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Curse you, I had to go look up Nynaeve's Testing. Gher Send a noteboard - 01/07/2010 06:20:06 PM
But I think it's more like a dream, probably a very-slightly-lucid dream. Would you wake up from a dream if you knew it was important?


I don't remember any of my dreams, I can't really say how it feels to be dreaming. This said, from our perspective within the books, both Nynaeve and Egwene seemed quite convinced that what they were experiencing was real. 'Course, Egwene's case was different, she maintained some of her memories because of the ter'angreal reaction.

Now, you say "would you wake up from a dream if you knew it was important", and the answer is probably yes, but in order to wake up from that dream you have to fail to do something important... what would you trust? Sensory input and memories, or 'a feeling'? This is why I believe the test to be stupid. Participants are not choosing between reality and a dream, they know there is a choice to be made, but they have no knowledge of what is at stake.


It's been quite a while since I've read either Nynaeve's or Egwene's Accepted testing, and I wasn't sure I was arguing correctly or not.

EDIT: This is all from chapter 23 of TGH, page 334 in my edition.

1)Nynaeve's first test took her to a stone maze. She was constantly wondering Where am I? How did I get here? Later on, she thinks that she was faster than most boys in the Two Rivers, and then immediately wonders, The Two Rivers? What is that? So her memory was obviously fuzzy.

She then ran into Aginor, and after running from him for a bit, turned on him and started to gain the edge in the fight. She was being given a chance for revenge, a chance to do-over the events at the end of the first book.

It seems to me that this test reflected her fears, and then gave her a chance for one of her greatest desires.

2)Nynaeve's second test, she is taken back to Emond's Field, and Emond's Field in a state of neglect and under the grip of a evil dictator of a Wisdom (moreso than Nynaeve herself :P). She remembers more here, recognizing the town, thinking that she needs to give Bran al'Vere a stern talking to for letting his Inn get so rundown, and remembering Cenn Buie as an unpleasant man, but seldom openly rude.

But when Marin al'Vere asks her about Egwene, Nynaeve can't remember where she is and even thinks to herself: It seemed she should be able to remember.

They run out, run into the evil Wisdom, and then Nynaeve see's the doorway. Right as she's about to abandon Marin, she thinks: It is not real.

So more fears and whatnot. But she still seems to know it's all fake, even if she is confused about it.

(Gah, this is turning into a longer post than I meant.)

3) The third one is the happy hunky-dory Queen of Malkier fantasy. She's running through a flowery meadow with butterflies. Lan sweeps her up and kisses her. But even then, she's confused and surprised that he is doing this, and eventually pulls away, telling him to put her down, saying, "Not this. I cannot face this. Anything but this." Please, let me face Aginor again. Before being confused and wondering: Aginor?

She gets mad when Lan tells her he loves her, telling him she cannot marry him. He replies they are already married, with kids. She says, "I must go back," and turns and looks for the arch.

Then Lan asks if she's well, and there's the weirdness about Sharina Sedai (which is another discussion), all the while Nynaeve continually insists she won't be pulled into this. She starts to have dim memories of their life together, which grow stronger, but even mentions her horror at this.

She doesn't make it through the arch in time, and it disappears. She tells Lan this isn't real.

Then she thinks that she could stay here forever, but remembers: Nothing has changed. Egwene is alone in the White Tower. Rand will channel the Power and go mad. And what of Mat and Perrin? Can they take back any shred of their lives? And Moiraine, who tore all our lives apart, still walks free.

She then deliberately embraces the Power, despite being warned it's dangerous to do in the arches, and forms the arch in her mind, bringing it back and running through.


This one is almost completely desire, with little fear.






Looking back through this section, I'm more convinced of my position. The test tests their dedication to the Tower (though Nynaeve was more dedicated to Egwene, Rand, Mat, Perrin and revenge on Moiraine). It almost is like giving them an intensely addictive drug, and then seeing if they are strong enough to overcome. They have the option to stay hooked, and could stay under the influence forever. But if they are dedicated and possess enough willpower, then they will escape, and that is the kind of people the Tower wants. It doesn't test whether the candidates will forsake all responsibilities, but instead their strength of character.
"And it breaks my heart to look around, and see the unimpressed; who can't believe the emperor is dressed"~Fastball
2-7-1
This message last edited by Gher on 01/07/2010 at 06:24:14 PM
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