Everyone seems to read the series and they try to make a scale for themselves regarding how strong the channelers are. It all comes down to interpretation. Anyone who says that their strength list is irrefutable is massively incorrect, because even people who read this stuff all the time have to rely on speculation for the most part.
There is only one irrefutable type of statement i.e. when a channeler who is at full strength comments on the strength of another character who is at full strength. This phenomenon is rare, but has happened in the case of Graendal comparing herself to Cyndane, for instance.
The problem with our Egwene-Nynaeve comparisons is that we've never had direct comparisons between the two, and most importantly, they both spend most of the series building up their strength and commenting on how strong they are at the time. Even if Egwene comments on Nynaeve's strength in the next book, we still need to know if Egwene is at her full strength, and if Nynaeve is too.
Only a year ago, almost no one would have contested that Semirhage and Mesaana had similar strengths in the Power. Mesaana compared herself to Semirhage and said that they were relatively similar. We now know that Mesaana is weaker than Semirhage, despite one of the stronger statements we've had regarding two Forsaken comparing each other. RJ always said he wanted to keep it vague, and this is proof. To compare Egwene and Nynaeve at their strengths at that time based on a quote to power a ter'angreal is just as erroneous.
Anyway, I've been in tons of these debates, and I'll always think Nynaeve is much stronger than Egwene. My simple proof is this : Alivia is said to be considerably stronger than Nynaeve at that stage in WH. Nynaeve was at least as strong as Moghedien in TSR and thus even stronger in WH when this comment was made. This means that a woman can be much stronger than Moghedien. There are only six women stronger than Nynaeve, so it makes sense that Nynaeve is very close to the upper strength limit. Considering Egwene can never reach Moghedien's level, it makes Nynaeve much stronger than Egwene.
Unless you believe that Lanfear is half again as strong as Nynaeve for some reason, or that Reanne was wrong... or some other reason you have your own beliefs. That's my 'academic' reasoning for it anyway. I've also got the general impression that whenever Elayne or Egwene have wanted to describe something indescribable or monumental regarding the Power, they've referred to Nynaeve. Their statements convey a sense of awe, as if they could never approach that level even from a distance. Other readers may feel differently.
There is only one irrefutable type of statement i.e. when a channeler who is at full strength comments on the strength of another character who is at full strength. This phenomenon is rare, but has happened in the case of Graendal comparing herself to Cyndane, for instance.
The problem with our Egwene-Nynaeve comparisons is that we've never had direct comparisons between the two, and most importantly, they both spend most of the series building up their strength and commenting on how strong they are at the time. Even if Egwene comments on Nynaeve's strength in the next book, we still need to know if Egwene is at her full strength, and if Nynaeve is too.
Only a year ago, almost no one would have contested that Semirhage and Mesaana had similar strengths in the Power. Mesaana compared herself to Semirhage and said that they were relatively similar. We now know that Mesaana is weaker than Semirhage, despite one of the stronger statements we've had regarding two Forsaken comparing each other. RJ always said he wanted to keep it vague, and this is proof. To compare Egwene and Nynaeve at their strengths at that time based on a quote to power a ter'angreal is just as erroneous.
Anyway, I've been in tons of these debates, and I'll always think Nynaeve is much stronger than Egwene. My simple proof is this : Alivia is said to be considerably stronger than Nynaeve at that stage in WH. Nynaeve was at least as strong as Moghedien in TSR and thus even stronger in WH when this comment was made. This means that a woman can be much stronger than Moghedien. There are only six women stronger than Nynaeve, so it makes sense that Nynaeve is very close to the upper strength limit. Considering Egwene can never reach Moghedien's level, it makes Nynaeve much stronger than Egwene.
Unless you believe that Lanfear is half again as strong as Nynaeve for some reason, or that Reanne was wrong... or some other reason you have your own beliefs. That's my 'academic' reasoning for it anyway. I've also got the general impression that whenever Elayne or Egwene have wanted to describe something indescribable or monumental regarding the Power, they've referred to Nynaeve. Their statements convey a sense of awe, as if they could never approach that level even from a distance. Other readers may feel differently.
I've always thought "considerably" was a problem. What does it really mean? Especially when coming from Reanne, whose world view is rather skewed in terms of OP Strength. When you are talking about the volume of power involved with Nynaeve and Alivia even a small percent difference (let's say 5% for arguments sake) would equate to a "considerable volume of saidar" to a woman less than half as strong as these women.
Let's say Alivia is a 99, and is 5% stronger than Nynaeve. When you are Reanne and that 5% represents maybe as much as 15% of the total amount of saidar you can draw that's a considerable difference.
Personally I think Nynaeve at full strength is likely as strong as Egwene combined with a weak sister, say Siuan or Daigian. Meaning Egwene would have to link with someone as strong as say a Verin or Alanna to have equal to Nynaeve's strength. However, because both Egwene and Nynaeve are so far above the normal AS this represents about a 20% increase from Egwene to Nynaeve.
On my scale Egwene is around an 80, Moghedien 85, Nynaeve 97, Lanfear 100. Moiraine would be a 50, Sheriam 45, Verin about a 30 and Daigian around 15...
This squares with the various quotes as long as you assume Egwene and Nynaeve are still growing as late as WH, neither would be stronger than 90% of their potential thus far so Alivia being considerably stronger than Nynaeve would be reasonable.
It's important to note that IMO a man who is equally effective to Egwene would be able to channel a significantly larger volume of saidin, just as Rand can probably channel a far larger quantity than Lanfear can, even though they are effectively equal in what they can accomplish.
One last note ... my intent with Shannow is not to be rude, but his consistent misquoting of the text is infuriating! you can't say "Egwene and Aviendha might be able to match Lanfear" when the quote reads they could overwhelm her. There is a significant difference in those two statements.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
31/05/2010 02:17:06 PM
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Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
31/05/2010 04:18:08 PM
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I don't know. Elayne knows how strong a woman needs to be in order to activate the Bowl.
31/05/2010 07:51:08 PM
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Egwene plus Aviendha roughly equal Lanfaer. And yet Lanfear isn't close to double Nynaeve's strength
31/05/2010 09:07:06 PM
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Egwene and Aviendha combined in TFoH (when Avi had been channeling for only a few months)
31/05/2010 09:22:17 PM
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We've done this so many times. Even I have lost the strength for it. What can I still muster...
31/05/2010 09:38:24 PM
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again with the interpretive quoting
31/05/2010 11:05:58 PM
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Individual interpretation is all we've got really
01/06/2010 06:32:05 PM
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agreed, sort of
04/06/2010 12:57:00 PM
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Consider this...
04/06/2010 01:21:43 PM
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You continue to translate things. That is NOT how the quote reads
04/06/2010 01:30:43 PM
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Not my fault if the books prove you wrong
04/06/2010 01:41:00 PM
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I'm denying that you have a clue
04/06/2010 01:51:14 PM
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Bonfire next to a candle. I rest my case.
04/06/2010 01:53:59 PM
- 442 Views
then Nynaeve is the Creator
04/06/2010 02:03:27 PM
- 555 Views
Estimating potential is exact, fragmentary historical notes are not. And RJ disproves your point..
04/06/2010 02:57:32 PM
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The books disagree with this
04/06/2010 03:24:46 PM
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Right, NOW we're getting somewhere...
04/06/2010 03:57:32 PM
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You are hilarious
04/06/2010 04:06:37 PM
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Close the door on your way out...
04/06/2010 04:21:11 PM
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no I just refuse to bother with a jackass who doesn't know the text well enough to debate *NM*
04/06/2010 10:35:09 PM
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Re: agreed, sort of
04/06/2010 04:46:59 PM
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this doesn't square in any way with Bell Curve though
04/06/2010 10:33:04 PM
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No, Rand was not stronger than the male Forsaken at the start of tSR...
01/06/2010 09:27:47 AM
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Aginor burned out attempting to use the Eye, which Rand managed to do without burning out *NM*
01/06/2010 12:06:01 PM
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The Eye was just a source of the Power - like a well, just bigger.
01/06/2010 12:17:29 PM
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nope
01/06/2010 12:52:46 PM
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Re: I don't know. Elayne knows how strong a woman needs to be in order to activate the Bowl.
01/06/2010 02:18:38 AM
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I'm not trying to say that Nynaeve isn't significantly stronger
01/06/2010 12:44:20 PM
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If 3 sisters can hold you, it probaly means you are as strong as 4 sisters...
01/06/2010 06:37:01 PM
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Re: I'm not trying to say that Nynaeve isn't significantly stronger
01/06/2010 06:43:08 PM
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Sidenote: What's with Elayne dumping people into the river?
31/05/2010 06:22:26 PM
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Not Elayne, Egwene in Cairhien. She went to meet the Windfinder and got kicked out. Wasn't awesome *NM*
31/05/2010 07:13:25 PM
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Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
31/05/2010 07:21:32 PM
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Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
31/05/2010 07:41:02 PM
- 502 Views
Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
01/06/2010 06:07:35 PM
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Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
01/06/2010 06:21:29 PM
- 451 Views
Remember gatways
31/05/2010 09:15:31 PM
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I agree that it's probably some kind of max height you can lift an object
31/05/2010 09:25:25 PM
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I think lifting people on flows of air is much like weaving bridges.
01/06/2010 07:42:59 AM
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I'm pretty convinced that 'strength' really refers to your skill and experience.
01/06/2010 08:35:16 PM
- 595 Views
Strength is a touchy word in this case...
03/06/2010 07:31:19 AM
- 574 Views