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I'm thinking Berowin here... Shannow Send a noteboard - 10/06/2010 09:16:41 PM
is weaker than Moiraine.

Meaning whether we use your scale or mine, there needs to be a non-strength explanation for why Barasine can hold Egwene and Amys cannot.


Barasine must then be better at making shields than Amys is.


What about Egwene? That was in TSR. It's seven books later and Egwene has grown significantly in strength and skill.


From a strength perspective there is no way that Barasine can shield Egwene.

The only logical options are:

1. Egwene was under the lingering effects of forkroot.
2. Barasine has a weaker version of Berowin's talent.

But in pure strength terms, if Amys coudldn't hold Egwene, then Barasine certainly cannot either.
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Several good MAFOs from Dragonmount Etzel - 10/06/2010 07:07:55 PM 2284 Views
Some good RAFOs here Skeeve the Great - 10/06/2010 07:31:56 PM 1034 Views
Yeah... Etzel - 10/06/2010 07:36:55 PM 922 Views
Maria's answer to question 20 is ground-breaking! Logain - 10/06/2010 07:36:40 PM 1210 Views
No, it merely means that the Bell Curve does not refer to absolute strength... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:42:31 PM 1071 Views
See the question again man! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:48:57 PM 1039 Views
That contradicts your assertion that Moiraine is stronger than the average woman... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:50:11 PM 1132 Views
How? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:54:41 PM 1057 Views
I need to re-evaluate nothing! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:46:20 PM 1057 Views
Think logically for a moment... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:49:10 PM 893 Views
Who said Egwene is twice as strong as Moiraine? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:52:27 PM 1140 Views
Aviendha did in FoH... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:54:32 PM 885 Views
Nope! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:55:55 PM 1056 Views
Your quotes are faulty Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:57:18 PM 1067 Views
In what sense though? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:59:00 PM 1057 Views
Forkroot Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:04:50 PM 995 Views
Again... later that night? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:05:39 PM 866 Views
What do you mean? Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:07:24 PM 1046 Views
See below... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:11:24 PM 922 Views
Re: See below... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:12:34 PM 992 Views
I just did. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:16:09 PM 827 Views
Well then we disagree Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:18:10 PM 1027 Views
BUT WHAT ABOUT LATER IN THE NIGHT! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:20:21 PM 867 Views
Ah, you mean later later ... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:29:59 PM 967 Views
Forkroot wears off, you know? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:45:33 PM 1061 Views
Yes I know Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:05:29 PM 1069 Views
I've explained it before in this thread... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:17:10 PM 1047 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:37:39 PM 1038 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:51:40 PM 971 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread... Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:05:37 PM 999 Views
Are you sure you're feeling fine? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:18:44 PM 1060 Views
Re: Are you sure you're feeling fine? Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:29:04 PM 1162 Views
Re: Are you sure you're feeling fine? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:47:00 PM 961 Views
RJ writes that Amys cannot hold Egwene. BS writes that Barasene can. Who are you gonna believe? Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:31:35 PM 881 Views
It wasn't BS... both were RJ! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:41:54 PM 965 Views
In that case, there is no problem... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:45:05 PM 978 Views
But that isn't what the text says... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:57:42 PM 839 Views
How can Egwene be strong enough to overcome Katerine and Silviana together then? Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:07:36 PM 1076 Views
She also says Egwene is Aes Sedai in the same sentence... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:25:16 PM 1099 Views
Yeah, both were RJ Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:49:13 PM 948 Views
Yeah yeah... RJ lied, Maria lied. Only you make sense. I'm finished with this debate. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:59:06 PM 1041 Views
Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:07:52 PM 1024 Views
Really? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:29:22 PM 895 Views
Re: Really? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:39:21 PM 1001 Views
Re: Really? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:43:41 PM 883 Views
Re: Really? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:50:23 PM 1047 Views
I haven't refuted? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:53:17 PM 1073 Views
Here's what is clear: Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:02:41 PM 944 Views
IMO it's easy to disprove Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:22:23 PM 926 Views
Dude... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:27:34 PM 833 Views
At least we agree on one thing Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:29:14 PM 944 Views
No... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:32:06 PM 871 Views
Re: No... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:43:59 PM 1024 Views
fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:57:25 PM 871 Views
Re: Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:12:29 PM 969 Views
Re: fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:34:28 PM 982 Views
Thought on this darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 01:09:29 PM 894 Views
yet 4 women can still hold Rand in LoC ... he can't break the Shield until it's down to 3 darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 12:47:43 PM 780 Views
Have to agree with Sidious on this point darius_sedai - 11/06/2010 02:49:58 AM 879 Views
That was kind of my point... fionwe1987 - 11/06/2010 12:19:23 PM 608 Views
of course Katerine would have complained darius_sedai - 12/06/2010 12:53:31 PM 1000 Views
The rate forkroot wears off? Rurouni_Kenshin - 16/06/2010 12:36:38 PM 958 Views
You missed that she isn't being given Forkroot at night at all! fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 04:47:59 PM 895 Views
Typos, screwed up what I meant Rurouni_Kenshin - 17/06/2010 02:31:50 AM 905 Views
You are... fionwe1987 - 17/06/2010 04:32:47 AM 1120 Views
Maria's other answer adresses this... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:14:54 PM 776 Views
Then one Aes Sedai cannot shield her. But one did. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:16:41 PM 901 Views
You can be much weaker than someone, and hold them shielded, if they are already cut off... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:19:15 PM 876 Views
But, if you are much stronger, you can break that shield... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:22:25 PM 893 Views
Easy... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:24:59 PM 858 Views
What has that got to do with it? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:32:56 PM 1045 Views
Amys is not LESS than half of Egwene's strength. You cannot hold someone if you are LESS than half.. Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:47:41 PM 957 Views
Amys is as strong as Moiraine, at the most one level lower. Barasine is weaker than Katarine, who... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:00:26 PM 1087 Views
I can agree with that. Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:09:07 PM 845 Views
How can you agree with it? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:13:55 PM 1044 Views
I'm thinking Berowin here... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:16:41 PM 1050 Views
Exactly. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:18:19 PM 905 Views
... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:12:21 PM 824 Views
Agreed, but... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:13:59 PM 1000 Views
Re: Agreed, but... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:16:30 PM 797 Views
Good point... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:18:53 PM 1010 Views
Or, you know, you're wrong? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:27:55 PM 877 Views
Re: Good point... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:28:02 PM 1084 Views
We've had this discussion before darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 01:59:34 PM 981 Views
Or, you know, you can have the grace to question your antiquated strength list... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:22:51 PM 874 Views
The Bell Curve fits perfectly if one simple fact is true... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:31:31 PM 831 Views
Or, you know, you can stop misinterpreting Aviendha... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:40:05 PM 955 Views
I'd be perfectly happy to adjust my list if it made sense Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:32:35 PM 822 Views
Uhhh? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:41:59 PM 819 Views
Re: Uhhh? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:48:58 PM 821 Views
DUDE! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:58:59 PM 851 Views
Re: DUDE! Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:09:11 PM 805 Views
I explained... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:27:44 PM 835 Views
Re: I explained... Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:45:58 PM 954 Views
Rand seems to shield Egwene and Elayne TOGETHER, pretty easily... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:54:03 PM 1425 Views
That's fairly simple, actually... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:08:53 PM 1073 Views
Nope. Rand was also cut off from the Source when he broke a shield held by 3 Aes Sedai... Shannow - 10/06/2010 11:18:41 PM 1025 Views
Because that channeler is much stronger? I'm not getting your confusion here. *NM* fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 11:27:31 PM 494 Views
Your Aes Sedai are close to the average woman in strength, right... Shannow - 10/06/2010 11:42:01 PM 1086 Views
You are making a couple of mistakes darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 02:28:41 PM 944 Views
You're missing an important point... fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 11:10:55 PM 934 Views
Yes, what do you mean? You are actually proving our point... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:10:50 PM 805 Views
No, here's the quote: I hate having to pull out my books with their yellowed pages... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:01:54 PM 869 Views
Why would she need surprise against two? That was against five of them... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:04:57 PM 884 Views
That makes no sense whatsoever... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:06:53 PM 850 Views
Simply this... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:13:42 PM 869 Views
Very poor evidence Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:11:26 PM 1002 Views
No it isn't... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:18:09 PM 948 Views
Re: No it isn't... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:32:17 PM 1023 Views
no she said Egwene is stronger than Amys and Melaine combined darius_sedai - 11/06/2010 12:46:29 AM 947 Views
The actual quote says Amys and Melaine combined... Shannow - 11/06/2010 12:25:07 PM 995 Views
Here's the problem with that... fionwe1987 - 11/06/2010 12:42:41 PM 854 Views
Linked circles are more effective than individual channelers... Shannow - 11/06/2010 01:57:43 PM 953 Views
That much stronger? fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 11:06:18 PM 1011 Views
On this we agree. darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 02:34:45 PM 832 Views
I think you are misreading her. Skeeve the Great - 10/06/2010 07:47:06 PM 816 Views
Bingo *NM* Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:51:29 PM 582 Views
Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution. *NM* Logain - 10/06/2010 09:23:36 PM 533 Views
Re: Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution. Skeeve the Great - 10/06/2010 10:11:23 PM 1044 Views
Yes. You can't extrapolate a generalized macro level scale to micro level individuals. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:16:24 AM 885 Views
I don't agree Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:49:41 PM 870 Views
BAH! Its infuriating how you have so many blinders... Eerily Aes Sedai of you. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:54:23 PM 1008 Views
Hmm... Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:55:59 PM 786 Views
Because of the question to which she responded... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:57:55 PM 821 Views
Re: Because of the question to which she responded... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:06:16 PM 956 Views
Without contradicting the latter... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:15:11 PM 855 Views
Ah well Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:20:32 PM 825 Views
Which is even more evidence... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:23:28 PM 929 Views
Dude Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:30:57 PM 1036 Views
It isn't omission fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 10:54:47 PM 1009 Views
omg not this again *NM* BlackAdder - 10/06/2010 07:52:26 PM 965 Views
Great! Two of my OP strength ideas have been solidified! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:39:53 PM 1077 Views
Nope... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:46:31 PM 935 Views
Who said Cadsuane was 50? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:51:14 PM 969 Views
So how can Egwene be twice as strong as Moiraine, if Moiraine is at 55? Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:53:11 PM 831 Views
She cannot be because she isn't. Silviana can shield Egwene alone, for God's sake. So can Amys! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:56:26 PM 775 Views
Amys can't hold her properly Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:59:47 PM 811 Views
What about later that night? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:02:16 PM 816 Views
No she didn't darius_sedai - 16/06/2010 03:02:21 PM 927 Views
No she didn't what? fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 04:46:05 PM 982 Views
Re: No she didn't what? darius_sedai - 17/06/2010 06:16:16 AM 818 Views
Re: No she didn't what? fionwe1987 - 17/06/2010 06:02:57 PM 973 Views
you are arguing in a circle darius_sedai - 17/06/2010 06:31:19 PM 1297 Views
Why do you think it's a linear scale? Rurouni_Kenshin - 16/06/2010 05:25:56 AM 943 Views
That's simple... fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 06:36:44 AM 895 Views
Re: That's simple... Rurouni_Kenshin - 16/06/2010 12:27:07 PM 850 Views
Your concept is not mathematically right. So yeah, forget discussing it. fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 04:41:13 PM 1035 Views
Dang, Cyndane isn't using Cabriana's body. Gher - 10/06/2010 08:25:20 PM 884 Views
But they didn't look alike anyway. *NM* Etzel - 10/06/2010 08:59:35 PM 581 Views
Eh, yeah. Gher - 12/06/2010 08:24:10 PM 823 Views
The blue flash RAFO irritates me- I can't see how that will be relevant. The Min thing was new beetnemesis - 10/06/2010 08:50:52 PM 1015 Views
RJ already RAFOed the incident with Thom's knives/daggers before Etzel - 10/06/2010 08:57:52 PM 1099 Views
They RAFO way too much. Tom - 11/06/2010 12:25:56 AM 815 Views
It isn't, unless she's implying the Creator helped him out or some other such thing RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:56:49 AM 846 Views
Just to make things clear on the strength thing... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:08:02 PM 1126 Views
It is possible Maria was answering the first question and ignoring the second... Logain - 10/06/2010 09:29:59 PM 854 Views
That still proves my point... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:33:10 PM 1025 Views
Re: That still proves my point... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:45:39 PM 881 Views
Then why... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:00:00 PM 978 Views
Re: Then why... Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:07:56 PM 852 Views
God, what stupidity! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:10:32 PM 842 Views
Re: God, what stupidity! Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:16:38 PM 944 Views
It doesn't have to be 1-100. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:32:17 PM 894 Views
Re: It doesn't have to be 1-100. Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:41:02 PM 1167 Views
That's a mathematical impossibility... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 11:26:23 PM 1002 Views
Just popping in. I think you're arguing over non-existent delineations. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:44:40 AM 934 Views
You're pretty much agreeing with me, you know? fionwe1987 - 11/06/2010 12:32:44 PM 900 Views
Yes. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 14/06/2010 10:31:00 PM 1011 Views
Re: Just to make things clear on the strength thing... Bored - 14/06/2010 11:21:31 PM 1226 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 11:48:43 PM 820 Views
Also interesting... Etzel - 10/06/2010 09:38:27 PM 965 Views
I'm even more confused (parallel worlds and the Pattern) entyti - 10/06/2010 09:48:17 PM 937 Views
Nah,... DomA - 11/06/2010 11:38:20 AM 926 Views
Fascinating! entyti - 13/06/2010 02:30:42 AM 943 Views
You know, these things always end up pissing me off. Tom - 11/06/2010 12:25:05 AM 921 Views
I think she's saving that info for her WoT Encyclopedia. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:54:38 AM 987 Views
Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off. TaskmasterJack - 11/06/2010 03:22:53 AM 1029 Views
Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off. DomA - 11/06/2010 12:29:37 PM 965 Views
I agree Etzel - 11/06/2010 01:14:36 PM 1076 Views
Re: I agree TaskmasterJack - 12/06/2010 03:02:32 PM 853 Views
BS didn't answer with "Read and find out" Etzel - 12/06/2010 03:28:05 PM 895 Views
We were speaking about Maria giving a RAFO on the topic, not Sanderson. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 13/06/2010 12:05:17 AM 510 Views
Actually she said "No"... *NM* Etzel - 13/06/2010 01:06:18 AM 606 Views
I'll rephrase then. It was about Maria saying that she considered giving a RAFO on the question. TaskmasterJack - 13/06/2010 01:44:19 AM 900 Views
Yeah, sorry for the rolly-eyed smiley! Was a bit mean... Etzel - 13/06/2010 09:19:13 AM 906 Views
I agree with Jack and Sidious and not with you. Tom - 11/06/2010 03:20:30 PM 993 Views
Well, on the Thom question... Etzel - 11/06/2010 08:25:09 AM 881 Views
Yeah Sidious - 11/06/2010 08:26:33 AM 987 Views
Re: Yeah darius_sedai - 15/06/2010 12:25:21 AM 841 Views
Eh, practically useless. callandor1000 - 14/06/2010 11:50:06 PM 842 Views
I agree. I think she is saving the good stuff for the encyclopedia. *NM* RugbyPlayingAshaman - 15/06/2010 04:17:07 PM 477 Views
Yeah. I do think she's taking advantage of these poor saps, though. callandor1000 - 17/06/2010 03:52:33 PM 1427 Views
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