Active Users:1236 Time:23/11/2024 02:44:34 AM
Why did the lair explode? Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 14/07/2010 06:17:32 AM
And what's the use in teaching him to act like you if you expect the lair to blow up? Why do you expect the lair to blow up? Why don't they intend to arrest you? Why is the chief of police coming in person? Who are they shooting at if they intend to just blow up the place anyway?

Anyway, here's a few things people seem to ignore.

Graendal didn't flee when someone warped in - she waited until someone came to her door, met her, got Compelled and sent back out. And then, people suggest, she fled. Why? Fleeing from Rand as soon as she felt him Travel to her location would be quite credible, this is what she said she would do multiple times. Fleeing after the visit is downright absurd. What if Rand hadn't sent Ramshalan first? Again, this plan that people like to hypothesise makes no sense - it requires her to leave herself open to far simpler attacks in order to counter the one, single, unexpected attack for no reason beyond fulfilling the desires of people who start off with the conclusion that she could have escaped.

Now, someone might say she had already fled when Ramshalan arrived and the pawn channeler did everything of her own accord. Of course, this makes little sense either. Barring that we have seen little from Graendal that indicates she would be willing to teach her talents to some insignificant sacrificial pawn, barring that we have no indication that such a sacrificial pawn even exists, barring that we have no reason to believe Aran'gar and Delana were ever at Graendal's place, and barring that even if they did, Graendal would still need to have someone else already in place to execute that plan before they came anyway - because if this was such a well-planned counter, then surely she had it prepared the moment Rand hinted at coming to Arad Doman, not when Aran'gar arrived - barring all that, it still doesn't make sense because said sacrificial pawn wouldn't know what orders to Compel into the target if Graendal wasn't there to tell her. And Graendal wouldn't know what orders to give unless she saw the visitor. Which brings us back to the previous point, Graendal had to be there when Ramshalan arrived, therefore, her fleeing makes no sense, because she would have fled after the expected threat came.

In order to avoid this, the sacrificial channeling pawn would have to not only be entrusted by Graendal with her Compulsion knowledge, but also imparted a significant array of her plans and schemes, so that the pawn could Compel according to her own judgment based on who the intruder was and what Graendal's plans entailed. It would also required Graendal to trust the sacrificial pawn to have correct judgment regarding her actions vis à vis the intruder. Anyone who actually thinks this sounds like something a Forsaken would do understand less than nothing about the Forsaken.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter

Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
Reply to message
What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? - 13/07/2010 09:00:05 AM 1967 Views
Too convulted to make any sense... - 13/07/2010 09:22:26 AM 927 Views
Too convulted...... - 14/07/2010 07:26:26 PM 1056 Views
The logic is rather... - 15/07/2010 05:09:30 PM 826 Views
What is the reason Delana is with Graendal? - 13/07/2010 09:31:36 AM 1001 Views
Indeed... - 13/07/2010 10:06:32 AM 916 Views
Re: Indeed... - 13/07/2010 10:10:43 AM 952 Views
That is wrong - 13/07/2010 10:19:32 AM 786 Views
Re: That is wrong - 13/07/2010 10:29:16 AM 876 Views
It's not at all... - 13/07/2010 10:35:49 AM 782 Views
Plus... - 13/07/2010 12:18:12 PM 723 Views
I agree with part and disagree with part. - 14/07/2010 06:39:36 PM 786 Views
exactly - 14/07/2010 06:43:14 PM 803 Views
Does the Compulsion fit Graendal? - 13/07/2010 03:40:36 PM 853 Views
sorry but no - 13/07/2010 09:49:13 AM 914 Views
Exactly - 13/07/2010 10:14:06 AM 802 Views
Yeah dacole provided powerful evidence *NM* - 13/07/2010 10:25:13 AM 445 Views
Actually... - 13/07/2010 10:30:24 AM 830 Views
Or, as with Moghedien. - 13/07/2010 02:35:44 PM 972 Views
It makes perfect sense. - 13/07/2010 02:33:09 PM 832 Views
This is actually the first thing that I thought of in that scene *NM* - 13/07/2010 04:08:48 PM 574 Views
Yes, Graendal completely outsmarted Rand. - 13/07/2010 05:56:30 PM 900 Views
I just think it's funny that people make fun of such a basic plan as convoluted. - 13/07/2010 06:33:44 PM 906 Views
Indeed... imagine how a truly complex plan would confound them - 13/07/2010 08:41:54 PM 814 Views
Re: Indeed... imagine how a truly complex plan would confound them - 13/07/2010 09:09:09 PM 881 Views
You draw too much attention to yourself, Mr Underwood *NM* - 14/07/2010 05:13:42 AM 547 Views
Ha, nice! *NM* - 14/07/2010 04:05:00 PM 441 Views
What are you talking about? I was agreeing with you, it's absurdly simple. - 13/07/2010 09:27:22 PM 881 Views
Huh - 14/07/2010 05:22:51 AM 854 Views
Why did the lair explode? - 14/07/2010 06:17:32 AM 799 Views
*NM* - 14/07/2010 01:58:17 PM 600 Views
While I generally agree with you...you missed an important detail. - 14/07/2010 02:06:31 PM 989 Views
What did Rand tell Ramshalan... - 14/07/2010 04:29:04 PM 706 Views
Re: What did Rand tell Ramshalan... - 14/07/2010 04:52:11 PM 807 Views
... - 14/07/2010 09:22:21 PM 994 Views
he doesn't have to read Rands mind - 14/07/2010 09:41:59 PM 750 Views
Provide a quote. - 15/07/2010 04:10:06 AM 888 Views
read the chapter - 10/08/2010 09:22:02 PM 711 Views
Right, that's why I asked. Because I know you can't. - 10/08/2010 10:00:14 PM 837 Views
sigh ... always so aggressive ... why you gotta hate - 11/08/2010 03:23:31 AM 921 Views
Was that what I asked for? - 11/08/2010 04:05:41 AM 683 Views
sorry misunderstood what you were looking for - 11/08/2010 04:50:17 PM 707 Views
Oh if that's what you want - 11/08/2010 04:45:19 PM 856 Views
why does it have to be a well thought out plan? - 14/07/2010 04:14:17 PM 721 Views
She would have to teach her pawn Compulsion. - 14/07/2010 04:30:12 PM 695 Views
No she'd only have to show Delana a weave to duplicate - 14/07/2010 04:48:24 PM 803 Views
Nonsense. - 14/07/2010 09:30:01 PM 846 Views
yet Sorilea, can duplicate Cadsuane's weaves after one quick glance - 14/07/2010 09:52:01 PM 849 Views
Which ones? - 15/07/2010 04:14:23 AM 742 Views
Re: Which ones? - 15/07/2010 05:25:28 AM 838 Views
Well. - 15/07/2010 06:53:29 AM 713 Views
Actually I think it's one of those things that make AS so stupid - 10/08/2010 09:36:43 PM 807 Views
the Sorilea moment is when they first meet Semirhage - 10/08/2010 09:32:26 PM 876 Views
Thanks for the quote. - 10/08/2010 10:02:36 PM 892 Views
Re: I just think it's funny that people make fun of such a basic plan as convoluted. - 14/07/2010 05:40:11 PM 729 Views
She's so smart, she knows Rand will bring along Nynaeve to check Delana's Compulsion - 13/07/2010 08:32:19 PM 741 Views
we've seen any number of times that a Channeler can make an exact copy of weaves - 14/07/2010 04:10:41 PM 846 Views
Ramshalan didn't know the plan as you claim - 14/07/2010 04:16:29 PM 666 Views
he knew enough to alert Graendal to the danger - 14/07/2010 04:50:26 PM 898 Views
No. Don't think so. - 13/07/2010 08:35:34 PM 717 Views
I so desperately want you to be right. - 14/07/2010 06:30:16 AM 884 Views
Graendal being alive would make more of a statement... - 14/07/2010 06:53:48 AM 805 Views
Re: Graendal being alive would make more of a statement... - 14/07/2010 07:10:49 AM 865 Views
Re: Graendal being alive would make more of a statement... - 15/07/2010 10:50:05 PM 775 Views
Yip - 14/07/2010 04:33:03 PM 780 Views
Lame. - 14/07/2010 10:44:47 AM 732 Views
Not really - 14/07/2010 04:15:38 PM 675 Views
she's dead, get over it *NM* - 14/07/2010 01:12:15 PM 486 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? - 14/07/2010 05:44:38 PM 727 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? - 14/07/2010 07:21:29 PM 817 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? - 10/08/2010 09:12:17 PM 929 Views
Sounds about right. Wonder if he intends to try and get Callandor? *NM* - 13/08/2010 07:41:47 AM 274 Views
*shrug* Seems a bit complex to me... - 14/07/2010 07:17:49 PM 1016 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? - 15/07/2010 04:38:09 PM 832 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? - 10/11/2010 04:09:41 AM 734 Views
Why? *Towers of Midnight spoilers* - 10/11/2010 04:41:11 AM 701 Views
Because he was right, that's why. - 11/11/2010 03:39:39 AM 715 Views
Not by my reckoning. *Still contains ToM spoilers* - 11/11/2010 04:22:59 AM 649 Views
No one ever gets every detail right - it's impossible - 11/11/2010 06:06:26 AM 939 Views
Yes, but I don't think this was a detail. *Still ToM spoilers.* - 11/11/2010 06:31:40 AM 803 Views
Re: Why? *Towers of Midnight spoilers* - 11/11/2010 04:12:38 AM 810 Views
Please try to maintain some decorum. *Also ToM spoilers* - 11/11/2010 04:45:08 AM 757 Views

Reply to Message