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??? darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 15/06/2010 10:43:28 PM

Yes, because he did not know how to resist them. If you don't resist, then of course she can cut your connection. Just holding onto the Source means you leave yourself defenseless.

That isn't true at all. Verin and co. threw a shield at Graendal. Graendal did nothing, yet the shield bounced off. Verin and Alanna threw a shield at Rand in LoC. He did nothing, and the shield bounced off.

Of course six Aes Sedai can hold him. But it takes a LOT more to cut you off if you are already holding the Source. Come on, that's One Power 101. Even you know that.

Yes, but who said the six sisters against the False Dragons were trying to shield him? It was a battle, by all accounts, and not a shielding match.

Again, to shield someone who is already holding the Source, you must be MUCH stronger than they are. Something like 50% stronger, if the books are any indication. Was Rand sure that he is 50% stronger than 7 Aes Sedai, whose individual strengths he doesn't know, and who might or might not have angreal with them?

Was Talaan even .1% stronger than Nynaeve?

How was he to know.

Because he has an idea of how strong AS are from seeing how strong the strongest among them is?
If one of them was Moghedien, she would be dangerous enough. Maybe not to shield him, but very dangerous to confront.

She would be able to shield him. Unless he cut her shield.


The closer you are in strength, the more uncertain it becomes that you will be able to shield someone. If you are exactly equal, the chances of success are very slim. In fact, in Nynaeve's case, it was proven that although she was equal to Talaan, she was unable to shield her, and was in fact shielded herself because Talaan was more skilled.

So it became a battle of skill, which Nynaeve lost.

As for Verin and Graendal's cases. See above. Verin and Alanna's shield was hopelessly weaker than Rand's connection to the source. So much weaker that he did not even have to bother to resist it.

Same with Graendal and Verin's case. Graendal was channeling through an angreal and the thickness of her connection was either exceeded Verin's shield strength by too great a margin, or Verin's shield was of insufficient precision to slice through it.

We know Lanfear is very dexterous, and can therefore no doubt create shield with a much sharper "edge", meaning in effect that she can punch above her weight in strength.

But as I said before, if it was Lews Therin in front of her, instead of the untrained, ignorant Rand, she would have had no chance.

Ishamael could not even cut Lews Therin off from the source. How on earth could Lanfear hope to do it then?


There's no proof that Rand made a massive jump in strength and skill after this. A chapter later he fought Rahvin, and earlier in the book he got into a direct battle with Sammael. How unskilled could he be compared to Lews Therin? Are you telling me that you could add a second Lanfear and Lews Therin would be able to hold them off?


Rand only "remembered" how to slice a weave of saidar in the midst of fending of Lanfear's attack at the Docks. Thanks to Asmodaen's teachings, he had far more knowledge and practice in how to counter weaves of saidin, than weaves of saidar.

So yes, he DOES make significant leaps in knowledge after FoH. He is not even at full knowledge yet at any time in the series, until he merges with Lews Therin at the end of Book 12.

Regarding strength: Whatever the difference in strength between Rahvin and Lews Therin was, that is how much Rand still grows after FoH. And since Rahvin was never mentioned as being close to Lews Therin in strength, it may well be a significant increase.

Lastly, nice try in attempting to catch me with a sneaky one. Lews Therin never said it would take 3 women as strong as Lanfear to shield him from the source. He said it would take 3 women as strong as Semirhage or Mesaaana.

I believe that two Lanfears WOULD be able to shield him, and that merely strengthens my belief that there is a larger gap between Lanfear and the other female Forsaken than 5-10% that some of you propose.


When did Lanfear become that much stronger than the others? If she was really like 25% stronger than the other women, Graendal would never have challenged her openly in tFoH. Rhavin would have never wondered if that battle would last long enough for Balefire to be used, and the other FS women would not be anywhere close to strong enough to have survived. Moghedien is probably about 15% weaker than Lanfear, and she is the outlier!

Why do people feel it so necessary to make certain characters so strong? The FS measure each other on their skills and deeds, not their OP strength.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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No three women could block him from the Source... - 15/06/2010 06:52:17 PM 1928 Views
I think that is total BS, since the books have proved otherwise more than once... - 15/06/2010 07:22:16 PM 1005 Views
I think he means that it would take three such women to smother him - 15/06/2010 07:45:03 PM 1068 Views
Ahhh... I can kind of agree with that... - 15/06/2010 08:05:46 PM 1135 Views
Yes, that is what he meant. Another interesting twist... - 16/06/2010 01:34:18 AM 1116 Views
Agreed. Good analysis. - 16/06/2010 07:48:36 AM 1091 Views
Re: I think that is total BS, since the books have proved otherwise more than once... - 15/06/2010 08:17:47 PM 1025 Views
Huh? - 15/06/2010 08:19:21 PM 1128 Views
Re: Huh? - 15/06/2010 08:31:17 PM 950 Views
- 15/06/2010 08:43:12 PM 1029 Views
Re: - 15/06/2010 08:47:05 PM 859 Views
No, this is before. - 15/06/2010 08:49:13 PM 938 Views
Well that's a different quote from the one you used before, and this one shows Lanfear not succeedin - 15/06/2010 08:52:00 PM 934 Views
I never used a quote before. And there's no quote where Lanfear's shield is not succeeding. - 15/06/2010 08:52:28 PM 811 Views
Simple answer to settle it: - 15/06/2010 09:00:22 PM 830 Views
So Talaan is God? - 15/06/2010 09:04:44 PM 989 Views
It Rand had half Lews Therin's skill at the time, she would stand no chance..SKILL was her advantage - 15/06/2010 09:08:41 PM 942 Views
Skill has nothing to do with how strong a person is. - 15/06/2010 09:11:13 PM 914 Views
So? - 15/06/2010 09:15:01 PM 896 Views
Nope, YOU said he was talking about smothering him, whatever that's supposed to mean... - 15/06/2010 09:26:53 PM 859 Views
Oh My God! That's such utter tripe... EDIT... - 15/06/2010 09:30:29 PM 958 Views
That's exactly how I understood you. - 15/06/2010 09:30:42 PM 801 Views
Nope. 6 Aes Sedai couldn't take Raolain Darksbane or Yurian Stonebow...Semirhage = 3 Aes Sedai - 15/06/2010 08:26:21 PM 871 Views
Lanfear can do it alone - 15/06/2010 08:45:09 PM 875 Views
She ATTEMPTS to cut him off, when he is not at full strength or full training yet... - 15/06/2010 08:55:39 PM 843 Views
Bah! - 15/06/2010 08:58:26 PM 873 Views
I repeat: You cannot shield someone unless you are significantly stronger than they are... - 15/06/2010 09:02:55 PM 826 Views
Explain Talaan shielding Nynaeve then. Or the two BA shielding her. - 15/06/2010 09:05:21 PM 1813 Views
It becomes a battle of skill then... - 15/06/2010 09:09:42 PM 985 Views
BUT... - 15/06/2010 09:12:47 PM 905 Views
Re: "he would have had no need to cut her weaves" - 15/06/2010 09:03:39 PM 835 Views
No. There's a difference. - 15/06/2010 09:07:09 PM 1004 Views
Oh come on... - 15/06/2010 08:48:56 PM 1039 Views
I know you are not that ignorant... - 15/06/2010 09:07:02 PM 808 Views
But that isn't true... - 15/06/2010 09:10:37 PM 851 Views
Let me spell it out for you... - 15/06/2010 09:18:04 PM 870 Views
Re: Let me spell it out for you... - 15/06/2010 09:21:02 PM 848 Views
Don't put words in my, or Lews Therin's, mouth... - 15/06/2010 09:33:50 PM 1008 Views
??? - 15/06/2010 10:43:28 PM 1005 Views
+1. It ridiculous comparison. Rand even didn't know how to shield a woman. - 15/06/2010 09:22:22 PM 895 Views
Now that's a ridiculous comparison - 15/06/2010 09:24:45 PM 978 Views
Exactly! - 15/06/2010 09:28:20 PM 997 Views
Touchy point, heh? - 15/06/2010 09:28:47 PM 934 Views
Then how come Lanfear never died? We know she made attempts to capture him. - 15/06/2010 09:31:20 PM 910 Views
Whom? LTT? Can you elaborate? - 15/06/2010 09:33:25 PM 965 Views
If you wish... - 15/06/2010 09:34:38 PM 717 Views
Re: If you wish... - 15/06/2010 09:36:30 PM 727 Views
Whyever not? - 15/06/2010 09:39:22 PM 805 Views
Re: Whyever not? - 15/06/2010 09:41:22 PM 685 Views
Even in that situation - 15/06/2010 09:43:04 PM 943 Views
Re: Even in that situation - 15/06/2010 09:47:36 PM 959 Views
Okay... - 15/06/2010 09:59:36 PM 890 Views
Re: Okay... - 15/06/2010 10:39:01 PM 889 Views
So, if it doesn't agree with your view, its fuzzy, even when that is what the books say? *NM* - 15/06/2010 10:42:48 PM 528 Views
What? - 15/06/2010 10:45:16 PM 812 Views
If we use your interpretation of the statements. *NM* - 15/06/2010 10:49:21 PM 436 Views
Re: If we use your interpretation of the statements. - 15/06/2010 10:54:48 PM 748 Views
Okay, here's what I think you're saying... - 15/06/2010 11:00:19 PM 913 Views
Re: Okay, here's what I think you're saying... - 15/06/2010 11:10:57 PM 860 Views
Sorry for the mixup... BUT... - 16/06/2010 12:28:31 AM 938 Views
I cannot believe you're so obtuse... or then again, I can. - 15/06/2010 09:26:04 PM 969 Views
About how strong you have to be to shield someone... - 15/06/2010 09:14:31 PM 681 Views
Re: No three women could block him from the Source... - 16/06/2010 04:00:00 PM 810 Views
+1 - 16/06/2010 05:54:51 PM 882 Views
- 16/06/2010 08:48:39 PM 1061 Views
Re: - 16/06/2010 08:56:31 PM 743 Views
indeed you have - 16/06/2010 09:34:22 PM 976 Views
Bad analogy... - 17/06/2010 04:23:31 AM 773 Views
Uh... - 17/06/2010 09:08:01 AM 855 Views
I disagree. - 16/06/2010 04:03:52 PM 957 Views
That's wrong. Rand said 2 AS + Moghedien could threaten him - 16/06/2010 05:17:33 PM 937 Views
Huh. I forgot about that. - 17/06/2010 04:29:38 PM 1003 Views
go back a few posts... - 17/06/2010 03:41:42 AM 863 Views
yet Nynaeve and Talaan can shield one another - 17/06/2010 05:57:09 AM 871 Views
I'd like to think Egwene, Elayne and Aviendha could - 17/06/2010 04:19:22 PM 802 Views
Agreed - 17/06/2010 05:59:39 PM 698 Views
I don't think there's any theme - 17/06/2010 08:25:52 PM 990 Views
I don't think they are meant to controll him in someway - 17/06/2010 10:21:09 PM 869 Views
They have a separate trinity. - 18/06/2010 06:51:27 PM 881 Views
They might be able to, but then they are not 3 women of <b>average AS</b> strength - 17/06/2010 07:10:14 PM 835 Views
They would be far more than 3 average AS - 17/06/2010 08:07:30 PM 850 Views
No, that's not right either. - 18/06/2010 12:37:37 AM 909 Views
I disagree - 18/06/2010 06:07:10 AM 987 Views
Another related quote - 18/06/2010 07:49:33 PM 852 Views
well, in the same book about 5 minutes after Lanfear almost kicks Rands ass - 18/06/2010 08:11:49 PM 902 Views

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