Cyndane is still stronger than Graendal, who is much, much stronger than Moiraine, and stronger than even Nynaeve.
Most people are of the opinion that this sort of thing is way beyond the Finns's abilities anyway (hopefully, TOM and the TOG episode will clarify a lot of those questions). Jordan made a point that their powers are limited and not "god like", and a lot of people are of the opinion that even a godly being like Shai'tan can't really alter someone's ability to channel (ie: he can't give boosts, and he can't reduce the ability for real, that it will turn out Cyndane's strength was reduced almost symbolically by a partial TP shield to punish her for what she did to Asmodean). Otherwise, all he can do is to remove your ability, by shielding or by transmigration into a body that can't channnel.
The Finns actually don't seem to have any "special powers" in matters related to the OP. They didn't make Mat immune to the OP, they rather gave him a ter'angreal that melted weaves, ignoring the part where Mat asked to be rid of Aes Sedai period. They decided interpreting his request to be rid of AS and the OP to mean he wanted to be protected from their weaving was a fair enough bargain (it sounds like the Finns cheat because they really don't want to have to refuse a deal). They didn't give him his memories back either, they didn't have his lost memories... he wasn't precise enough in his request, so they decided giving him a bunch of memories, a lot of them that would be useful to his destiny, could meet the letter, if not the spirit, of what he asked for. A lot of people believe like me the price the Finns ask in return is always a link to you to get to collect what you experience in life (but you can negotiate for how long this link will work, or maybe for which areas of your experiences will not to be collected etc.) - that's the only thing they're interested in - and their "gifts" are most often related to knowledge you wish to have, that their "powers" are pretty much related to mind-reading/memory collecting, not alterations to your person at large. We know they can't change the pattern either.).
IMO, the sort of gifts you can't ask of the Foxes are stuff like:
- I want to be stronger in the OP
- I want to be more beautiful
- I want this or that to happen in my life
- I want this or that Talent
while the sort of stuff you can ask of them is:
- I want to know how to make a device to travel between worlds
- I want to know as much as possible about the last Age
- I want to be able to read as many ancient languages as possible.
- I want an artefact that can make X.
- I want to learn a way to use the Portal Stones
- I want to know as much as possible about weaving saidar
That kind of stuff, there's a very good chance they have in their collection (I think they collect artefacts from all eras and worlds, and they have their own skills/technology to make some too) and they have in the collected memories of everyone who've ever made a deal with them, and they have the ability to imprint them in your mind.
I think after Nynaeve/Flinn went there, you could even ask "I want to learn all you have about the topic of healing severing". If they are truly the first to have done it among everyone who visited the Finns, then they would have no answer for you. If you are a non-channeler, you could end up with totally useless knowledge of Nynaeve's weave, but you would also have her thoughts about what's she's done and could explain to a channeller how to puzzle it out.
If you asked to learn all there is to learn about the WOS for instance, they could give you the relevant memories from everyone who've visited them who lived during the war, and all those from people who have read books about the WOS, down to innacurate scraps of information Joe Blow from Hawkwing's time knew about the WOS.
Basically, I think the Foxes are mostly scholars/collectors of everything they could get their hands on, memories and objects, from as many Ages back in time as they've been around and in contact with other realms.
And I think the Finns will bargain for some important piece of knowledge in TOM. They may not give it to Mat, as they already are collecting his memories, though if he thinks of a way to break the link, they may offer him something more so he does not break the link. If someone makes a new bargain, I'm thinking it's likely to be Noal, though, and it's possible Moiraine has made one (they may hold her prisoner for trespassing, though IMO they are holding her because they wish Mat to come back for her for some reason that isn't what Mat imagines, but the fact she's a prisoner may not be a motive to refuse to make a bargain with her, as they may be very greedy for her memories. She may have learned some pretty nifty stuff. I think there's a fair chance she's burned out, looks as young as Rand now, but has some extremely important knowledge for him.
Most people are of the opinion that this sort of thing is way beyond the Finns's abilities anyway (hopefully, TOM and the TOG episode will clarify a lot of those questions). Jordan made a point that their powers are limited and not "god like", and a lot of people are of the opinion that even a godly being like Shai'tan can't really alter someone's ability to channel (ie: he can't give boosts, and he can't reduce the ability for real, that it will turn out Cyndane's strength was reduced almost symbolically by a partial TP shield to punish her for what she did to Asmodean). Otherwise, all he can do is to remove your ability, by shielding or by transmigration into a body that can't channnel.
The Finns actually don't seem to have any "special powers" in matters related to the OP. They didn't make Mat immune to the OP, they rather gave him a ter'angreal that melted weaves, ignoring the part where Mat asked to be rid of Aes Sedai period. They decided interpreting his request to be rid of AS and the OP to mean he wanted to be protected from their weaving was a fair enough bargain (it sounds like the Finns cheat because they really don't want to have to refuse a deal). They didn't give him his memories back either, they didn't have his lost memories... he wasn't precise enough in his request, so they decided giving him a bunch of memories, a lot of them that would be useful to his destiny, could meet the letter, if not the spirit, of what he asked for. A lot of people believe like me the price the Finns ask in return is always a link to you to get to collect what you experience in life (but you can negotiate for how long this link will work, or maybe for which areas of your experiences will not to be collected etc.) - that's the only thing they're interested in - and their "gifts" are most often related to knowledge you wish to have, that their "powers" are pretty much related to mind-reading/memory collecting, not alterations to your person at large. We know they can't change the pattern either.).
IMO, the sort of gifts you can't ask of the Foxes are stuff like:
- I want to be stronger in the OP
- I want to be more beautiful
- I want this or that to happen in my life
- I want this or that Talent
while the sort of stuff you can ask of them is:
- I want to know how to make a device to travel between worlds
- I want to know as much as possible about the last Age
- I want to be able to read as many ancient languages as possible.
- I want an artefact that can make X.
- I want to learn a way to use the Portal Stones
- I want to know as much as possible about weaving saidar
That kind of stuff, there's a very good chance they have in their collection (I think they collect artefacts from all eras and worlds, and they have their own skills/technology to make some too) and they have in the collected memories of everyone who've ever made a deal with them, and they have the ability to imprint them in your mind.
I think after Nynaeve/Flinn went there, you could even ask "I want to learn all you have about the topic of healing severing". If they are truly the first to have done it among everyone who visited the Finns, then they would have no answer for you. If you are a non-channeler, you could end up with totally useless knowledge of Nynaeve's weave, but you would also have her thoughts about what's she's done and could explain to a channeller how to puzzle it out.
If you asked to learn all there is to learn about the WOS for instance, they could give you the relevant memories from everyone who've visited them who lived during the war, and all those from people who have read books about the WOS, down to innacurate scraps of information Joe Blow from Hawkwing's time knew about the WOS.
Basically, I think the Foxes are mostly scholars/collectors of everything they could get their hands on, memories and objects, from as many Ages back in time as they've been around and in contact with other realms.
And I think the Finns will bargain for some important piece of knowledge in TOM. They may not give it to Mat, as they already are collecting his memories, though if he thinks of a way to break the link, they may offer him something more so he does not break the link. If someone makes a new bargain, I'm thinking it's likely to be Noal, though, and it's possible Moiraine has made one (they may hold her prisoner for trespassing, though IMO they are holding her because they wish Mat to come back for her for some reason that isn't what Mat imagines, but the fact she's a prisoner may not be a motive to refuse to make a bargain with her, as they may be very greedy for her memories. She may have learned some pretty nifty stuff. I think there's a fair chance she's burned out, looks as young as Rand now, but has some extremely important knowledge for him.
This message last edited by DomA on 06/06/2010 at 12:25:09 AM
Did the Finns take Moiraine and Lanfear's strength in the OP and swap them?
05/06/2010 09:05:37 PM
- 1502 Views
Re: Did the Finns take Moiraine and Lanfear's strength in the OP and swap them?
05/06/2010 10:25:39 PM
- 741 Views
Post some Cyndane quotes. I thought she was still far more powerful than Mo
05/06/2010 10:30:02 PM
- 684 Views
or the difference between Lanfear and Cyndane is now in Moiraine
07/06/2010 01:25:04 PM
- 607 Views
no, cyndane is still the strongest female forsaken, and possibly strongest female channeler
05/06/2010 10:32:04 PM
- 1804 Views
I always thought this was funny- it's like her stupid diguise in tGH
06/06/2010 08:00:27 AM
- 797 Views
Nope...
06/06/2010 12:05:11 AM
- 862 Views
Not Shielded
06/06/2010 12:38:54 AM
- 730 Views
Re: Not Shielded
06/06/2010 01:51:45 PM
- 616 Views
Osan'gar could have felt the ability anyway
06/06/2010 03:07:39 PM
- 685 Views
Indeed
06/06/2010 04:54:05 PM
- 666 Views
Re: Indeed
06/06/2010 05:51:17 PM
- 677 Views
Tor QotW #9 hints at the physical size of the body limiting the quantity that can be channeled...
06/06/2010 06:42:22 PM
- 709 Views
This shield-theory was basically ruled out by BS
07/06/2010 09:44:05 AM
- 761 Views
That theory doesn't explain why Aran'gar and Osan'gar and Moridin
07/06/2010 12:44:56 PM
- 709 Views
I think...
07/06/2010 01:10:29 PM
- 695 Views
I don't agree that this is the case
07/06/2010 01:23:44 PM
- 668 Views
We don't know...
07/06/2010 01:46:07 PM
- 621 Views
Halima is described as pretty much an average sized woman
07/06/2010 02:32:04 PM
- 785 Views
Yeah, but...
07/06/2010 02:37:53 PM
- 580 Views
Dude, he was one of the Forsaken!
07/06/2010 02:54:20 PM
- 685 Views
As said...
07/06/2010 03:07:14 PM
- 627 Views
I'll fall outta my chair if this turns out to be the answer
07/06/2010 03:11:17 PM
- 627 Views
The problem with this is...
07/06/2010 03:21:42 PM
- 623 Views
*shrugs*
07/06/2010 04:39:40 PM
- 611 Views
As pointed out, I think it would make sense. But yeah, we will see! *NM*
07/06/2010 04:48:21 PM
- 597 Views
I agree with Daurius ^ but I still think the Finn could've been the culprit... allow me to elaborate
08/06/2010 12:20:44 AM
- 677 Views
There are quotes
08/06/2010 08:49:17 AM
- 676 Views
He actually said might involve not a definitive there.
08/06/2010 02:46:00 PM
- 813 Views
Doesn't make much sense...
08/06/2010 03:12:48 PM
- 646 Views
Re: Doesn't make much sense...
08/06/2010 03:20:54 PM
- 614 Views
The quote...
08/06/2010 03:42:48 PM
- 589 Views
Honestly I've yet to hear a single theory I'm particularly in love with
08/06/2010 03:45:34 PM
- 626 Views