossible Terez - 11/11/2010 06:06:26 AM 1004 Views
Yes, but I don't think this was a detail. *Still ToM spoilers.* Fanatic-Templar - 11/11/2010 06:31:40 AM 882 Views
Re: Why? *Towers of Midnight spoilers* scooter - 11/11/2010 04:12:38 AM 884 Views
Please try to maintain some decorum. *Also ToM spoilers* Fanatic-Templar - 11/11/2010 04:45:08 AM 831 Views
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