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Re: Disagree Sidious Send a noteboard - 17/06/2010 09:41:23 PM

Semirhage threw the entire Seanchan empire into chaos
Graendal did for both Arad Domon and Shara
Ishamael has a list of evil deeds that goes on and on ... including founding the DFs and BA, as well as setting up the Seanchan return

Sammael and Demandred are like Lanfear IMO, neither of them has accomplished much that we know of.

Lanfear did what exactly? A list of "almosts".


Of all the Forsaken, only Graendal can potentially claim to have done something. Ishamael's deeds have all been unravelled in less than three years, most recently by Egwene who decapitated the BA in one fell swoop.

You keep coming back to this as something you can't judge Forsaken prowess on, yet all the other top dog managed to serve humanity and society enough to earn the 3rd name.


Of course I come back to it, because it's the worst point ever. It's like saying which Nazi generals were the best based on their charity before WW2.

I also find it interesting that she gave herself the name Lanfear when the others were all given scornful names by the rest of the world. Names they embraced, but were given because of the atrocities they were committing. Meanwhile whiny little Mierin picks her own out!


I really don't see how this is a point against her. Personally if someone called me 'Betrayer of Hope' I'd tell them to piss off and rename myself Zeus. LOL

She pulled a few Freddy Kruger dream kills out of her ass and made the ordinary folk panic, nothing particularly grand (in terms of FS deeds) in that. Sure she was hip deep in atrocity ... but the BWB is pretty damn vague and most of the FS "bios" read very similarly.


Which is exactly why you can't say that Lanfear is a lesser Forsaken. What we know of the War of Power is scanty and murky, with only a few details.

It also says she "claimed TAR" ... that's like me saying "I'm the ruler of the Sun, but you can all still benefit from it without any repercussions" ... fact is Moghedien was more skilled in TAR, and we saw Ishamael do more with TAR over the books that Lanfear.


I don't deny that Lanfear isn't the best in TAR, but she claimed it as her own. I really don't see once again how this is relevant.

So? Graendal at least accomplished other things while taking her pleasures. Lanfear failed at everything we saw her attempt!


Depends how you look at it.

Lanfear accomplished nothing in the series. Every plot she was involved in failed or blew up in her face! She's kind of like a combination of Mesaana and Moghedien ... big talk, but winds up getting tangled in her own webs.


Dude, no Forsaken achieved anything (except perhaps Graendal). They're all toast.

Yet all the other FS use TAR pretty consistently and she never did more than make a side comment about "making free use of my realm". RJ making Moghedien more skilled in TAR and showing Ishamael use it more extensively than Lanfear would be like us finding out that Mesaana is actually better at compulsion than Graendal and Aran'gar more sadistic than Semrihage. I think it's unfortunate actually, RJ could have done much more with her.


Which is exactly what RJ did do. He showed that Moghedien could be as cruel as Semirhage in her handling of Liandrin, and he showed that Rahvin was very proficient at Compulsion.

Really? Then how did Graendal nail her in about 1 minute? I agree, and have said as much, that Lanfear was personally very formidable. We saw any number of times that she was impressive as an enemy 1-1 ... I just don't think RJ developed her outside of being AN UNSTOPPABLE JUGGERNAUT of OP Strength. I'm unimpressed with that.


Do you mean when Graendal compelled she and Moghedien? They were told not to attack Graendal. They just stood there waiting for SH.
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Forsaken translations - 17/06/2010 09:16:36 AM 2274 Views
Yeah... - 17/06/2010 09:31:15 AM 1568 Views
Semirhage is named as "The Lady of Pain" in KoD, by Rand... - 17/06/2010 11:14:56 AM 1908 Views
You are right... - 17/06/2010 11:31:05 AM 1467 Views
Do Semirhage & Bel'al actually mean those things or are they other nicknames? - 17/06/2010 11:38:18 AM 1327 Views
On Be'lal - 17/06/2010 11:42:31 AM 1239 Views
Nice ideas! - 17/06/2010 02:10:43 PM 1372 Views
Gai'shain = those sworn to peace in battle - 17/06/2010 09:22:02 PM 1202 Views
Gaidin = Brother to Battle ... which is what I think the OP meant to use - 17/06/2010 09:32:20 PM 1136 Views
Presumably he meant "Dai Shan", or "Battle Lord", as he said. - 17/06/2010 10:37:07 PM 1216 Views
or that *NM* - 17/06/2010 10:45:49 PM 691 Views
About Aginor - 17/06/2010 12:50:04 PM 1534 Views
Great! - 17/06/2010 02:11:47 PM 1327 Views
Some Old Tongue translations - 17/06/2010 01:34:18 PM 1244 Views
ah Thanks! *NM* - 17/06/2010 02:12:00 PM 704 Views
Good luck with that - 17/06/2010 02:36:36 PM 1289 Views
Re: Good luck with that - 17/06/2010 03:24:52 PM 1145 Views
Very interesting! - 17/06/2010 08:34:36 PM 1231 Views
As always, - 20/06/2010 02:25:07 PM 1136 Views
I always thought Lanfear probably translated to something closer to a Moon translation - 17/06/2010 02:43:04 PM 1431 Views
it's the other way around... - 17/06/2010 02:58:33 PM 1191 Views
good point - 17/06/2010 03:13:17 PM 1190 Views
Re: good point - 17/06/2010 04:05:50 PM 1252 Views
Not to mention she STILL hasn't earned a 3rd (or in 4th) name - 17/06/2010 04:16:57 PM 1233 Views
What about Cyndane - 17/06/2010 04:48:03 PM 1131 Views
It must be her favorite one, since it's the only one she actually earned *NM* - 17/06/2010 05:43:41 PM 616 Views
Well she earned Mierin *NM* - 17/06/2010 08:27:05 PM 766 Views
how so? I figured mom and dad gave that one too her *NM* - 17/06/2010 08:36:24 PM 643 Views
she earned it by being born... ha! gotcha *NM* - 17/06/2010 08:39:10 PM 604 Views
HA! But technically I think her mother earned that *NM* - 17/06/2010 08:58:30 PM 534 Views
well she earned Eronaile by virtue of her genetics *NM* - 17/06/2010 09:04:36 PM 617 Views
Tee hee ... I'd credit her father on that one *NM* - 17/06/2010 09:31:19 PM 667 Views
Re: good point - 17/06/2010 04:47:01 PM 1264 Views
Again, a self-proclaimed ownership aimed at making her seem more impressive - 17/06/2010 05:55:12 PM 1139 Views
I disagree - 17/06/2010 06:20:08 PM 1253 Views
Personally I think that order was off the cuff - 17/06/2010 08:55:28 PM 1367 Views
Re: Personally I think that order was off the cuff - 17/06/2010 09:02:06 PM 1341 Views
Disagree - 17/06/2010 09:28:51 PM 1283 Views
Re: Disagree - 17/06/2010 09:41:23 PM 1216 Views
I'm not being very clear - 17/06/2010 10:14:10 PM 1223 Views
Re: I'm not being very clear - 18/06/2010 08:06:56 AM 3596 Views
Re: I'm not being very clear - 18/06/2010 03:33:12 PM 1234 Views
Re: I'm not being very clear - 18/06/2010 04:35:12 PM 1085 Views
The point isn't if Lanfear has the skill, it's that it was poorly shown. - 18/06/2010 05:31:11 PM 1231 Views
I think it's shown well - 18/06/2010 06:10:55 PM 1336 Views
your own examples show only OP prowess though! - 18/06/2010 06:54:38 PM 1335 Views
How can you say Semirhage didn't achieve anything? - 18/06/2010 01:59:44 AM 1278 Views
I'm partial to Sammael myself. - 18/06/2010 02:24:49 AM 1084 Views
The statement makes clear that those 6 were all quite impressive - 17/06/2010 10:51:49 PM 1057 Views
I don't see that bearing out in the text at all - 17/06/2010 10:57:36 PM 1248 Views
Well, with this point I don't disagree.. *NM* - 17/06/2010 11:10:34 PM 1099 Views
- 17/06/2010 11:12:58 PM 1233 Views
Lanfear's motives were never Shadow-driven - 20/06/2010 06:47:22 PM 1225 Views
not ballsy, just psycho - 20/06/2010 07:25:46 PM 1239 Views
Like Etzel I don't agree - 17/06/2010 08:30:37 PM 1115 Views
I think she's a weak villain - 17/06/2010 08:58:01 PM 1091 Views
Re: I think she's a weak villain - 17/06/2010 09:03:47 PM 1184 Views
Semirhage has done more than anyone since Ishy destroyed the Ten Nations - 18/06/2010 02:06:30 AM 1177 Views
Regarding "Demandred" ... - 17/06/2010 04:51:43 PM 1194 Views
I always thought it was a coincidence - 17/06/2010 08:32:39 PM 1309 Views
Lan/Lanfear isn't a coincidence... - 18/06/2010 12:19:58 AM 1151 Views
Wow. I'm not quite sure where this came from... *NM* - 18/06/2010 05:24:25 PM 590 Views
Re: Lan/Lanfear isn't a coincidence... - 20/06/2010 07:01:55 PM 1304 Views
No, it was supposed to be a joke. - 20/06/2010 07:23:19 PM 1211 Views
Re: No, it was supposed to be a joke. - 21/06/2010 06:36:44 AM 1254 Views
Re: I always thought it was a coincidence - 18/06/2010 05:20:11 PM 1240 Views
Perhaps Lan-fear meaning Night-Daughter would make more sense - 17/06/2010 06:00:35 PM 1193 Views
Interesting *NM* - 17/06/2010 08:33:03 PM 687 Views
Re: Perhaps Lan-fear meaning Night-Daughter would make more sense - 18/06/2010 04:23:38 PM 1424 Views
Regarding "Far Dareis Mai" ... - 18/06/2010 05:28:41 PM 1140 Views
We also have din in Mera'din/Brotherless and far in Far Madding - 18/06/2010 08:16:14 PM 1242 Views
Re: Regarding "Far Dareis Mai" ... - 20/06/2010 03:56:38 AM 1368 Views
And Dragon translations... - 17/06/2010 10:53:02 PM 1305 Views
Re: And Dragon translations... - 17/06/2010 11:01:25 PM 1176 Views
But of course the NT word for Dragon isn't Dragon - 18/06/2010 05:45:34 PM 1385 Views
Ah yes, that sounds reasonable. *NM* - 18/06/2010 08:28:54 PM 650 Views
If "aman" is the Old Tongue name for Dragon, maybe "DEMANdred" contains a reference to Dragon too... - 20/06/2010 08:13:35 PM 1421 Views
"Dragon Wannabe" *NM* - 20/06/2010 09:23:09 PM 489 Views
Lizard? *NM* - 20/06/2010 10:04:21 PM 657 Views
"Scaled Worm"... though I doubt he'd take that name up in pride . *NM* - 22/06/2010 01:23:03 AM 585 Views
It's probably too much to attempt to guess at the meanings of words... - 17/06/2010 10:58:06 PM 947 Views
A nice article about the Old Tongue and my ramblings - 18/06/2010 11:14:24 AM 7390 Views

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