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Re: A few details to consider Datakim Send a noteboard - 02/06/2010 02:31:08 AM
Overall, I would agree that, whether or not RJ wrote this into the culture, I would imagine that testing there is a traumatizing effect on children. Not just girls--boys are tested too, except that male channelers are killed, IIRC. And men tend to exhibit the spark later than women, so their terror could potentially last a lot longer.


Are you sure men are tested? I got the impression that they are not, but that the sul'dam simply hunt any that appear down and kill them. I know that contact with the a'dam kills men, but does it not also kill the sul'dam.

There was that mention of the empress putting the bracelet on men for amusement and sometimes (if the man was a channeler) both the man and the damane died in horrible agony. The a'dam is designed only for women. Until the male a'dam, testing men was not really an option.


So, there are a couple of things to consider, although there are a lot of details we can't be sure of. First, channeling is a rare talent. So, most girls will not be collared. It's a genetic lottery, and given that channelers never marry or have children, the genetic tendencies are rare.


Aes Sedai never marry or have children, the same is not true for all channelers. Damane presumably don't, since sex with them is viewed as perverted, but we don't know about the sul'dam. It is possible that sul'dam have children and families and maintain the "channeling gene". Male learners also probably do, to some extent atleast

As for the rarity, you are right. But how rare? Rare enough that a few damane are found in a city/town every generation keeping the fear alive? Or so rarely that no one really worries much about it beyond perhaps a slight anxiety?


Are there no farmers in Seanchan? Does no one understand breeding?


When Mat visited a collared AS, Tuon implied that some men try to sneak in and have sex with the collared damane, but this is viewed as very sick behaviour (beyond even the rape factor). I guess since they view the damane as basically animals, they think sex or "breeding" would be viewed as bestiality or something. The society values simply prevent this. And ofcourse you obviously cannot breed two female damane, and they have no collared male channelers.


The fact that Egwene figures out that sul'dam can be collared, and yet NO Seanchan person in the culture itself has figured this out is frankly amazing. It defies belief, but RJ seems to suggest it is so. These folks really are brainwashed by their society into not thinking certain things. It's actually incredible that they've managed to maintain an empire for so long and conquer so much of Randland so successfully, given that they have been trained from birth by their culture to be so blinkered about what is staring them in the face. Tuon, who despite being rather xenophobic and superstitious, is actually pretty sharp, and yet even she hardly blinks an eye when finding out her culture is built on such extraordinary misdirection.


Yeah they are brainwashed. Any sul'dam that was caught was likely just thought to have found a way to cheat the original testing or such. Remember that their society depends greatly on the damane system, they would WANT to believe that its right and proper. If you want to believe something bad enough, you will simply ignore evidence to the contrary.


Perhaps the super-secret-society of Seanchan High Elders knows this, and would have informed Tuon when she became empress, had she not already known.


Maybe.


Anyway, back to your question. In sum, seeing as Aes Sedai rarely marry or have children, and have been 'culling' male channelers as well, and seeing as this has led to a decrease in the number of channelers, it stands to reason that channeling ability is rare in Seanchan as well. Only about 1 in 1000 is collared, and the chances go down from there after age 20, even if they don't let up until 25. The marriage issue is a good one--I wouldn't put it past Seanchan culture to kill the babies of women who later find out they can channel, or else turn them into da'covale for life.


Actually, I think the culling effect is far less significant than was first suggested in the series. The reason the AS numbers were dropping so badly is because they were idiots and did not actually recruit people properly. The other groups that do test everyone such as the Aiel WO have plenty of channelers.
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Seanchan girls. Do they live in terror until 25? - 02/06/2010 12:32:14 AM 1407 Views
A few details to consider - 02/06/2010 01:11:12 AM 795 Views
Re: A few details to consider - 02/06/2010 02:31:08 AM 805 Views
Wasn't talking about breeding damane - 03/06/2010 03:32:44 AM 800 Views
Re: Wasn't talking about breeding damane - 04/06/2010 07:30:55 PM 661 Views
Well, it took centuries for most people to understand breeding/genetics - 02/06/2010 08:57:43 PM 625 Views
Nobody knows about Sul'dam because it takes them extra long to learn. - 03/06/2010 07:58:41 AM 925 Views
Re: A few details to consider - 04/06/2010 07:33:39 AM 656 Views
I think it's seen as something that happens to other people. - 02/06/2010 02:20:09 AM 666 Views
I think they retest only the sul'dam - 02/06/2010 04:13:55 AM 835 Views
Re: I think they retest only the sul'dam - 04/06/2010 07:55:56 PM 631 Views
Point on the testing - 08/06/2010 02:15:26 AM 602 Views
Re: Point on the testing - 08/06/2010 02:46:06 PM 671 Views
Remember, Seancean have no idea channeling can be "learned" - 02/06/2010 07:04:11 AM 726 Views
This is how Damane and Sul'Dam are determined, straight from tGH - 03/06/2010 08:14:03 AM 1028 Views
That doesn't make sense. Are you sure they don't put the BRACELET on the girls, not the collar? - 04/06/2010 01:35:08 AM 621 Views
I am absolutely sure. Quote from book. - 04/06/2010 03:09:08 AM 688 Views
Re: I am absolutely sure. Quote from book. - 04/06/2010 11:54:25 AM 568 Views
Thanks Darius *NM* - 08/06/2010 01:48:28 AM 345 Views
Toun, though too young can be collared - 06/06/2010 03:29:29 AM 555 Views
I don't think Tuon will ever Channel - 06/06/2010 03:39:16 AM 661 Views
Everything points to a change in policy - 06/06/2010 04:04:33 AM 573 Views
Re: Everything points to a change in policy - 06/06/2010 04:18:21 AM 466 Views
Re: I don't think Tuon will ever Channel - 06/06/2010 05:07:40 AM 578 Views
Not at all - 02/06/2010 03:52:31 PM 550 Views
Re: Are the new damane actually tortured? - 02/06/2010 06:56:10 PM 696 Views
I think "tortured" is relative... - 03/06/2010 08:22:37 AM 639 Views
As with most things in Jordan's universe, I don't think it was thought through very seriously. - 03/06/2010 08:05:04 PM 578 Views
Huh? - 03/06/2010 08:44:35 PM 672 Views
Sure - 03/06/2010 09:00:40 PM 675 Views
Bah... - 03/06/2010 09:51:09 PM 639 Views
Jordan definitely made mistakes with the Ajahs. In particular, the Black Ajah ones who fled. - 03/06/2010 10:56:39 PM 629 Views
oh come now - 04/06/2010 12:58:44 AM 554 Views
Re: Sure - 04/06/2010 04:55:23 AM 715 Views
I don't know if that's totally true - 04/06/2010 12:09:29 PM 556 Views
Maybe you don't read that much serious literature? I just don't see why you are arguing this. - 04/06/2010 03:47:50 PM 582 Views
I actually don't read much fiction at all to be honest - 04/06/2010 04:00:03 PM 606 Views
You're right about the fact that I have mostly contempt for Jordan. - 04/06/2010 05:42:49 PM 584 Views
meh. I prefer non-fiction most of the time - 06/06/2010 03:44:38 AM 622 Views
I have read lots of fiction - 06/06/2010 03:57:07 AM 613 Views
Meh - 04/06/2010 05:03:41 PM 599 Views
LOL ... I hear ya on that - 06/06/2010 03:49:48 AM 617 Views
We've seen so little of the old tongue how can you tell? - 06/06/2010 03:33:46 AM 479 Views
This raises another question - 06/06/2010 04:13:25 AM 539 Views
Re: This raises another question - 06/06/2010 04:53:42 AM 596 Views

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