Semirhage threw the entire Seanchan empire into chaos
Graendal did for both Arad Domon and Shara
Ishamael has a list of evil deeds that goes on and on ... including founding the DFs and BA, as well as setting up the Seanchan return
Sammael and Demandred are like Lanfear IMO, neither of them has accomplished much that we know of.
Lanfear did what exactly? A list of "almosts".
Graendal did for both Arad Domon and Shara
Ishamael has a list of evil deeds that goes on and on ... including founding the DFs and BA, as well as setting up the Seanchan return
Sammael and Demandred are like Lanfear IMO, neither of them has accomplished much that we know of.
Lanfear did what exactly? A list of "almosts".
Of all the Forsaken, only Graendal can potentially claim to have done something. Ishamael's deeds have all been unravelled in less than three years, most recently by Egwene who decapitated the BA in one fell swoop.
You keep coming back to this as something you can't judge Forsaken prowess on, yet all the other top dog managed to serve humanity and society enough to earn the 3rd name.
Of course I come back to it, because it's the worst point ever. It's like saying which Nazi generals were the best based on their charity before WW2.
I also find it interesting that she gave herself the name Lanfear when the others were all given scornful names by the rest of the world. Names they embraced, but were given because of the atrocities they were committing. Meanwhile whiny little Mierin picks her own out!
I really don't see how this is a point against her. Personally if someone called me 'Betrayer of Hope' I'd tell them to piss off and rename myself Zeus. LOL
She pulled a few Freddy Kruger dream kills out of her ass and made the ordinary folk panic, nothing particularly grand (in terms of FS deeds) in that. Sure she was hip deep in atrocity ... but the BWB is pretty damn vague and most of the FS "bios" read very similarly.
Which is exactly why you can't say that Lanfear is a lesser Forsaken. What we know of the War of Power is scanty and murky, with only a few details.
It also says she "claimed TAR" ... that's like me saying "I'm the ruler of the Sun, but you can all still benefit from it without any repercussions" ... fact is Moghedien was more skilled in TAR, and we saw Ishamael do more with TAR over the books that Lanfear.
I don't deny that Lanfear isn't the best in TAR, but she claimed it as her own. I really don't see once again how this is relevant.
So? Graendal at least accomplished other things while taking her pleasures. Lanfear failed at everything we saw her attempt!
Depends how you look at it.
Lanfear accomplished nothing in the series. Every plot she was involved in failed or blew up in her face! She's kind of like a combination of Mesaana and Moghedien ... big talk, but winds up getting tangled in her own webs.
Dude, no Forsaken achieved anything (except perhaps Graendal). They're all toast.
Yet all the other FS use TAR pretty consistently and she never did more than make a side comment about "making free use of my realm". RJ making Moghedien more skilled in TAR and showing Ishamael use it more extensively than Lanfear would be like us finding out that Mesaana is actually better at compulsion than Graendal and Aran'gar more sadistic than Semrihage. I think it's unfortunate actually, RJ could have done much more with her.
Which is exactly what RJ did do. He showed that Moghedien could be as cruel as Semirhage in her handling of Liandrin, and he showed that Rahvin was very proficient at Compulsion.
Really? Then how did Graendal nail her in about 1 minute? I agree, and have said as much, that Lanfear was personally very formidable. We saw any number of times that she was impressive as an enemy 1-1 ... I just don't think RJ developed her outside of being AN UNSTOPPABLE JUGGERNAUT of OP Strength. I'm unimpressed with that.
Do you mean when Graendal compelled she and Moghedien? They were told not to attack Graendal. They just stood there waiting for SH.
Wheel of Time board admin
Fan of Lanfear
Fan of Lanfear
Forsaken translations
17/06/2010 09:16:36 AM
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Yeah...
17/06/2010 09:31:15 AM
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Semirhage is named as "The Lady of Pain" in KoD, by Rand...
17/06/2010 11:14:56 AM
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Do Semirhage & Bel'al actually mean those things or are they other nicknames?
17/06/2010 11:38:18 AM
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Nice ideas!
17/06/2010 02:10:43 PM
- 1297 Views
The beauty of a re-read is that there are so many little gems I'd forgotten
17/06/2010 02:48:19 PM
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Re: The beauty of a re-read is that there are so many little gems I'd forgotten
17/06/2010 04:43:48 PM
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Gai'shain = those sworn to peace in battle
17/06/2010 09:22:02 PM
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Gaidin = Brother to Battle ... which is what I think the OP meant to use
17/06/2010 09:32:20 PM
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I always thought Lanfear probably translated to something closer to a Moon translation
17/06/2010 02:43:04 PM
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it's the other way around...
17/06/2010 02:58:33 PM
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good point
17/06/2010 03:13:17 PM
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Re: good point
17/06/2010 04:05:50 PM
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Not to mention she STILL hasn't earned a 3rd (or in 4th) name
17/06/2010 04:16:57 PM
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What about Cyndane
17/06/2010 04:48:03 PM
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It must be her favorite one, since it's the only one she actually earned *NM*
17/06/2010 05:43:41 PM
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Well she earned Mierin *NM*
17/06/2010 08:27:05 PM
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how so? I figured mom and dad gave that one too her *NM*
17/06/2010 08:36:24 PM
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she earned it by being born... ha! gotcha *NM*
17/06/2010 08:39:10 PM
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HA! But technically I think her mother earned that *NM*
17/06/2010 08:58:30 PM
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Re: good point
17/06/2010 04:47:01 PM
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Again, a self-proclaimed ownership aimed at making her seem more impressive
17/06/2010 05:55:12 PM
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I disagree
17/06/2010 06:20:08 PM
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Personally I think that order was off the cuff
17/06/2010 08:55:28 PM
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Re: Personally I think that order was off the cuff
17/06/2010 09:02:06 PM
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Disagree
17/06/2010 09:28:51 PM
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Re: Disagree
17/06/2010 09:41:23 PM
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I'm not being very clear
17/06/2010 10:14:10 PM
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Re: I'm not being very clear
18/06/2010 08:06:56 AM
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Re: I'm not being very clear
18/06/2010 03:33:12 PM
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Re: I'm not being very clear
18/06/2010 04:35:12 PM
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The point isn't if Lanfear has the skill, it's that it was poorly shown.
18/06/2010 05:31:11 PM
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The statement makes clear that those 6 were all quite impressive
17/06/2010 10:51:49 PM
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I don't see that bearing out in the text at all
17/06/2010 10:57:36 PM
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Like Etzel I don't agree
17/06/2010 08:30:37 PM
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I think she's a weak villain
17/06/2010 08:58:01 PM
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Re: I think she's a weak villain
17/06/2010 09:03:47 PM
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and slaughter the Seanchan empress on her own throne thowing the empire into chaos
17/06/2010 09:30:27 PM
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Semirhage has done more than anyone since Ishy destroyed the Ten Nations
18/06/2010 02:06:30 AM
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Regarding "Demandred" ...
17/06/2010 04:51:43 PM
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I always thought it was a coincidence
17/06/2010 08:32:39 PM
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Lan/Lanfear isn't a coincidence...
18/06/2010 12:19:58 AM
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Re: Lan/Lanfear isn't a coincidence...
20/06/2010 07:01:55 PM
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Perhaps Lan-fear meaning Night-Daughter would make more sense
17/06/2010 06:00:35 PM
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Re: Perhaps Lan-fear meaning Night-Daughter would make more sense
18/06/2010 04:23:38 PM
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And Dragon translations...
17/06/2010 10:53:02 PM
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Re: And Dragon translations...
17/06/2010 11:01:25 PM
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Why would they call themselves "Spears of the fictional creature"?
18/06/2010 12:29:49 AM
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It was meant as a joke, but really it could be some generic term rather than meaning
18/06/2010 06:00:36 AM
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Except that they don't know what a 'Dragon' is, except as it relates to Lews Therin/Rand
18/06/2010 05:11:30 PM
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like I said, I was just making a joke of it ... you are quite right with "Rand's Spears"
18/06/2010 05:32:42 PM
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But of course the NT word for Dragon isn't Dragon
18/06/2010 05:45:34 PM
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If "aman" is the Old Tongue name for Dragon, maybe "DEMANdred" contains a reference to Dragon too...
20/06/2010 08:13:35 PM
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"Dragon Wannabe" *NM*
20/06/2010 09:23:09 PM
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Lizard? *NM*
20/06/2010 10:04:21 PM
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"Scaled Worm"... though I doubt he'd take that name up in pride . *NM*
22/06/2010 01:23:03 AM
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It's probably too much to attempt to guess at the meanings of words...
17/06/2010 10:58:06 PM
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