Your Aes Sedai are close to the average woman in strength, right...
Shannow Send a noteboard - 10/06/2010 11:42:01 PM
Meaning that you place them much higher than I do.
So, if you are correct, then Rand probably broke through a shield that is what, 40+40+40=120 in strength?
Or even if you go lower, and it is 30+30+30=90, that still means that Rand was roughly equal in strength to the combined strength of the 3 sisters who were shielding him. Right?
So how is this possible, if a much weaker channeler can keep a stronger channeler shielded, if the victim is already cut off from the Source?
Your argument is that Rand was able to do this because it is more difficult to shield someone of the opposite sex.
Now that's fine, as long as you hold the same argument if the roles are reversed, and it is now a man trying to hold a woman shielded. Again, it should be more difficult for the man to keep them shielded since they are of the opposite sex.
So, if Rand was at 80 when he shielded Egwene and Elayne, and Egwene was at 60 with Elayne at 30, then the two women combined were actually STRONGER than his total strength when he shielded them.
And he was holding both shields at the same time to boot.
And this despite the fact that they are of the opposite sex, and therefore more difficult for him to shield.
So, to summarize, Rand - of strength 90 in LoC, is able to break a shield that exceeds his own strength, but Egwene and Elayne are not able to break shields that clearly have to be weaker than their own combined strength in tSR. This despite Rand holding multiple weaves simultaneously -which would further sap his strength.
For example, let's say Rand at strength 80 is able to weave two shields of 40 and 30 strength respectively. One for Egwene and one for Elayne.
Now, that would mean that Egwene cannot break through Rand's shield of 40, despite being of strength 60 herself at the time, but Rand was able to break through a shield of 90-120 in LoC, despite it matching or exceeding his own strength.
Clearly, Rand's strength advantage is greater than you think it is.
So, if you are correct, then Rand probably broke through a shield that is what, 40+40+40=120 in strength?
Or even if you go lower, and it is 30+30+30=90, that still means that Rand was roughly equal in strength to the combined strength of the 3 sisters who were shielding him. Right?
So how is this possible, if a much weaker channeler can keep a stronger channeler shielded, if the victim is already cut off from the Source?
Your argument is that Rand was able to do this because it is more difficult to shield someone of the opposite sex.
Now that's fine, as long as you hold the same argument if the roles are reversed, and it is now a man trying to hold a woman shielded. Again, it should be more difficult for the man to keep them shielded since they are of the opposite sex.
So, if Rand was at 80 when he shielded Egwene and Elayne, and Egwene was at 60 with Elayne at 30, then the two women combined were actually STRONGER than his total strength when he shielded them.
And he was holding both shields at the same time to boot.
And this despite the fact that they are of the opposite sex, and therefore more difficult for him to shield.
So, to summarize, Rand - of strength 90 in LoC, is able to break a shield that exceeds his own strength, but Egwene and Elayne are not able to break shields that clearly have to be weaker than their own combined strength in tSR. This despite Rand holding multiple weaves simultaneously -which would further sap his strength.
For example, let's say Rand at strength 80 is able to weave two shields of 40 and 30 strength respectively. One for Egwene and one for Elayne.
Now, that would mean that Egwene cannot break through Rand's shield of 40, despite being of strength 60 herself at the time, but Rand was able to break through a shield of 90-120 in LoC, despite it matching or exceeding his own strength.
Clearly, Rand's strength advantage is greater than you think it is.
Several good MAFOs from Dragonmount
10/06/2010 07:07:55 PM
- 2200 Views
Maria's answer to question 20 is ground-breaking!
10/06/2010 07:36:40 PM
- 1125 Views
No, it merely means that the Bell Curve does not refer to absolute strength...
10/06/2010 07:42:31 PM
- 1001 Views
See the question again man!
10/06/2010 07:48:57 PM
- 961 Views
That contradicts your assertion that Moiraine is stronger than the average woman...
10/06/2010 07:50:11 PM
- 1039 Views
I need to re-evaluate nothing!
10/06/2010 07:46:20 PM
- 974 Views
Think logically for a moment...
10/06/2010 07:49:10 PM
- 819 Views
Who said Egwene is twice as strong as Moiraine?
10/06/2010 07:52:27 PM
- 1064 Views
Aviendha did in FoH...
10/06/2010 07:54:32 PM
- 820 Views
Nope!
10/06/2010 07:55:55 PM
- 982 Views
Your quotes are faulty
10/06/2010 07:57:18 PM
- 994 Views
In what sense though?
10/06/2010 07:59:00 PM
- 985 Views
Forkroot
10/06/2010 08:04:50 PM
- 920 Views
Again... later that night?
10/06/2010 08:05:39 PM
- 767 Views
What do you mean?
10/06/2010 08:07:24 PM
- 971 Views
See below...
10/06/2010 08:11:24 PM
- 885 Views
Re: See below...
10/06/2010 08:12:34 PM
- 931 Views
I just did.
10/06/2010 08:16:09 PM
- 748 Views
Well then we disagree
10/06/2010 08:18:10 PM
- 948 Views
BUT WHAT ABOUT LATER IN THE NIGHT!
10/06/2010 08:20:21 PM
- 799 Views
Ah, you mean later later ...
10/06/2010 08:29:59 PM
- 893 Views
Forkroot wears off, you know?
10/06/2010 08:45:33 PM
- 993 Views
Yes I know
10/06/2010 09:05:29 PM
- 984 Views
I've explained it before in this thread...
10/06/2010 09:17:10 PM
- 971 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread...
10/06/2010 09:37:39 PM
- 962 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread...
10/06/2010 09:51:40 PM
- 898 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread...
10/06/2010 10:05:37 PM
- 926 Views
Are you sure you're feeling fine?
10/06/2010 10:18:44 PM
- 993 Views
RJ writes that Amys cannot hold Egwene. BS writes that Barasene can. Who are you gonna believe?
10/06/2010 08:31:35 PM
- 811 Views
It wasn't BS... both were RJ!
10/06/2010 08:41:54 PM
- 889 Views
In that case, there is no problem...
10/06/2010 08:45:05 PM
- 859 Views
But that isn't what the text says...
10/06/2010 08:57:42 PM
- 769 Views
How can Egwene be strong enough to overcome Katerine and Silviana together then?
10/06/2010 09:07:36 PM
- 971 Views
Yeah, both were RJ
10/06/2010 08:49:13 PM
- 878 Views
Yeah yeah... RJ lied, Maria lied. Only you make sense. I'm finished with this debate.
10/06/2010 08:59:06 PM
- 976 Views
10/06/2010 09:07:52 PM
- 947 Views
Really?
10/06/2010 09:29:22 PM
- 826 Views
Re: Really?
10/06/2010 09:39:21 PM
- 932 Views
Here's what is clear:
10/06/2010 09:02:41 PM
- 864 Views
IMO it's easy to disprove
10/06/2010 09:22:23 PM
- 853 Views
Dude...
10/06/2010 09:27:34 PM
- 772 Views
At least we agree on one thing
10/06/2010 09:29:14 PM
- 863 Views
yet 4 women can still hold Rand in LoC ... he can't break the Shield until it's down to 3
13/06/2010 12:47:43 PM
- 703 Views
Have to agree with Sidious on this point
11/06/2010 02:49:58 AM
- 805 Views
The rate forkroot wears off?
16/06/2010 12:36:38 PM
- 907 Views
You missed that she isn't being given Forkroot at night at all!
16/06/2010 04:47:59 PM
- 824 Views
Maria's other answer adresses this...
10/06/2010 08:14:54 PM
- 701 Views
Then one Aes Sedai cannot shield her. But one did.
10/06/2010 08:16:41 PM
- 835 Views
You can be much weaker than someone, and hold them shielded, if they are already cut off...
10/06/2010 08:19:15 PM
- 800 Views
But, if you are much stronger, you can break that shield...
10/06/2010 08:22:25 PM
- 813 Views
Easy...
10/06/2010 08:24:59 PM
- 781 Views
What has that got to do with it?
10/06/2010 08:32:56 PM
- 964 Views
Amys is not LESS than half of Egwene's strength. You cannot hold someone if you are LESS than half..
10/06/2010 08:47:41 PM
- 869 Views
Amys is as strong as Moiraine, at the most one level lower. Barasine is weaker than Katarine, who...
10/06/2010 09:00:26 PM
- 1012 Views
I can agree with that.
10/06/2010 09:09:07 PM
- 770 Views
...
10/06/2010 09:12:21 PM
- 752 Views
Agreed, but...
10/06/2010 09:13:59 PM
- 924 Views
Re: Agreed, but...
10/06/2010 09:16:30 PM
- 722 Views
Good point...
10/06/2010 09:18:53 PM
- 941 Views
Or, you know, you can have the grace to question your antiquated strength list...
10/06/2010 09:22:51 PM
- 808 Views
I'd be perfectly happy to adjust my list if it made sense
10/06/2010 09:32:35 PM
- 742 Views
Uhhh?
10/06/2010 09:41:59 PM
- 756 Views
Re: Uhhh?
10/06/2010 09:48:58 PM
- 756 Views
DUDE!
10/06/2010 09:58:59 PM
- 784 Views
Rand seems to shield Egwene and Elayne TOGETHER, pretty easily...
10/06/2010 09:54:03 PM
- 1346 Views
That's fairly simple, actually...
10/06/2010 10:08:53 PM
- 980 Views
Nope. Rand was also cut off from the Source when he broke a shield held by 3 Aes Sedai...
10/06/2010 11:18:41 PM
- 958 Views
Because that channeler is much stronger? I'm not getting your confusion here. *NM*
10/06/2010 11:27:31 PM
- 470 Views
Your Aes Sedai are close to the average woman in strength, right...
10/06/2010 11:42:01 PM
- 1008 Views
No, here's the quote: I hate having to pull out my books with their yellowed pages...
10/06/2010 08:01:54 PM
- 800 Views
Why would she need surprise against two? That was against five of them...
10/06/2010 08:04:57 PM
- 817 Views
Very poor evidence
10/06/2010 08:11:26 PM
- 923 Views
no she said Egwene is stronger than Amys and Melaine combined
11/06/2010 12:46:29 AM
- 874 Views
The actual quote says Amys and Melaine combined...
11/06/2010 12:25:07 PM
- 931 Views
Here's the problem with that...
11/06/2010 12:42:41 PM
- 783 Views
I think you are misreading her.
10/06/2010 07:47:06 PM
- 724 Views
Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution. *NM*
10/06/2010 09:23:36 PM
- 507 Views
Re: Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution.
10/06/2010 10:11:23 PM
- 964 Views
Yes. You can't extrapolate a generalized macro level scale to micro level individuals.
11/06/2010 12:16:24 AM
- 810 Views
I don't agree
10/06/2010 07:49:41 PM
- 795 Views
BAH! Its infuriating how you have so many blinders... Eerily Aes Sedai of you.
10/06/2010 07:54:23 PM
- 900 Views
Hmm...
10/06/2010 07:55:59 PM
- 713 Views
Because of the question to which she responded...
10/06/2010 07:57:55 PM
- 753 Views
Re: Because of the question to which she responded...
10/06/2010 08:06:16 PM
- 883 Views
Without contradicting the latter...
10/06/2010 08:15:11 PM
- 784 Views
Ah well
10/06/2010 08:20:32 PM
- 750 Views
Great! Two of my OP strength ideas have been solidified!
10/06/2010 07:39:53 PM
- 1004 Views
Nope...
10/06/2010 07:46:31 PM
- 855 Views
Who said Cadsuane was 50?
10/06/2010 07:51:14 PM
- 887 Views
So how can Egwene be twice as strong as Moiraine, if Moiraine is at 55?
10/06/2010 07:53:11 PM
- 758 Views
She cannot be because she isn't. Silviana can shield Egwene alone, for God's sake. So can Amys!
10/06/2010 07:56:26 PM
- 699 Views
Amys can't hold her properly
10/06/2010 07:59:47 PM
- 727 Views
What about later that night?
10/06/2010 08:02:16 PM
- 720 Views
No she didn't
16/06/2010 03:02:21 PM
- 853 Views
No she didn't what?
16/06/2010 04:46:05 PM
- 908 Views
Re: No she didn't what?
17/06/2010 06:16:16 AM
- 741 Views
Why do you think it's a linear scale?
16/06/2010 05:25:56 AM
- 873 Views
That's simple...
16/06/2010 06:36:44 AM
- 825 Views
Re: That's simple...
16/06/2010 12:27:07 PM
- 773 Views
Your concept is not mathematically right. So yeah, forget discussing it.
16/06/2010 04:41:13 PM
- 964 Views
Dang, Cyndane isn't using Cabriana's body.
10/06/2010 08:25:20 PM
- 806 Views
The blue flash RAFO irritates me- I can't see how that will be relevant. The Min thing was new
10/06/2010 08:50:52 PM
- 943 Views
RJ already RAFOed the incident with Thom's knives/daggers before
10/06/2010 08:57:52 PM
- 1021 Views
It isn't, unless she's implying the Creator helped him out or some other such thing
11/06/2010 12:56:49 AM
- 775 Views
Just to make things clear on the strength thing...
10/06/2010 09:08:02 PM
- 1053 Views
It is possible Maria was answering the first question and ignoring the second...
10/06/2010 09:29:59 PM
- 781 Views
That still proves my point...
10/06/2010 09:33:10 PM
- 956 Views
Re: That still proves my point...
10/06/2010 09:45:39 PM
- 808 Views
Then why...
10/06/2010 10:00:00 PM
- 901 Views
Re: Then why...
10/06/2010 10:07:56 PM
- 770 Views
God, what stupidity!
10/06/2010 10:10:32 PM
- 767 Views
Re: God, what stupidity!
10/06/2010 10:16:38 PM
- 875 Views
It doesn't have to be 1-100.
10/06/2010 10:32:17 PM
- 829 Views
Re: It doesn't have to be 1-100.
10/06/2010 10:41:02 PM
- 1093 Views
That's a mathematical impossibility...
10/06/2010 11:26:23 PM
- 918 Views
Just popping in. I think you're arguing over non-existent delineations.
11/06/2010 12:44:40 AM
- 858 Views
You know, these things always end up pissing me off.
11/06/2010 12:25:05 AM
- 845 Views
Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off.
11/06/2010 03:22:53 AM
- 963 Views
Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off.
11/06/2010 12:29:37 PM
- 889 Views
I agree
11/06/2010 01:14:36 PM
- 1006 Views
Re: I agree
12/06/2010 03:02:32 PM
- 787 Views
BS didn't answer with "Read and find out"
12/06/2010 03:28:05 PM
- 816 Views
We were speaking about Maria giving a RAFO on the topic, not Sanderson. *NM*
13/06/2010 12:05:17 AM
- 482 Views
Actually she said "No"... *NM*
13/06/2010 01:06:18 AM
- 574 Views
I'll rephrase then. It was about Maria saying that she considered giving a RAFO on the question.
13/06/2010 01:44:19 AM
- 818 Views
Eh, practically useless.
14/06/2010 11:50:06 PM
- 791 Views
I agree. I think she is saving the good stuff for the encyclopedia. *NM*
15/06/2010 04:17:07 PM
- 453 Views
Yeah. I do think she's taking advantage of these poor saps, though.
17/06/2010 03:52:33 PM
- 1358 Views