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Then by your own definition you do not have to be significantly stronger to shield someone darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 15/06/2010 11:28:44 PM
Let me get something straight. If Lanfear was incapable of shielding Rand at the time, he would have had no need to cut her weaves. Just like he didn't have to cut Verin and Alanna's shield, or how Graendal didn't have to cut Verin's shield at the Cleansing.

That kind of strength advantage is simply not available to Rand against Lanfear.

Now, at this time, he was as strong as Rahvin, who is as strong as Sammael, who is nearly as strong as LTT. There isn't any huge strength deficit from LTT that would magically make Rand be able to defeat Lanfear's shield in the future.


Rand's lack of knowledge of how to counter saidar was his major deficiency here.

But the fact remains, to shield someone already holding the Source is almost impossible unless you are significantly stronger than they are, or FAR more skilled than they are.

Is Lanfear Much stronger or much more skilled than Lews Therin? NO. Therefore, she cannot shield him at his full potential and skill level.


Nynaeve could as easily have shielded Talaan, but Talaan was too deft for her.


If equal strength women can shield one another based on skill then it is not necessary to be MUCH stronger than someone in order to shield them.

I think what you are getting at is what Sidious is talking about.

Egwene is 2x Sheriam, and in TGS slaps a shield over her, cutting her from the source without breaking a sweat, she is both overwhelmingly stronger and more skillful/deft than Sheriam. Thus she "smothered" her.

On the other hand Nynaeve failed to Shield Elayne despite a goodly strength difference, obviously because her shield was not woven deftly enough, but it also shows that Nynaeve is not enough stronger than Elayne to "smother". In this case Nynaeve needed to either be even stronger than Elayne than she was, or weave a far more deft shield to cut Elayne off from the source.

Later, Nynaeve is able to shield (and them become shielded) by an equally strong channeler. Meaning the shields in question had the necessary deftness to perform the task.

What this means is that Lanfear was able to weave a shield with sufficient deftness and strength to in fact cut Rand from the source, but he was skilled enough to defend himself and thus avoid being cut off (if only just). I agree that in all likelihood at full Strength Lanfear would be unable to shield Rand, but it would be close IMO as Rand was already at least as strong as an average strength male Forsaken. 2 Forsaken would easily smother Rand.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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No three women could block him from the Source... - 15/06/2010 06:52:17 PM 2039 Views
I think that is total BS, since the books have proved otherwise more than once... - 15/06/2010 07:22:16 PM 1120 Views
I think he means that it would take three such women to smother him - 15/06/2010 07:45:03 PM 1191 Views
Ahhh... I can kind of agree with that... - 15/06/2010 08:05:46 PM 1261 Views
Yes, that is what he meant. Another interesting twist... - 16/06/2010 01:34:18 AM 1227 Views
Agreed. Good analysis. - 16/06/2010 07:48:36 AM 1202 Views
Re: I think that is total BS, since the books have proved otherwise more than once... - 15/06/2010 08:17:47 PM 1140 Views
Huh? - 15/06/2010 08:19:21 PM 1241 Views
Re: Huh? - 15/06/2010 08:31:17 PM 1073 Views
- 15/06/2010 08:43:12 PM 1147 Views
Re: - 15/06/2010 08:47:05 PM 975 Views
No, this is before. - 15/06/2010 08:49:13 PM 1046 Views
Well that's a different quote from the one you used before, and this one shows Lanfear not succeedin - 15/06/2010 08:52:00 PM 1052 Views
I never used a quote before. And there's no quote where Lanfear's shield is not succeeding. - 15/06/2010 08:52:28 PM 924 Views
Simple answer to settle it: - 15/06/2010 09:00:22 PM 936 Views
So Talaan is God? - 15/06/2010 09:04:44 PM 1103 Views
It Rand had half Lews Therin's skill at the time, she would stand no chance..SKILL was her advantage - 15/06/2010 09:08:41 PM 1047 Views
Skill has nothing to do with how strong a person is. - 15/06/2010 09:11:13 PM 1024 Views
So? - 15/06/2010 09:15:01 PM 1021 Views
Nope, YOU said he was talking about smothering him, whatever that's supposed to mean... - 15/06/2010 09:26:53 PM 977 Views
Oh My God! That's such utter tripe... EDIT... - 15/06/2010 09:30:29 PM 1068 Views
That's exactly how I understood you. - 15/06/2010 09:30:42 PM 913 Views
Nope. 6 Aes Sedai couldn't take Raolain Darksbane or Yurian Stonebow...Semirhage = 3 Aes Sedai - 15/06/2010 08:26:21 PM 983 Views
Lanfear can do it alone - 15/06/2010 08:45:09 PM 997 Views
She ATTEMPTS to cut him off, when he is not at full strength or full training yet... - 15/06/2010 08:55:39 PM 951 Views
Bah! - 15/06/2010 08:58:26 PM 992 Views
I repeat: You cannot shield someone unless you are significantly stronger than they are... - 15/06/2010 09:02:55 PM 931 Views
Explain Talaan shielding Nynaeve then. Or the two BA shielding her. - 15/06/2010 09:05:21 PM 1913 Views
It becomes a battle of skill then... - 15/06/2010 09:09:42 PM 1102 Views
BUT... - 15/06/2010 09:12:47 PM 1019 Views
Then by your own definition you do not have to be significantly stronger to shield someone - 15/06/2010 11:28:44 PM 981 Views
Re: "he would have had no need to cut her weaves" - 15/06/2010 09:03:39 PM 948 Views
No. There's a difference. - 15/06/2010 09:07:09 PM 1128 Views
Oh come on... - 15/06/2010 08:48:56 PM 1146 Views
I know you are not that ignorant... - 15/06/2010 09:07:02 PM 928 Views
But that isn't true... - 15/06/2010 09:10:37 PM 976 Views
Let me spell it out for you... - 15/06/2010 09:18:04 PM 978 Views
Re: Let me spell it out for you... - 15/06/2010 09:21:02 PM 961 Views
Don't put words in my, or Lews Therin's, mouth... - 15/06/2010 09:33:50 PM 1116 Views
??? - 15/06/2010 10:43:28 PM 1126 Views
+1. It ridiculous comparison. Rand even didn't know how to shield a woman. - 15/06/2010 09:22:22 PM 981 Views
Now that's a ridiculous comparison - 15/06/2010 09:24:45 PM 1099 Views
Exactly! - 15/06/2010 09:28:20 PM 1115 Views
Touchy point, heh? - 15/06/2010 09:28:47 PM 1051 Views
Then how come Lanfear never died? We know she made attempts to capture him. - 15/06/2010 09:31:20 PM 1015 Views
Whom? LTT? Can you elaborate? - 15/06/2010 09:33:25 PM 1075 Views
If you wish... - 15/06/2010 09:34:38 PM 825 Views
Re: If you wish... - 15/06/2010 09:36:30 PM 844 Views
Whyever not? - 15/06/2010 09:39:22 PM 917 Views
Re: Whyever not? - 15/06/2010 09:41:22 PM 796 Views
Even in that situation - 15/06/2010 09:43:04 PM 1073 Views
Re: Even in that situation - 15/06/2010 09:47:36 PM 1078 Views
Okay... - 15/06/2010 09:59:36 PM 1017 Views
Re: Okay... - 15/06/2010 10:39:01 PM 990 Views
So, if it doesn't agree with your view, its fuzzy, even when that is what the books say? *NM* - 15/06/2010 10:42:48 PM 575 Views
What? - 15/06/2010 10:45:16 PM 934 Views
If we use your interpretation of the statements. *NM* - 15/06/2010 10:49:21 PM 484 Views
Re: If we use your interpretation of the statements. - 15/06/2010 10:54:48 PM 863 Views
Okay, here's what I think you're saying... - 15/06/2010 11:00:19 PM 1036 Views
Re: Okay, here's what I think you're saying... - 15/06/2010 11:10:57 PM 992 Views
Sorry for the mixup... BUT... - 16/06/2010 12:28:31 AM 1045 Views
I cannot believe you're so obtuse... or then again, I can. - 15/06/2010 09:26:04 PM 1067 Views
About how strong you have to be to shield someone... - 15/06/2010 09:14:31 PM 804 Views
Re: No three women could block him from the Source... - 16/06/2010 04:00:00 PM 912 Views
+1 - 16/06/2010 05:54:51 PM 995 Views
- 16/06/2010 08:48:39 PM 1180 Views
Re: - 16/06/2010 08:56:31 PM 851 Views
indeed you have - 16/06/2010 09:34:22 PM 1101 Views
Bad analogy... - 17/06/2010 04:23:31 AM 896 Views
Uh... - 17/06/2010 09:08:01 AM 936 Views
I disagree. - 16/06/2010 04:03:52 PM 1072 Views
That's wrong. Rand said 2 AS + Moghedien could threaten him - 16/06/2010 05:17:33 PM 1048 Views
Huh. I forgot about that. - 17/06/2010 04:29:38 PM 1136 Views
go back a few posts... - 17/06/2010 03:41:42 AM 984 Views
yet Nynaeve and Talaan can shield one another - 17/06/2010 05:57:09 AM 980 Views
I'd like to think Egwene, Elayne and Aviendha could - 17/06/2010 04:19:22 PM 910 Views
Agreed - 17/06/2010 05:59:39 PM 808 Views
I don't think there's any theme - 17/06/2010 08:25:52 PM 1115 Views
I don't think they are meant to controll him in someway - 17/06/2010 10:21:09 PM 973 Views
They have a separate trinity. - 18/06/2010 06:51:27 PM 993 Views
They might be able to, but then they are not 3 women of <b>average AS</b> strength - 17/06/2010 07:10:14 PM 964 Views
They would be far more than 3 average AS - 17/06/2010 08:07:30 PM 979 Views
No, that's not right either. - 18/06/2010 12:37:37 AM 1016 Views
I disagree - 18/06/2010 06:07:10 AM 1115 Views
Another related quote - 18/06/2010 07:49:33 PM 963 Views
well, in the same book about 5 minutes after Lanfear almost kicks Rands ass - 18/06/2010 08:11:49 PM 1017 Views

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