Estimating potential is exact, fragmentary historical notes are not. And RJ disproves your point..
Shannow Send a noteboard - 04/06/2010 02:57:32 PM
A female channeler can estimate the potential of another channeler very accurately.
This is a skill that is utilised in the Tower on a continuous basis, and taught to novices at a very early stage.
The reasons behind the loss of Traveling and the exact length of time since the last dreamwalker are misinterpreted and inaccurately remembered bits of historical information. Not a current skill which is highly refined, like estimating potential is.
I know you WANT Egwene to be close to Nynaeve in strength. But that is unfortunately not what the books tell us. And it is clearly not what RJ portrayed.
To quote RJ from memory (and please correct me if I use the term Wondergirls instead of Egwene or Elayne or Aviendha or whichever of those three he used in his quote):
"The Wondergirls are a step up in strength from modern Aes Sedai (feel free to insert the name of the specific Aes Sedai he may have mentioned - it might have been Moiraine), and the female Forsaken are another step up from them."
So that gives us a clear indication that RJ saw Ewgene to be sitting roughly halfway up the ladder between modern Aes Sedai at the bottom and the average female Forsaken at the top.
If we are interpreting RJ's "steps" as referring to absolute jumps in strength, then we can show quite easily that since Egwene is roughly twice as strong as a strong modern sister, that you can add another strong sister to Egwene's full potential to get to Nynaeve's strength.
That means that Nynaeve is as strong as 3 strong sisters, and 50% stronger than Egwene.
If, however, we see RJ's "steps" as proportional steps up, then it means that if Egwene is twice as strong as a strong sister, then Nynaeve is twice again as strong as Egwene (since the proportional gap represents a doubling of strength).
I tend to be conservative and lean towards the former - the absolute jump in strength. Which is the lower estimate of the two.
Which - to conclude - means that Egwene is two thirds as strong as Nynaeve, or put differently Nynaeve is 50% stronger than Egwene.
Egwene = 2 strong sisters
Nynaeve = 3 strong sisters.
Lanfear is significanlty stronger than that, and might come close to equaling 4 strong sisters, which would make her capable of at least standing up to Rand for a short period of time. This is necessary seeing as Rand is able to face 4 sisters quite easily, and Lanfear should theoretically be able to come close to matching him.
If you understood the books as well as those of us who have been reading and debating about them for over a decade, then you would see the bigger picture here.
This is a skill that is utilised in the Tower on a continuous basis, and taught to novices at a very early stage.
The reasons behind the loss of Traveling and the exact length of time since the last dreamwalker are misinterpreted and inaccurately remembered bits of historical information. Not a current skill which is highly refined, like estimating potential is.
I know you WANT Egwene to be close to Nynaeve in strength. But that is unfortunately not what the books tell us. And it is clearly not what RJ portrayed.
To quote RJ from memory (and please correct me if I use the term Wondergirls instead of Egwene or Elayne or Aviendha or whichever of those three he used in his quote):
"The Wondergirls are a step up in strength from modern Aes Sedai (feel free to insert the name of the specific Aes Sedai he may have mentioned - it might have been Moiraine), and the female Forsaken are another step up from them."
So that gives us a clear indication that RJ saw Ewgene to be sitting roughly halfway up the ladder between modern Aes Sedai at the bottom and the average female Forsaken at the top.
If we are interpreting RJ's "steps" as referring to absolute jumps in strength, then we can show quite easily that since Egwene is roughly twice as strong as a strong modern sister, that you can add another strong sister to Egwene's full potential to get to Nynaeve's strength.
That means that Nynaeve is as strong as 3 strong sisters, and 50% stronger than Egwene.
If, however, we see RJ's "steps" as proportional steps up, then it means that if Egwene is twice as strong as a strong sister, then Nynaeve is twice again as strong as Egwene (since the proportional gap represents a doubling of strength).
I tend to be conservative and lean towards the former - the absolute jump in strength. Which is the lower estimate of the two.
Which - to conclude - means that Egwene is two thirds as strong as Nynaeve, or put differently Nynaeve is 50% stronger than Egwene.
Egwene = 2 strong sisters
Nynaeve = 3 strong sisters.
Lanfear is significanlty stronger than that, and might come close to equaling 4 strong sisters, which would make her capable of at least standing up to Rand for a short period of time. This is necessary seeing as Rand is able to face 4 sisters quite easily, and Lanfear should theoretically be able to come close to matching him.
If you understood the books as well as those of us who have been reading and debating about them for over a decade, then you would see the bigger picture here.
This message last edited by Shannow on 04/06/2010 at 02:58:16 PM
Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
31/05/2010 02:17:06 PM
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Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
31/05/2010 04:18:08 PM
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I don't know. Elayne knows how strong a woman needs to be in order to activate the Bowl.
31/05/2010 07:51:08 PM
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Egwene plus Aviendha roughly equal Lanfaer. And yet Lanfear isn't close to double Nynaeve's strength
31/05/2010 09:07:06 PM
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Egwene and Aviendha combined in TFoH (when Avi had been channeling for only a few months)
31/05/2010 09:22:17 PM
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We've done this so many times. Even I have lost the strength for it. What can I still muster...
31/05/2010 09:38:24 PM
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again with the interpretive quoting
31/05/2010 11:05:58 PM
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Individual interpretation is all we've got really
01/06/2010 06:32:05 PM
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agreed, sort of
04/06/2010 12:57:00 PM
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Consider this...
04/06/2010 01:21:43 PM
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You continue to translate things. That is NOT how the quote reads
04/06/2010 01:30:43 PM
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Not my fault if the books prove you wrong
04/06/2010 01:41:00 PM
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I'm denying that you have a clue
04/06/2010 01:51:14 PM
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Bonfire next to a candle. I rest my case.
04/06/2010 01:53:59 PM
- 442 Views
then Nynaeve is the Creator
04/06/2010 02:03:27 PM
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Estimating potential is exact, fragmentary historical notes are not. And RJ disproves your point..
04/06/2010 02:57:32 PM
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The books disagree with this
04/06/2010 03:24:46 PM
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Right, NOW we're getting somewhere...
04/06/2010 03:57:32 PM
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You are hilarious
04/06/2010 04:06:37 PM
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Close the door on your way out...
04/06/2010 04:21:11 PM
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no I just refuse to bother with a jackass who doesn't know the text well enough to debate *NM*
04/06/2010 10:35:09 PM
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Re: agreed, sort of
04/06/2010 04:46:59 PM
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this doesn't square in any way with Bell Curve though
04/06/2010 10:33:04 PM
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No, Rand was not stronger than the male Forsaken at the start of tSR...
01/06/2010 09:27:47 AM
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Aginor burned out attempting to use the Eye, which Rand managed to do without burning out *NM*
01/06/2010 12:06:01 PM
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The Eye was just a source of the Power - like a well, just bigger.
01/06/2010 12:17:29 PM
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nope
01/06/2010 12:52:46 PM
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Re: I don't know. Elayne knows how strong a woman needs to be in order to activate the Bowl.
01/06/2010 02:18:38 AM
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I'm not trying to say that Nynaeve isn't significantly stronger
01/06/2010 12:44:20 PM
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If 3 sisters can hold you, it probaly means you are as strong as 4 sisters...
01/06/2010 06:37:01 PM
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Re: I'm not trying to say that Nynaeve isn't significantly stronger
01/06/2010 06:43:08 PM
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Sidenote: What's with Elayne dumping people into the river?
31/05/2010 06:22:26 PM
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Not Elayne, Egwene in Cairhien. She went to meet the Windfinder and got kicked out. Wasn't awesome *NM*
31/05/2010 07:13:25 PM
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Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
31/05/2010 07:21:32 PM
- 530 Views
Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
31/05/2010 07:41:02 PM
- 502 Views
Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
01/06/2010 06:07:35 PM
- 440 Views
Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
01/06/2010 06:21:29 PM
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Remember gatways
31/05/2010 09:15:31 PM
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I agree that it's probably some kind of max height you can lift an object
31/05/2010 09:25:25 PM
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I think lifting people on flows of air is much like weaving bridges.
01/06/2010 07:42:59 AM
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I'm pretty convinced that 'strength' really refers to your skill and experience.
01/06/2010 08:35:16 PM
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Strength is a touchy word in this case...
03/06/2010 07:31:19 AM
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