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I don't know if that's totally true darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 04/06/2010 12:09:29 PM
In every one of Sanderson's books that I've read (and I've read most of them), I've seen characters who are believable. Elantris, Mistborn, Warbreaker - they all had people who were complex and fully developed. Few characters were "static" or "two-dimensional"; they would act in ways that were unexpected yet entirely in keeping with who they were, intellectually and emotionally.

Jordan's characters, on the other hand, have largely been ersatz humans with two-dimensional personalities and little emotional, intellectual or spiritual growth. When they display emotion, it is often with stock phrases and cliches.

One of the very few instances in the entire series that has had any real depth has been Rand's "soul-searching" on Dragonmount at the end of The Gathering Storm. I'm not sure how much of that scene was Jordan and how much was Sanderson, but I'm willing to bet that it was more of the latter than the former. I never saw anything that real or immediate in Jordan's writing.

As for the other points, it's obvious Jordan's "Old Tongue" is a pile of crap, linguistically speaking. He would have been better not trying to write "in" it if he can't be like Tolkien. But he so desperately wanted to be like Tolkien.



Yeah, anyone whose read a little can immediately see that his characters are pretty shallow and undeveloped. If readers want to identify growth they have to pretty much imagine it for themselves. It's not unexpected really - he has over 1200 characters, and is undoubtedly one of the biggest and most detailed worldbuilders out there - though everything comes with a cost.

I'm halfway through another of Feist's books, and I think his characters are already more well developed spiritually than some of the main characters in WoT.


Certainly his minor characters are very shallow (there are like 1200 of them to your point).

But his main cast have all been developed quite thoroughly as the series has progressed.

Rand, Egwene, Mat, Nynaeve, Elayne have all changed pretty significantly over the course of the books and to a lesser extent Min, Aviendha and Perrin.

Mat probably the most dramatically, but Rand, Egwene and Nynaeve are all very different people from their EF days! In Mat's case he's like a totally different person! Even before he gains the 'Finn memories he's already shown the signs of being the heroic person he later fully embodies.

Certainly RJ kept to specific personality archetypes, as evidenced by the various similarities in women of the same Ajah or people of the same nationality (i.e. all Cairheinin are schemers), but he did have a growth trajectory for at least the main cast. Personally I've never thought this was a weakness in the writing, I find it quite thematically appropriate.

Note how people start changing in small ways once they are forced to communicate with outsiders? Red Ajah women like Silviana and Pevara start cropping up, Dobraine and Caraline show us that Cairheinin aren't all self-serving schemers etc. RJ did introduce change, just in a subtle way, using specific characters to change the archetype of a larger group.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Seanchan girls. Do they live in terror until 25? - 02/06/2010 12:32:14 AM 1494 Views
A few details to consider - 02/06/2010 01:11:12 AM 867 Views
Re: A few details to consider - 02/06/2010 02:31:08 AM 876 Views
Wasn't talking about breeding damane - 03/06/2010 03:32:44 AM 869 Views
Re: Wasn't talking about breeding damane - 04/06/2010 07:30:55 PM 736 Views
Well, it took centuries for most people to understand breeding/genetics - 02/06/2010 08:57:43 PM 711 Views
Nobody knows about Sul'dam because it takes them extra long to learn. - 03/06/2010 07:58:41 AM 1013 Views
Re: A few details to consider - 04/06/2010 07:33:39 AM 733 Views
I think it's seen as something that happens to other people. - 02/06/2010 02:20:09 AM 741 Views
I think they retest only the sul'dam - 02/06/2010 04:13:55 AM 912 Views
Re: I think they retest only the sul'dam - 04/06/2010 07:55:56 PM 704 Views
Point on the testing - 08/06/2010 02:15:26 AM 680 Views
Re: Point on the testing - 08/06/2010 02:46:06 PM 745 Views
Remember, Seancean have no idea channeling can be "learned" - 02/06/2010 07:04:11 AM 808 Views
This is how Damane and Sul'Dam are determined, straight from tGH - 03/06/2010 08:14:03 AM 1150 Views
That doesn't make sense. Are you sure they don't put the BRACELET on the girls, not the collar? - 04/06/2010 01:35:08 AM 698 Views
I am absolutely sure. Quote from book. - 04/06/2010 03:09:08 AM 769 Views
Re: I am absolutely sure. Quote from book. - 04/06/2010 11:54:25 AM 607 Views
Thanks Darius *NM* - 08/06/2010 01:48:28 AM 378 Views
Toun, though too young can be collared - 06/06/2010 03:29:29 AM 601 Views
I don't think Tuon will ever Channel - 06/06/2010 03:39:16 AM 750 Views
Everything points to a change in policy - 06/06/2010 04:04:33 AM 640 Views
Re: Everything points to a change in policy - 06/06/2010 04:18:21 AM 533 Views
Re: I don't think Tuon will ever Channel - 06/06/2010 05:07:40 AM 654 Views
Not at all - 02/06/2010 03:52:31 PM 619 Views
Re: Are the new damane actually tortured? - 02/06/2010 06:56:10 PM 774 Views
I think "tortured" is relative... - 03/06/2010 08:22:37 AM 710 Views
As with most things in Jordan's universe, I don't think it was thought through very seriously. - 03/06/2010 08:05:04 PM 655 Views
Huh? - 03/06/2010 08:44:35 PM 753 Views
Sure - 03/06/2010 09:00:40 PM 761 Views
Bah... - 03/06/2010 09:51:09 PM 710 Views
Jordan definitely made mistakes with the Ajahs. In particular, the Black Ajah ones who fled. - 03/06/2010 10:56:39 PM 700 Views
oh come now - 04/06/2010 12:58:44 AM 623 Views
Re: Sure - 04/06/2010 04:55:23 AM 801 Views
I don't know if that's totally true - 04/06/2010 12:09:29 PM 630 Views
Maybe you don't read that much serious literature? I just don't see why you are arguing this. - 04/06/2010 03:47:50 PM 665 Views
I actually don't read much fiction at all to be honest - 04/06/2010 04:00:03 PM 686 Views
You're right about the fact that I have mostly contempt for Jordan. - 04/06/2010 05:42:49 PM 652 Views
meh. I prefer non-fiction most of the time - 06/06/2010 03:44:38 AM 703 Views
I have read lots of fiction - 06/06/2010 03:57:07 AM 695 Views
Meh - 04/06/2010 05:03:41 PM 685 Views
LOL ... I hear ya on that - 06/06/2010 03:49:48 AM 688 Views
We've seen so little of the old tongue how can you tell? - 06/06/2010 03:33:46 AM 547 Views
This raises another question - 06/06/2010 04:13:25 AM 611 Views
Re: This raises another question - 06/06/2010 04:53:42 AM 660 Views

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