Active Users:331 Time:25/04/2025 02:08:33 PM
Re: I don't know. Elayne knows how strong a woman needs to be in order to activate the Bowl. DomA Send a noteboard - 01/06/2010 02:18:38 AM
She mentions it more than once.


You're not logical there. What do you think she'd know best: how strong someone has to be to operate the Bowl or how strong Nynaeve is? Why would she wonder if maybe Nynaeve could operate it on her own unless she wasn't more than guessing how strong exactly the operator needed to be? She certainly wasn't guessing about Nynaeve's strength...

Elayne couldn't do more than move the clouds a bit the only time she's tried the Bowl because she didn't know how it worked. The Windfinders did.

She probably wasn't strong enough either to operate it on her own, but that's a bit beside the point.

Nynaeve is significantly stronger than Elayne. It's perfectly well established, I'm not sure why you're making an issue out of it again. I get the idea of shifting away from the Asmodean issue, but you've picked another dead horse...

Brandon wasn't confused about Nyaneve (he was about Cyndane). On the older list that didn't yet include Sharina, Alivia etc., Brandon said Nynaeve stood alone at the top, significantly higher than Elayne and Egwene.

As for Nynaeve and her Well. She states quite clearly that the Well contains enough Saidar to lift both Rand and Lan up, but not quite enough to bring them back down. There is no reason to believe that she can't channel to her fullest (at the time) as in TGS she tells us flat out that the Guardians did not muck with her ability to channel, once she had the Power in her.


Again, there's two logical flaws in your reasonning:

1) You are assuming that Nynaeve would use her full strength to lift Rand and Lan? Why assume this? We don't know the size of her well - it may not even be big enough to handle her full strength. There was saidar enough in it to weave air to lift the pair, but not enough to do it twice, to bring them down. What does this tell us about Nynaeve's strength or the weight she can lift? Not much at all! Her limit is somewhere beyond Lan and Rand, but we have no idea what it is. As I said earlier, the well makes the scene impossible to use for that kind of comparisons. You're also forgetting about Nynaeve's sskill in handling Air vs. Egwene's and Elayne's (with the Windfinder, Elayne has trained to handle huge quantity of Air). There's more about lifting stuff than just raw strength. There's aptitude for Air too.

2) In TGS Nynaeve wasn't commenting about her strength, she was commenting about the fact the Guardian doesn't interfere in any way with weaving the Power. It blocks the Source and a gizmo can triangulate the location of someone who channels, that's all. Standing outside the perimeter with the CK, Rand could have balefired Far Madding any time. It's implied by Cadsuane (or Verin?) Raolin Darksbane used the OP against the city from outside the perimeter once.

I'm not familiar with the Brandon quote, but I would still question it since he wasn't even certain of Cyndane's strength until Maria corrected him. I'd also say that a 15-20% increase over Egwene/Elayne would qualify as "significant". If she was much more than that above them the various achievements don't really fit.


Their achievements had not much if anything to do with strength, beyond the fact they were strong enough to make those weaves... Many much weaker AS can too. Some Yellows much weaker than Nynaeve can do her healing too.

Very weak AS could make amazing discoveries. A lot of weaves aren't about strength but finesse and dexterity, or special skills. Leane was the second best after Egwene at making Cuendillar, and she's quite weak.

Their discoveries (not the Moghedien ones) have to do with skill/Talent, intelligence/creativity and the fact the "dangers of trying out stuff" has not been indoctrinated into them yet when they left the Tower. Another factor is that Moghedien showed them a hint of a much vaster world of channelling waiting to be rediscovered, and this stimulated them.

If you take the comparison to height (as Nynaeve does in TGS). Egwene would be 2x taller than a tall AS (let's say Merise) ... for ease let's say that makes her 12 feet tall (to Merise's 6). if Nynaeve is 20% taller that would make her 14'5" tall!


I'm not sure what you're talking about. Height? Why height? Theories about height vs. strength don't really work. It appears to be a coincidence that Rand and Lanfear are so tall.

Sammael was quite strong in the power, and yet he was really short.

Alivia is very strong for a woman yet short (barely taller than Nynaeve). Nynaeve is quite short. Moiraine used to be one of the strongest Aes Sedai, yet unless there's dwarf AS, she was probably one of the smallest sisters alive. Leane and Siuan's strengths were comparable, yet Leane is much taller.

Both Aliva and Nynaeve stand at the base of the top tier of AOL channellers (at least if the legend that the 13 surviving Forsaken were among the strongest people of their Age is more than a legend). They're not quite Mierins, but they're way above the median.

The Namelles were very tall, yet quite weak.

Balthamel went from a tall/muscled male body to a much frailer female body and can still channel the same volume of saidin...

Cyndane is short, yet still formidably strong for a woman.

There's no apparent corrolation between physical body and OP strength.
Reply to message
Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha - 31/05/2010 02:17:06 PM 1214 Views
Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha - 31/05/2010 04:18:08 PM 799 Views
I don't know. Elayne knows how strong a woman needs to be in order to activate the Bowl. - 31/05/2010 07:51:08 PM 681 Views
Egwene plus Aviendha roughly equal Lanfaer. And yet Lanfear isn't close to double Nynaeve's strength - 31/05/2010 09:07:06 PM 580 Views
Egwene and Aviendha combined in TFoH (when Avi had been channeling for only a few months) - 31/05/2010 09:22:17 PM 695 Views
We've done this so many times. Even I have lost the strength for it. What can I still muster... - 31/05/2010 09:38:24 PM 637 Views
again with the interpretive quoting - 31/05/2010 11:05:58 PM 675 Views
Individual interpretation is all we've got really - 01/06/2010 06:32:05 PM 618 Views
agreed, sort of - 04/06/2010 12:57:00 PM 623 Views
Consider this... - 04/06/2010 01:21:43 PM 597 Views
You continue to translate things. That is NOT how the quote reads - 04/06/2010 01:30:43 PM 390 Views
Not my fault if the books prove you wrong - 04/06/2010 01:41:00 PM 521 Views
I'm denying that you have a clue - 04/06/2010 01:51:14 PM 565 Views
Bonfire next to a candle. I rest my case. - 04/06/2010 01:53:59 PM 442 Views
then Nynaeve is the Creator - 04/06/2010 02:03:27 PM 556 Views
Estimating potential is exact, fragmentary historical notes are not. And RJ disproves your point.. - 04/06/2010 02:57:32 PM 656 Views
The books disagree with this - 04/06/2010 03:24:46 PM 488 Views
Right, NOW we're getting somewhere... - 04/06/2010 03:57:32 PM 602 Views
You are hilarious - 04/06/2010 04:06:37 PM 400 Views
Close the door on your way out... - 04/06/2010 04:21:11 PM 435 Views
Re: agreed, sort of - 04/06/2010 04:46:59 PM 1285 Views
Reminds me of some of our ancient debates... - 04/06/2010 05:03:05 PM 535 Views
this doesn't square in any way with Bell Curve though - 04/06/2010 10:33:04 PM 650 Views
Re: this doesn't square in any way with Bell Curve though - 04/06/2010 10:56:01 PM 546 Views
It's all good, I do respect your thoughts on this BTW - 04/06/2010 11:28:45 PM 501 Views
No, Rand was not stronger than the male Forsaken at the start of tSR... - 01/06/2010 09:27:47 AM 538 Views
Aginor burned out attempting to use the Eye, which Rand managed to do without burning out *NM* - 01/06/2010 12:06:01 PM 299 Views
The Eye was just a source of the Power - like a well, just bigger. - 01/06/2010 12:17:29 PM 562 Views
nope - 01/06/2010 12:52:46 PM 569 Views
You know that is not correct... - 01/06/2010 01:30:35 PM 598 Views
right or wrong it's in the text! - 01/06/2010 01:47:35 PM 673 Views
Re: I don't know. Elayne knows how strong a woman needs to be in order to activate the Bowl. - 01/06/2010 02:18:38 AM 658 Views
I'm not trying to say that Nynaeve isn't significantly stronger - 01/06/2010 12:44:20 PM 711 Views
Re: I'm not trying to say that Nynaeve isn't significantly stronger - 01/06/2010 06:43:08 PM 468 Views
Remember gatways - 31/05/2010 09:15:31 PM 505 Views
I agree that it's probably some kind of max height you can lift an object - 31/05/2010 09:25:25 PM 484 Views
I think lifting people on flows of air is much like weaving bridges. - 01/06/2010 07:42:59 AM 645 Views
I think you are correct actually. - 01/06/2010 12:53:21 PM 681 Views
Yes. - 01/06/2010 08:43:33 PM 430 Views
My own thougth was off base! - 01/06/2010 12:54:19 PM 506 Views
I'm pretty convinced that 'strength' really refers to your skill and experience. - 01/06/2010 08:35:16 PM 596 Views
Strength is a touchy word in this case... - 03/06/2010 07:31:19 AM 574 Views
Re: Strength is a touchy word in this case... - 04/06/2010 04:52:33 PM 411 Views
I see effectiveness much the same - 05/06/2010 05:17:57 PM 720 Views

Reply to Message