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Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) redhand Send a noteboard - 07/09/2009 05:09:38 AM

Eh, he went even further than I take it. I don't think Egwene would gentle him before Tarmon Gai'don. But if he survived TG, I don't think she'd hesitate to gentle him and put him to trial for his "atrocities" against the Aes Sedai so she could get all the nations under her thumb completely.
Hence the value of Elayne. For ego reasons if nothing else, she cannot let the Prince-Consort of Andor and father of the Daughter-heir be subjected to a foreign authority. And with all these conveniently located Asha'man who are specifically trained in One Power combat, and tend to look for excuses to prove their equality or superiority to Aes Sedai, and who probably crave acceptance in society on the level Aes Sedai enjoy...well, any overt action on Egwene's part against Rand would be to the cause of the nations freeing themselves from White Tower hegemony as the expedition to seize the powder at Lexington and Concord was to the American cause of independence. I think that is the purpose of Egwene - however she might agree with the idea, she will prevent the Tower from doing this sort of thing, and preserve it from overreaching. And she'll get the credit from her fans here for her moral stance, when in truth it is simply recognition that she can't get away with it.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not really out to get you.
That's what my pastor used to say.


What difference does it make if he's ignoring his pain or if he does the Aiel thing and "sings" while he's hacked into itty bitty pieces? He's dead either way. He suffers either way. So who cares whether he "feels" the pain or not? This whole thing is like refusing a terminal patient morphine because you want him to "feel" his last few moments of life and think he should suck it up and "love" the pain.
Except Rand is not a terminal patient on a hospital bed, he is the only one who can bring the plane in for a safe landing, and he is becoming hooked on morphine, and has moved on to seeking stronger drugs which will distort his reflexes, perceptions and bodily functions, and cause him to do something stupid, crazy or indifferent to collateral damage. Like maybe cause a loss of cabin pressure, because he's so high he misses the warning lights, and as a result, safely lands a plane full of bodies.

and accepts that he's going to have even more pain before it's over with. At the end of the chapter, it's obvious that he's ready to get on with it and die already. I think it's a bit asinine to expect, much less want, someone to do a happy dance at the fact that he's getting hacked apart and dying to save a bunch of thankless jerks who either get off on him suffering, want to leash him like an animal so they can stab him to death themselves in order to "win", or want to see him dead and gone. That he's willing, and ready, to do it should be good enough. To want more than that is just inhumane and mean - to me, it'd be no different than telling a woman she's about to be gang raped and gutted alive
Except she's crossing her legs as tightly as she can, rather than taking up arms to defend herself, and incidentally the next victim of the gang. Rand isn't offering a noble sacrifice, he's looking for an easy way out. He has to confront that Dark One to prevent him from destroying the world, and he has shown more interest in getting it over with than actually protecting the world. His whole attitude that everyone can go f*** themselves once he's dead is completely against the spirit of what he has to do. Aridhol might have turned themselves into a rabid beast to fight the Shadow, but Rand is simply going to let the Shadow kill him for the same reason - neither can stand the price that is needed to keep up the fight. Do you think the men of Manetheren marched to the bank of the Tarendrelle thinking "Thank the Light! We can finally get killed and give up all of this marching and fighting and eating crappy food and taking injuries and losing friends and doing strenuous physical labor and living in squallor to protect people who mock us for going out of our way to do what is right instead of what is most advantageous for us!"

You cite the problem - Rand's life is a burden. Giving up a burden is not a sacrifice, and he cannot sacrifice what he does not value. You can't buy the salvation of the world with a bad check. Cadsuane & Sorilea want to put something into his account before it bounces.


I agree with cannoli in general here. The Asha'man will achieve parity with AS sooner or later. It is like a powder keg, and any excuse to start the process can result in huge fighting.

It is only possible to threaten someone if they have something to loss to begin with. So far, the motivation for Ashaman to fight for the Light has been purely moral, and that is really weak when they face true danger. To counter Taim influence, the Black Tower needs to have the same kind of political and economical power as the White Tower, and to stand on its own, instead of at the grace of the Dragon Reborn.

An army is never cheap, nuclear army especially so. Trying to build an army on the cheap will surely result in the army defect at the worst possible time.
This message last edited by redhand on 07/09/2009 at 05:10:22 AM
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Your thoughts on TGS - Chapter 1 - 05/09/2009 05:23:47 PM 5930 Views
For all of those whining about it not sounding like RJ: - 05/09/2009 05:47:07 PM 1852 Views
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You're forgetting one thing. - 06/09/2009 12:13:03 AM 1807 Views
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all recap, no meat - 14/09/2009 12:33:35 PM 1433 Views
Pretty good. - 05/09/2009 07:35:41 PM 45238 Views
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Re: Pretty good. - 06/09/2009 01:19:22 AM 2020 Views
Re: Pretty good. - 06/09/2009 08:08:38 AM 1653 Views
Re: Pretty good. - 13/09/2009 01:22:22 PM 1391 Views
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Re: I'm tired of passive story telling. - 05/09/2009 10:42:57 PM 1437 Views
Which escape? - 05/09/2009 11:10:01 PM 1467 Views
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Re: I'm tired of mindless readers - 07/09/2009 04:39:36 AM 1453 Views
Re: I'm tired of mindless readers - 07/09/2009 10:42:29 PM 1441 Views
I was over critical. - 06/09/2009 04:56:48 AM 1376 Views
It's been happening since Book IV btw. - 16/09/2009 05:30:52 PM 1239 Views
A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) - 05/09/2009 09:34:44 PM 1626 Views
I think Lews Therin's comments to Rand were the most hugely significant part of the chapter. - 06/09/2009 01:15:05 AM 1406 Views
I don't really agree... - 06/09/2009 03:50:08 AM 1390 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) - 06/09/2009 02:52:47 AM 2049 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) - 06/09/2009 07:08:08 AM 1368 Views
Just answer one question... - 06/09/2009 07:53:12 AM 1852 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) - 06/09/2009 10:31:20 AM 1805 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) - 07/09/2009 05:09:38 AM 1425 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) - 08/09/2009 10:19:13 PM 1313 Views
If I may make a few somewhat irrelevant interjections... - 09/09/2009 04:44:45 AM 1332 Views
Re: If I may make a few somewhat irrelevant interjections... - 14/09/2009 04:46:29 PM 1485 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) - 10/09/2009 06:20:56 AM 1556 Views
On Egwene... - 10/09/2009 04:33:58 PM 1379 Views
Nynaeve - 08/09/2009 05:43:43 AM 1464 Views
Re: Nynaeve - 08/09/2009 08:06:20 AM 1333 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) - 07/09/2009 04:41:47 AM 1485 Views
Answers, short, long and longer. - 07/09/2009 11:27:53 PM 1393 Views
I think you missed some things. (spoilers) - 16/09/2009 05:21:43 PM 1175 Views
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First thought...a typo! ner vous = nervous. *NM* - 05/09/2009 09:55:28 PM 933 Views
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This is what RJ said. - 06/09/2009 12:47:26 AM 1420 Views
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Re: Robert Jordon vs Brandon Sanderson - 06/09/2009 07:20:45 PM 1291 Views
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six questions and nine statements - 06/09/2009 04:47:52 AM 1450 Views
Re: Your thoughts on TGS - Chapter 1 - 06/09/2009 04:51:04 AM 1399 Views
Re: Your thoughts on TGS - Chapter 1 - 06/09/2009 07:30:53 AM 1497 Views
I liked it - 06/09/2009 07:58:09 AM 1403 Views
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Re: Some questions... - 06/09/2009 08:53:20 AM 1406 Views
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Theory: Rand and Egwene. What is up? - 06/09/2009 07:59:58 AM 2297 Views
Also - 06/09/2009 08:24:45 AM 1445 Views
A simpler answer - 06/09/2009 03:04:04 PM 1491 Views
Really? - 06/09/2009 03:38:59 PM 1354 Views
are we already at the location of the book cover? - 06/09/2009 11:49:06 AM 1379 Views
Re: are we already at the location of the book cover? - 06/09/2009 02:43:24 PM 1389 Views
I still think it's Aviendha - 07/09/2009 05:14:50 AM 1223 Views
Omniscient narrator not neutral enough, for one... - 06/09/2009 04:17:51 PM 1541 Views
Yip - 06/09/2009 04:29:40 PM 1484 Views
Yes... - 06/09/2009 04:39:00 PM 1347 Views
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Moiraine - 07/09/2009 01:19:08 AM 1529 Views
The Moiraine thing is dumb - 09/09/2009 09:53:51 PM 1394 Views
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uh - 09/09/2009 10:57:17 PM 1373 Views
Timeline? - 07/09/2009 05:10:16 AM 1371 Views
Re: Timeline? - 07/09/2009 05:52:50 PM 1367 Views
So what chapter symbol is it going to have? *NM* - 07/09/2009 08:09:54 AM 848 Views
the dragon in COT chap 23 ornaments *NM* - 07/09/2009 01:28:58 PM 858 Views
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Red stone doorway. - 07/09/2009 03:27:22 PM 1300 Views
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No - 07/09/2009 07:57:57 PM 1321 Views
Questions, Comments Thoughts and Theories about tGS - 07/09/2009 09:09:05 PM 1414 Views
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Hrm... - 08/09/2009 05:28:19 AM 1435 Views
Enjoyed it - 08/09/2009 01:35:03 AM 1367 Views
Ready for More - 08/09/2009 04:25:19 PM 1427 Views
... - 08/09/2009 07:24:46 PM 1349 Views
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It's his increasing paranoia and dehumanization. - 15/09/2009 03:03:53 AM 1357 Views
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Semirhage isn't scaring anyone - 28/09/2009 02:32:34 PM 1687 Views
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