Why not? How often did he think of Egwene in A Plain Wooden Box? It might have been there already
Cannoli Send a noteboard - 07/09/2009 05:29:27 AM
Whether or not we agree on the way these events must be viewed, Rand knew all this in his final PoV chapter in KoD as well. He touched upon the meeting between Jahar and the Rebels, yet did not indicate any regrets at having handed over 47 Asha'man to Egwene.
Yeah, that DID seem out of place with all the other regrets he expressed in that chapter... Doh! He moves past his regrets! If he can blow off the loss of his own hand, which he has had for 21 years, what are a few lesser initiates of the Black Tower sent off on TDY? And don't even claim that act indicated any sort of goodwill on his part towards her. When he first floats the idea in CoT, it is as an expression of his belief in her hostility! He thinks that no matter how reasonable and justifiable the Asha'man's actions, Egwene will jump on him and cause problems for it! He is EXPECTING Egwene to NOT give him the benefit of the doubt, and his comments about her being a sharp bargainner suggests that even knowing the innocence of the situation, she will still try to wring all advantage out of it. His offer to Egwene to bond the Asha'man was NOT a gesture of trust or felicity, but more of a gesture of appeasement. It was about as much a token of friendship as the Sudetenland was a gesture of friendship from Chamberlain & Deladier to Adolf Hitler. Logain would have also mentioned that Egwene let him off after he assured her he wanted to go to the Black Tower,
Why would he do that? In the first place, that is not true and in the second place, how would he know Egwene let him go? Egwene ended the conversation after his outburst at HER, and told him they'd talk when he was calmer. He had no way of knowing that she was reacting positively to his declaration. She was trying to conceal her intentions and they were surrounded by six Aes Sedai. If she was concealing her positive reaction from them, there is no way Logain could have seen it. She certainly would not have been foolish enough to allow Logain to know she was responsible for his escape! Not even I would claim she is that stupid. so I don't see how this incident could be of any significance, even if Logain did talk to Rand about his experiences in the Rebel camp.
It would be significant because Egwene implied the Aes Sedai might KILL Logain for the crime of being male and able to channel! Do can't understand HOW this could POSSIBLY be of interest to the leaders of a group of male channelers contemplating relations between their groups?! Of course, you're even more ignorant than Egwene at Intrigue 101, so I suppose I should not be surprised you can't grasp this concept either.As for what Merise and Jahar encountered, again, all this was true in his final PoV in KoD, and its not like he did not think of the issue then. All he said was that he couldn't be bothered to find a male equivalent to that weave. There wasn't even a trace of resentment against the Rebels, no sign of anger that Egwene was not present to receive his emissaries.
And of course, he thought of every single character and contemplated their trustworthiness and possible friendship with him in those moments, didn't he? He didn't think ANYTHIGN about that incident, because as he prepared to go to a meeting that would be attended by enemy saidar channelers, he was aware that it was possible for such women to detect his kind in ways he could not reciprocate. He was not thinking about rebels or Aes Sedai or Egwene, but about channeling and fighting female channelers, which is why he mentioned the detectiong weave. There was no reason to think about the political ramifications of the reception, and he had a much more important meeting on his mind right then. And even if we DO stipulate your position that he was not so negative and hostile towards Egwene and Salidar at that particular moment, well, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING happened after that which might push him further along the path of anger, suspicion and negativity, right?
Or do you think he thinks about something once, and that locks it into his brain and he never ever changes his opinion on that matter again?
Did you read my post before you made this reply?
Yes, I replied to it too, but sidious locked the post prematurely while I was writing my reply, which disappeared it when I hit submit. Because I celarly stated that from Rand's PoV, he does have reasons to mistrust the Aes Sedai, and hence Egwene as their leader. Reiterating my own point as an argument against me is ridiculous.
Expecting me to keep track of everything you've said in each post is ridiculous. In addition, I did not see it as refuting you, but simply discussing the matter, so I was not aware we had to take sides. If you ARE aware that Rand has his reasons for mistrusting sisters, what are you pissing and moaning about?As for the rest, another notch implies a prior notches, which are plainly absent. Whatever transgression you might attribute to the Rebel embassy, Rand had no clue at the time that Egwene was their Amyrlin.
But these are the people she associates with by choice and is loyal to. While Merana and co did not have anything to do with the bonding by Alanna, their continued association with her is a mark against them, and a reason for Rand to be hostile and suspicious. People don't make judgments in a vacuum. He knows for certain that they left with their orders way before Egwene even left Cairhein, and when he finds out she is the Rebel Amyrlin in WH, he is incredulous, but shows not a whiff of anger at her for becoming the leader of the Rebels, or for co-opting Mat's army to her own to pull down Elaida, who, it might interest you to know, Rand trusts not at all since the first book, and with far better reason.
Well, since it was not from his PoV HOW CAN YOU TELL? In the first place, you should recall that not only was he not the PoV character for the scene where he reveals that information, he was attempting to conceal his emotions from the PoV character, and quite possibly confronting EVERY WOMAN HE HAS LAID HANDS ON in the past six months MIGHT have been a SLIGHTLY higher emotional priority for him than venting his spleen on the latest perfidy of Egwene, whom he has been mistrusting to one degree or another since before their first conversation in the series. When you get right down to it, his general lack of contemplation of her untrustworthy image is MORE supportive of his current attitude, since it could be interpreted as his accepting her lack of support for him as the way things are. It's just one of those things he dosen't even worry about any more. How often does he reflect on the Dark One's enmity towards him, or Mat & Perrin's friendship? It is just something he takes for granted. In the second place, as you note, she's at least going against his enemy, and his enemies fighting one another is good enough for now. He doesn't even dignify Nynaeve's suggestion that Egwene could help with a rebuttal. With so many other things occupying his mind from his plans to cleanse the taint, to his personal danger from the renegades, to his romantic chickens all coming home to roost any second now, Egwene's latest transgression, being an issue of only secondary concern, is understandably not something he is going to give a lot of thought to. She isn't actively getting in his way, so she can wait for now.
My point is not that Rand cannot be exaggerating here. Nor that his mistrust of Egwene makes no sense. But the was he speaks, he clearly does distrust her as much as he says he does, and LTT associates her and her Aes Sedai with Latra Pose's clique.
And he associates Taim with Demandred. I guess you have proven Taimandred! Maybe LTT does, but it has little to do with Rand's feelings. There is plenty of reasonable cause for Rand to hold that attitude, however incorrectly, even if he is exaggerating. The whole theory rests on the suddenness of Rand's vehemence against Egwene, and that vehemence is clear to anyone who has actually had their eyes open while reading the books.
Yes, and it has been building. He has grown increasingly suspicious and hostile towards her due to a series of issues arising, from her reluctance to help him, to her alignment with people who sought to interfere with him, to her outright sympathies with Aes Sedai, none of whom he can trust, according to their mutual mentor, to her accepting commands from the women who have been as much an annoyance to him as Elaida, to finding out that she is not only in agreement with them, but has become their leader, to his stated expectation that she will make trouble over his people defending their lives and families from women who are attacking them in defiance of their own laws. There is a long train of events and actions that can be perceived by him as unfriendly or evidence of hostility on her part. At the same time, there has been an ongoing deterioration of his perspective and outlook, making him increasingly likely to mistrust individuals and see the worst their actions. Even if the characterization is unclear, the events of recent books are highly unlikely to have had a positive influence on his outlook. He has been imprisoned in conditions which exacerbate previous issues, been disappointed in the personal results of the Cleansing (no effect on his illness), been forced to offer a truce to his enemies, lost his hand and been diagnosed with a mental disorder that not only puts his recent issues in a whole new light, but exposes them to his companions. Combine these two chains of events and Rand's reaction is hardly out of the blue.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
Your thoughts on TGS - Chapter 1
05/09/2009 05:23:47 PM
- 5926 Views
For all of those whining about it not sounding like RJ:
05/09/2009 05:47:07 PM
- 1848 Views
You're forgetting one thing.
06/09/2009 12:13:03 AM
- 1801 Views
And if he were to off Egwene? What would your opinion be? *NM*
07/09/2009 05:38:36 AM
- 893 Views
He dislikes Sanderson's prose. Plot content is irrelevant here. *NM*
08/09/2009 06:44:42 PM
- 992 Views
Pretty good.
05/09/2009 07:35:41 PM
- 45230 Views
Re: Pretty good.
05/09/2009 09:13:44 PM
- 1716 Views
I found it well-written, but rather uninteresting story-wise *NM*
05/09/2009 08:04:15 PM
- 991 Views
because there should totaly be massive plot development in the first chapter
05/09/2009 08:29:18 PM
- 1533 Views
I'm tired of passive story telling.
05/09/2009 08:57:13 PM
- 1493 Views
I'm tired of mindless readers
06/09/2009 01:54:14 AM
- 1579 Views
Re: I'm tired of mindless readers
06/09/2009 04:01:56 AM
- 1724 Views
I was over critical.
06/09/2009 04:56:48 AM
- 1371 Views
A real analyst or literary critic would laugh his ass off to see this...
06/09/2009 06:51:57 AM
- 1557 Views
Re: because there should totaly be massive plot development in the first chapter
06/09/2009 01:22:09 AM
- 1502 Views
A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers)
05/09/2009 09:34:44 PM
- 1620 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers)
05/09/2009 10:03:59 PM
- 1635 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers)
06/09/2009 03:18:41 AM
- 1458 Views
I think Lews Therin's comments to Rand were the most hugely significant part of the chapter.
06/09/2009 01:15:05 AM
- 1400 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers)
06/09/2009 02:52:47 AM
- 2044 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers)
06/09/2009 07:08:08 AM
- 1362 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers)
06/09/2009 10:31:20 AM
- 1798 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers)
07/09/2009 05:09:38 AM
- 1419 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers)
08/09/2009 10:19:13 PM
- 1306 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers)
10/09/2009 06:20:56 AM
- 1552 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers)
08/09/2009 11:46:44 PM
- 1471 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers)
07/09/2009 04:41:47 AM
- 1475 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers)
09/09/2009 03:48:53 PM
- 1416 Views
Good post, but I have an alternative explanation for the saidin barrier
28/09/2009 12:53:41 AM
- 1223 Views
Robert Jordon vs Brandon Sanderson
06/09/2009 12:02:13 AM
- 1433 Views
Re: Robert Jordon vs Brandon Sanderson
06/09/2009 05:12:25 PM
- 1286 Views
Re: Robert Jordon vs Brandon Sanderson
06/09/2009 07:20:45 PM
- 1284 Views
I found it...interesting --spoilers--
06/09/2009 01:33:11 AM
- 1614 Views
I liked it
06/09/2009 07:58:09 AM
- 1397 Views
Some questions...
06/09/2009 08:04:30 AM
- 1427 Views
Theory: Rand and Egwene. What is up?
06/09/2009 07:59:58 AM
- 2291 Views
A simpler answer
06/09/2009 03:04:04 PM
- 1484 Views
Really?
06/09/2009 03:38:59 PM
- 1349 Views
Look at what he has seen...
06/09/2009 11:45:44 PM
- 1292 Views
And all this happeened in the few days between the end of KoD and the beginning of tGS?
07/09/2009 12:35:29 AM
- 1342 Views
Why not? How often did he think of Egwene in A Plain Wooden Box? It might have been there already
07/09/2009 05:29:27 AM
- 1466 Views
She treated him like a pawn when she "passed" him over to Elayne way back. NM *NM*
07/09/2009 02:49:18 PM
- 880 Views
are we already at the location of the book cover?
06/09/2009 11:49:06 AM
- 1375 Views
Two Things
07/09/2009 12:25:31 AM
- 1452 Views
My thoughts are that the main page is being crowded by too many duplicate threads
07/09/2009 10:23:41 PM
- 1378 Views
I know why Rand is mad at Egwene...read inside to find out
11/09/2009 03:15:00 AM
- 1345 Views
Ummm... the embassy's proposal was accepted, and (presumably) communicated to Egwene at the earliest *NM*
11/09/2009 04:16:31 AM
- 915 Views
Semirhage isn't scaring anyone
28/09/2009 02:32:34 PM
- 1676 Views
Indeed...
28/09/2009 03:36:55 PM
- 1290 Views
Will the Chosen pass that edict down or just not act themselves?
28/09/2009 10:29:53 PM
- 1253 Views