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??? darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 15/06/2010 10:43:28 PM

Yes, because he did not know how to resist them. If you don't resist, then of course she can cut your connection. Just holding onto the Source means you leave yourself defenseless.

That isn't true at all. Verin and co. threw a shield at Graendal. Graendal did nothing, yet the shield bounced off. Verin and Alanna threw a shield at Rand in LoC. He did nothing, and the shield bounced off.

Of course six Aes Sedai can hold him. But it takes a LOT more to cut you off if you are already holding the Source. Come on, that's One Power 101. Even you know that.

Yes, but who said the six sisters against the False Dragons were trying to shield him? It was a battle, by all accounts, and not a shielding match.

Again, to shield someone who is already holding the Source, you must be MUCH stronger than they are. Something like 50% stronger, if the books are any indication. Was Rand sure that he is 50% stronger than 7 Aes Sedai, whose individual strengths he doesn't know, and who might or might not have angreal with them?

Was Talaan even .1% stronger than Nynaeve?

How was he to know.

Because he has an idea of how strong AS are from seeing how strong the strongest among them is?
If one of them was Moghedien, she would be dangerous enough. Maybe not to shield him, but very dangerous to confront.

She would be able to shield him. Unless he cut her shield.


The closer you are in strength, the more uncertain it becomes that you will be able to shield someone. If you are exactly equal, the chances of success are very slim. In fact, in Nynaeve's case, it was proven that although she was equal to Talaan, she was unable to shield her, and was in fact shielded herself because Talaan was more skilled.

So it became a battle of skill, which Nynaeve lost.

As for Verin and Graendal's cases. See above. Verin and Alanna's shield was hopelessly weaker than Rand's connection to the source. So much weaker that he did not even have to bother to resist it.

Same with Graendal and Verin's case. Graendal was channeling through an angreal and the thickness of her connection was either exceeded Verin's shield strength by too great a margin, or Verin's shield was of insufficient precision to slice through it.

We know Lanfear is very dexterous, and can therefore no doubt create shield with a much sharper "edge", meaning in effect that she can punch above her weight in strength.

But as I said before, if it was Lews Therin in front of her, instead of the untrained, ignorant Rand, she would have had no chance.

Ishamael could not even cut Lews Therin off from the source. How on earth could Lanfear hope to do it then?


There's no proof that Rand made a massive jump in strength and skill after this. A chapter later he fought Rahvin, and earlier in the book he got into a direct battle with Sammael. How unskilled could he be compared to Lews Therin? Are you telling me that you could add a second Lanfear and Lews Therin would be able to hold them off?


Rand only "remembered" how to slice a weave of saidar in the midst of fending of Lanfear's attack at the Docks. Thanks to Asmodaen's teachings, he had far more knowledge and practice in how to counter weaves of saidin, than weaves of saidar.

So yes, he DOES make significant leaps in knowledge after FoH. He is not even at full knowledge yet at any time in the series, until he merges with Lews Therin at the end of Book 12.

Regarding strength: Whatever the difference in strength between Rahvin and Lews Therin was, that is how much Rand still grows after FoH. And since Rahvin was never mentioned as being close to Lews Therin in strength, it may well be a significant increase.

Lastly, nice try in attempting to catch me with a sneaky one. Lews Therin never said it would take 3 women as strong as Lanfear to shield him from the source. He said it would take 3 women as strong as Semirhage or Mesaaana.

I believe that two Lanfears WOULD be able to shield him, and that merely strengthens my belief that there is a larger gap between Lanfear and the other female Forsaken than 5-10% that some of you propose.


When did Lanfear become that much stronger than the others? If she was really like 25% stronger than the other women, Graendal would never have challenged her openly in tFoH. Rhavin would have never wondered if that battle would last long enough for Balefire to be used, and the other FS women would not be anywhere close to strong enough to have survived. Moghedien is probably about 15% weaker than Lanfear, and she is the outlier!

Why do people feel it so necessary to make certain characters so strong? The FS measure each other on their skills and deeds, not their OP strength.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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No three women could block him from the Source... - 15/06/2010 06:52:17 PM 1953 Views
I think that is total BS, since the books have proved otherwise more than once... - 15/06/2010 07:22:16 PM 1036 Views
I think he means that it would take three such women to smother him - 15/06/2010 07:45:03 PM 1099 Views
Ahhh... I can kind of agree with that... - 15/06/2010 08:05:46 PM 1174 Views
Yes, that is what he meant. Another interesting twist... - 16/06/2010 01:34:18 AM 1140 Views
Agreed. Good analysis. - 16/06/2010 07:48:36 AM 1118 Views
Re: I think that is total BS, since the books have proved otherwise more than once... - 15/06/2010 08:17:47 PM 1054 Views
Huh? - 15/06/2010 08:19:21 PM 1160 Views
Re: Huh? - 15/06/2010 08:31:17 PM 982 Views
- 15/06/2010 08:43:12 PM 1059 Views
Re: - 15/06/2010 08:47:05 PM 880 Views
No, this is before. - 15/06/2010 08:49:13 PM 960 Views
Well that's a different quote from the one you used before, and this one shows Lanfear not succeedin - 15/06/2010 08:52:00 PM 964 Views
I never used a quote before. And there's no quote where Lanfear's shield is not succeeding. - 15/06/2010 08:52:28 PM 835 Views
Simple answer to settle it: - 15/06/2010 09:00:22 PM 851 Views
So Talaan is God? - 15/06/2010 09:04:44 PM 1015 Views
It Rand had half Lews Therin's skill at the time, she would stand no chance..SKILL was her advantage - 15/06/2010 09:08:41 PM 966 Views
Skill has nothing to do with how strong a person is. - 15/06/2010 09:11:13 PM 940 Views
So? - 15/06/2010 09:15:01 PM 933 Views
Nope, YOU said he was talking about smothering him, whatever that's supposed to mean... - 15/06/2010 09:26:53 PM 890 Views
Oh My God! That's such utter tripe... EDIT... - 15/06/2010 09:30:29 PM 979 Views
That's exactly how I understood you. - 15/06/2010 09:30:42 PM 833 Views
Nope. 6 Aes Sedai couldn't take Raolain Darksbane or Yurian Stonebow...Semirhage = 3 Aes Sedai - 15/06/2010 08:26:21 PM 899 Views
Lanfear can do it alone - 15/06/2010 08:45:09 PM 904 Views
She ATTEMPTS to cut him off, when he is not at full strength or full training yet... - 15/06/2010 08:55:39 PM 875 Views
Bah! - 15/06/2010 08:58:26 PM 895 Views
I repeat: You cannot shield someone unless you are significantly stronger than they are... - 15/06/2010 09:02:55 PM 846 Views
Explain Talaan shielding Nynaeve then. Or the two BA shielding her. - 15/06/2010 09:05:21 PM 1833 Views
It becomes a battle of skill then... - 15/06/2010 09:09:42 PM 1015 Views
BUT... - 15/06/2010 09:12:47 PM 937 Views
Re: "he would have had no need to cut her weaves" - 15/06/2010 09:03:39 PM 858 Views
No. There's a difference. - 15/06/2010 09:07:09 PM 1037 Views
Oh come on... - 15/06/2010 08:48:56 PM 1066 Views
I know you are not that ignorant... - 15/06/2010 09:07:02 PM 841 Views
But that isn't true... - 15/06/2010 09:10:37 PM 885 Views
Let me spell it out for you... - 15/06/2010 09:18:04 PM 890 Views
Re: Let me spell it out for you... - 15/06/2010 09:21:02 PM 873 Views
Don't put words in my, or Lews Therin's, mouth... - 15/06/2010 09:33:50 PM 1031 Views
??? - 15/06/2010 10:43:28 PM 1032 Views
+1. It ridiculous comparison. Rand even didn't know how to shield a woman. - 15/06/2010 09:22:22 PM 925 Views
Now that's a ridiculous comparison - 15/06/2010 09:24:45 PM 1013 Views
Exactly! - 15/06/2010 09:28:20 PM 1027 Views
Touchy point, heh? - 15/06/2010 09:28:47 PM 965 Views
Then how come Lanfear never died? We know she made attempts to capture him. - 15/06/2010 09:31:20 PM 933 Views
Whom? LTT? Can you elaborate? - 15/06/2010 09:33:25 PM 991 Views
If you wish... - 15/06/2010 09:34:38 PM 737 Views
Re: If you wish... - 15/06/2010 09:36:30 PM 752 Views
Whyever not? - 15/06/2010 09:39:22 PM 827 Views
Re: Whyever not? - 15/06/2010 09:41:22 PM 711 Views
Even in that situation - 15/06/2010 09:43:04 PM 976 Views
Re: Even in that situation - 15/06/2010 09:47:36 PM 984 Views
Okay... - 15/06/2010 09:59:36 PM 920 Views
Re: Okay... - 15/06/2010 10:39:01 PM 915 Views
So, if it doesn't agree with your view, its fuzzy, even when that is what the books say? *NM* - 15/06/2010 10:42:48 PM 541 Views
What? - 15/06/2010 10:45:16 PM 842 Views
If we use your interpretation of the statements. *NM* - 15/06/2010 10:49:21 PM 446 Views
Re: If we use your interpretation of the statements. - 15/06/2010 10:54:48 PM 775 Views
Okay, here's what I think you're saying... - 15/06/2010 11:00:19 PM 940 Views
Re: Okay, here's what I think you're saying... - 15/06/2010 11:10:57 PM 900 Views
Sorry for the mixup... BUT... - 16/06/2010 12:28:31 AM 962 Views
I cannot believe you're so obtuse... or then again, I can. - 15/06/2010 09:26:04 PM 990 Views
About how strong you have to be to shield someone... - 15/06/2010 09:14:31 PM 715 Views
Re: No three women could block him from the Source... - 16/06/2010 04:00:00 PM 830 Views
+1 - 16/06/2010 05:54:51 PM 910 Views
- 16/06/2010 08:48:39 PM 1090 Views
Re: - 16/06/2010 08:56:31 PM 766 Views
indeed you have - 16/06/2010 09:34:22 PM 1004 Views
Bad analogy... - 17/06/2010 04:23:31 AM 810 Views
Uh... - 17/06/2010 09:08:01 AM 877 Views
I disagree. - 16/06/2010 04:03:52 PM 988 Views
That's wrong. Rand said 2 AS + Moghedien could threaten him - 16/06/2010 05:17:33 PM 962 Views
Huh. I forgot about that. - 17/06/2010 04:29:38 PM 1040 Views
go back a few posts... - 17/06/2010 03:41:42 AM 894 Views
yet Nynaeve and Talaan can shield one another - 17/06/2010 05:57:09 AM 896 Views
I'd like to think Egwene, Elayne and Aviendha could - 17/06/2010 04:19:22 PM 824 Views
Agreed - 17/06/2010 05:59:39 PM 729 Views
I don't think there's any theme - 17/06/2010 08:25:52 PM 1021 Views
I don't think they are meant to controll him in someway - 17/06/2010 10:21:09 PM 888 Views
They have a separate trinity. - 18/06/2010 06:51:27 PM 911 Views
They might be able to, but then they are not 3 women of <b>average AS</b> strength - 17/06/2010 07:10:14 PM 868 Views
They would be far more than 3 average AS - 17/06/2010 08:07:30 PM 882 Views
No, that's not right either. - 18/06/2010 12:37:37 AM 932 Views
I disagree - 18/06/2010 06:07:10 AM 1020 Views
Another related quote - 18/06/2010 07:49:33 PM 877 Views
well, in the same book about 5 minutes after Lanfear almost kicks Rands ass - 18/06/2010 08:11:49 PM 922 Views

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