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Re: Great post, but I would disagree with the top part DomA Send a noteboard - 03/06/2010 04:27:28 AM

But men like Rhuarc, Tam, Bashere are all much more accomplished men than Rand.

Rand has already accomplished more in his life than most men have accomplished in dozens of lives. Rand and his ta'veren effect



He's a more than decent fighter - excellent if too impulsive by far, there's no denying that. For the rest... being pushed at the right place at the right time by the Wheel isn't being great, or "accomplishements".

Rand is Rand, and his ta'veren effect is the Wheel pulling him. LTT's memories are LTT's - a massive advantage for Rand, but no accomplishement of his. There's nothing great in the fact vital knowledge from LTT comes to save his butt when he's put himself in a pickle either.

What happens because he is ta'veren doesn't make him a great man. It has saved his butt countless times, when his plans were rash and badly thought out, when he made stupid or immature decisions, usually more out of inexperience and a refusal to listen to advice than by any lack of intelligence. When his luck ran out and we he acted on his own impulses, Rand has gotten himself into massive troubles very often: his great plan to manipulate the two factions of AS ended with him a prisoner. The one time he decided to "be clever" and stupidly tried to control his ta'veren effect, he nearly got killed by Fain. He didn't think things through with Rahvin, and he's been terribly lucky not to lose Mat, Aviendha and his teacher... and that Nynaeve distracted Rahvin at the right moment. His rash decisions in Far Madding landed him captured. If not for Cadsuane, as soon as the Shadow learned that, Rand was a sitting duck for Slayer. His plan for the Seanchan lost him his hand, his plans for the BT resulted in training Darkfriends right under his nose, he nearly unravelled the Pattern to get rid of Graendal, his plans for Sammael nearly ended in total disaster (what Bashere and Mat designed worked as planned, but Rand's part of the plan went badly and it's only thanks to Moridin Rand didn't end up dead) and so on, and so on.

Rand's path is a string of disasters and barely avoided disasters and a few miraculous, most often "Wheel-pulled" successes.

One of Rand's main problems is also that so far he's been a terrible, terrible leader, and he hates listening to advice. By TGS, he's managed to antagonize pretty much all of his allies. The Aiel are turning against him, he's antagonized Logain, Cadsuane and Nynaeve and the AS following him, he's developped an hatred of Egwene and the White Tower out of the blue because Egwene has not seen fit to fall on her knees before him (whereas AS Rand approves of flatter him beyond measure... and turn out to be BA, like Elza and Alviarin), the Tairens and Cairhienins obey him out of fear more than anything.... He let his temper get the better of him and antagonized the Borderlands rulers at a time he couldn't afford to, failed with the Seanchan, abandonned Arad Doman in a state much worse than when he arrived...

Rand sure has the potential to turn all this around and become a great man - he's a great kid caught in impossible situations and yes, he may be doing better than most kids would do in his place - but at the moment he has still a lot of crumbs to eat to become "a great man".

"so there is no way that his mixed gender circle would have been considered 'pathetic by AOL standards.'"

Of course it would have been considered "pathetic", or rather most AS would have soiled their pants at the idea that a newbie at linking would attempt something like this.

Read the scene again. Rand was completely on his own because LTT refused to participate, and Rand came close to bungling it all up for complete lack of experience handling saidar in a mixed gender circle, while Nynaeve barely knew more than how to link. That he waited until the time of the deed to link for the first time, with zero practice beforehand with Nynaeve is typical Rand, and typical rash adolescent behaviour. Rand did not "acccomplish" so much as he managed to get to the end of what he began, and survive - a near miracle. Sure, it was daring and courageous, but that's more immature blindness to danger and the adolescent feeling nothing can happen to him than real, rational courage. Beside, let's not forget Rand planned the Cleansing because of his own big miscalculations about the Asha'man.


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Matching the Dragon with a mate - 02/06/2010 10:09:49 AM 1456 Views
I think there is more to these women than simply being the Dragon's Mate - 02/06/2010 12:09:10 PM 788 Views
I agree with darius. Also, 2/3rds of Rand's women - 02/06/2010 02:38:13 PM 747 Views
What more IS there to being a woman? - 02/06/2010 03:52:23 PM 846 Views
Re: What more IS there to being a woman? - 02/06/2010 04:58:36 PM 698 Views
Re: What more IS there to being a woman? - 03/06/2010 08:51:25 AM 639 Views
riiiight - 03/06/2010 11:20:31 AM 562 Views
Re: riiiight - 03/06/2010 01:53:49 PM 683 Views
the problem with your working out how strong they are is that it always begins with how much - 03/06/2010 02:14:08 PM 704 Views
Re: the problem with your working out how strong they are is that it always begins with how much - 03/06/2010 02:23:32 PM 773 Views
Oh Sid! - 03/06/2010 02:53:48 PM 652 Views
Re: Oh Sid! - 04/06/2010 04:58:13 AM 540 Views
Like who - 01/07/2010 12:40:14 PM 586 Views
Ditto - 04/06/2010 04:41:15 PM 724 Views
Re: Ditto - 04/06/2010 04:56:45 PM 1015 Views
I never said that's all they were - 03/06/2010 08:49:53 AM 666 Views
Re: I never said that's all they were - 03/06/2010 11:44:51 AM 699 Views
Re: I never said that's all they were - 03/06/2010 02:04:29 PM 644 Views
totally disagree! - 03/06/2010 02:50:58 PM 751 Views
Yeah Nynaeve is fantastic - 02/06/2010 12:48:56 PM 714 Views
oh dear god no - 02/06/2010 02:41:13 PM 675 Views
Re: oh dear god no - 02/06/2010 02:55:55 PM 748 Views
Re: Yeah Nynaeve is fantastic - 03/06/2010 08:51:52 AM 621 Views
Re: Matching the Dragon with a mate - 02/06/2010 02:15:35 PM 885 Views
*NM* - 02/06/2010 03:54:04 PM 288 Views
beautiful post!!!!!! *NM* - 02/06/2010 04:03:55 PM 429 Views
Great post, but I would disagree with the top part - 02/06/2010 05:58:59 PM 748 Views
Re: Great post, but I would disagree with the top part - 03/06/2010 04:27:28 AM 743 Views
The pattern makes Rand the greatest man alive *NM* - 03/06/2010 10:35:05 AM 277 Views
Regarding the number of Darkfriends - 02/06/2010 07:06:08 PM 781 Views
Re: Regarding the number of Darkfriends - 03/06/2010 04:34:54 AM 650 Views
Re: Matching the Dragon with a mate - 03/06/2010 09:27:05 AM 755 Views
LOL - 03/06/2010 12:01:27 PM 615 Views
Re: LOL - 03/06/2010 12:41:20 PM 619 Views
Excellent point! - 03/06/2010 12:50:03 PM 641 Views
Re: Excellent point! - 03/06/2010 01:34:04 PM 834 Views
Re: Excellent point! - 03/06/2010 02:05:19 PM 733 Views
We don't even know how third names were earned - 03/06/2010 02:31:46 PM 697 Views
The point isn't her strength or beauty - 03/06/2010 03:01:03 PM 722 Views
Yeah, if only it was accurate - 03/06/2010 01:51:48 PM 793 Views
Re: Yeah, if only it was accurate - 03/06/2010 03:13:05 PM 775 Views
Re: Matching the Dragon with a mate - 03/06/2010 01:18:14 PM 787 Views
Re: Matching the Dragon with a mate - 03/06/2010 02:20:05 PM 708 Views
Reasonable scientific venture - 01/07/2010 10:23:06 AM 819 Views
I think there is more to these characters than being a mate, and I don't think the Pattern cares. - 02/06/2010 03:23:13 PM 684 Views
Hmm... - 03/06/2010 09:28:55 AM 659 Views
Because the variables we see are rarely as specific. - 03/06/2010 03:18:16 PM 620 Views
I doubt he needs one. They just get in the way. - 02/06/2010 05:14:08 PM 848 Views
Re: I doubt he needs one. They just get in the way. - 02/06/2010 08:30:32 PM 649 Views
- 02/06/2010 10:42:17 PM 636 Views
Meh. How do we know they aren't awarded the way the Nobel Peace Prize is in our world? - 02/06/2010 11:33:48 PM 672 Views
I don't know if Lanfear, the perfect woman didn't have a 3rd name it must have been - 02/06/2010 11:49:02 PM 587 Views
Lews Therin browbeat the Third Name Committee! - 03/06/2010 07:48:41 AM 586 Views
LOL *NM* - 03/06/2010 12:03:07 PM 364 Views
LOL They called it "Tamyrlin-Gate" =) *NM* - 04/06/2010 09:48:28 PM 258 Views

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