I don't know. Elayne knows how strong a woman needs to be in order to activate the Bowl.
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 31/05/2010 07:51:08 PM
I see a few flaws in your interpretations:
Elayne isn't even close to being able to use the Bowl on her own (at least, not for what they intended to do with it - the ter'angreal was actually designed to control the weather in much, much smaller areas).
She doesn't really know how strong a woman has to be to make the bowl work, she's guessing. Part of her problem was that she didn't have the skills to operate it properly...
Herself isn't quite strong enough (she thinks), so forcibly all the Salidar women aren't. She wonders if Nynaeve, who is significantly stronger than Elayne and Egwene (this was confirmed by Brandon, by the way), might be strong enough.
Elayne is merely guessing at the strength needed to power the Bowl (and as it turns out, they will overpower it and overwork the ter'angreal, making the OP "weird" in the south for a while. The Bowl didn't need that much OP to work, it wasn't designed to create so global an effect on the weather)
Let's assume this is very close for Nynaeve since she has to give it some thought before she says she can't do it... so perhaps Nynaeve's maximum is between 480-500lbs.
The whole episode is very unreliable for comparison, as Nynaeve didn't have access to her full strength. She had access to a limited quantity of saidar from a well, not renewable. She wasn't guessing if she could lift that weight in th absolute, she was guessing if she had enough saidar in her well to do it, keeping enough for the rest of possible emergencies. She had to ponder that decision well. If she tried and miscalculated, she emptied her well... That's why she hesitated and finally judged this wouldn't work. I'd assume she has a good idea already how much she can lift when she has her full strength. In Far Madding, she had to re adjust herself, because Nynaeve isn't used to work under limitations of strength. She has more than enough strength to do pretty much all she has tried to do.
"But I’m not quite strong enough to work it by myself."
Elayne isn't even close to being able to use the Bowl on her own (at least, not for what they intended to do with it - the ter'angreal was actually designed to control the weather in much, much smaller areas).
She doesn't really know how strong a woman has to be to make the bowl work, she's guessing. Part of her problem was that she didn't have the skills to operate it properly...
Herself isn't quite strong enough (she thinks), so forcibly all the Salidar women aren't. She wonders if Nynaeve, who is significantly stronger than Elayne and Egwene (this was confirmed by Brandon, by the way), might be strong enough.
Elayne is merely guessing at the strength needed to power the Bowl (and as it turns out, they will overpower it and overwork the ter'angreal, making the OP "weird" in the south for a while. The Bowl didn't need that much OP to work, it wasn't designed to create so global an effect on the weather)
Let's assume this is very close for Nynaeve since she has to give it some thought before she says she can't do it... so perhaps Nynaeve's maximum is between 480-500lbs.
The whole episode is very unreliable for comparison, as Nynaeve didn't have access to her full strength. She had access to a limited quantity of saidar from a well, not renewable. She wasn't guessing if she could lift that weight in th absolute, she was guessing if she had enough saidar in her well to do it, keeping enough for the rest of possible emergencies. She had to ponder that decision well. If she tried and miscalculated, she emptied her well... That's why she hesitated and finally judged this wouldn't work. I'd assume she has a good idea already how much she can lift when she has her full strength. In Far Madding, she had to re adjust herself, because Nynaeve isn't used to work under limitations of strength. She has more than enough strength to do pretty much all she has tried to do.
She mentions it more than once. Clearly they needed more strength to affect the larger area they were attempting, thus the large circle and all the angreal involved.
As for Nynaeve and her Well. She states quite clearly that the Well contains enough Saidar to lift both Rand and Lan up, but not quite enough to bring them back down. There is no reason to believe that she can't channel to her fullest (at the time) as in TGS she tells us flat out that the Guardians did not muck with her ability to channel, once she had the Power in her.
I'm not familiar with the Brandon quote, but I would still question it since he wasn't even certain of Cyndane's strength until Maria corrected him. I'd also say that a 15-20% increase over Egwene/Elayne would qualify as "significant". If she was much more than that above them the various achievements don't really fit.
If you take the comparison to height (as Nynaeve does in TGS). Egwene would be 2x taller than a tall AS (let's say Merise) ... for ease let's say that makes her 12 feet tall (to Merise's 6). if Nynaeve is 20% taller that would make her 14'5" tall! nearly 2 and a half feet taller than Egwene ... seems pretty significant to me. What it gets down to is that Elayne is much closer to Nynaeve's strength than she is to Moiraine's strength.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
31/05/2010 02:17:06 PM
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Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
31/05/2010 04:18:08 PM
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I don't know. Elayne knows how strong a woman needs to be in order to activate the Bowl.
31/05/2010 07:51:08 PM
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Egwene plus Aviendha roughly equal Lanfaer. And yet Lanfear isn't close to double Nynaeve's strength
31/05/2010 09:07:06 PM
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Egwene and Aviendha combined in TFoH (when Avi had been channeling for only a few months)
31/05/2010 09:22:17 PM
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We've done this so many times. Even I have lost the strength for it. What can I still muster...
31/05/2010 09:38:24 PM
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again with the interpretive quoting
31/05/2010 11:05:58 PM
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Individual interpretation is all we've got really
01/06/2010 06:32:05 PM
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agreed, sort of
04/06/2010 12:57:00 PM
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Consider this...
04/06/2010 01:21:43 PM
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You continue to translate things. That is NOT how the quote reads
04/06/2010 01:30:43 PM
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Not my fault if the books prove you wrong
04/06/2010 01:41:00 PM
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I'm denying that you have a clue
04/06/2010 01:51:14 PM
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Bonfire next to a candle. I rest my case.
04/06/2010 01:53:59 PM
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then Nynaeve is the Creator
04/06/2010 02:03:27 PM
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Estimating potential is exact, fragmentary historical notes are not. And RJ disproves your point..
04/06/2010 02:57:32 PM
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The books disagree with this
04/06/2010 03:24:46 PM
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Right, NOW we're getting somewhere...
04/06/2010 03:57:32 PM
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You are hilarious
04/06/2010 04:06:37 PM
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Close the door on your way out...
04/06/2010 04:21:11 PM
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no I just refuse to bother with a jackass who doesn't know the text well enough to debate *NM*
04/06/2010 10:35:09 PM
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Re: agreed, sort of
04/06/2010 04:46:59 PM
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this doesn't square in any way with Bell Curve though
04/06/2010 10:33:04 PM
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No, Rand was not stronger than the male Forsaken at the start of tSR...
01/06/2010 09:27:47 AM
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Aginor burned out attempting to use the Eye, which Rand managed to do without burning out *NM*
01/06/2010 12:06:01 PM
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The Eye was just a source of the Power - like a well, just bigger.
01/06/2010 12:17:29 PM
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nope
01/06/2010 12:52:46 PM
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Re: I don't know. Elayne knows how strong a woman needs to be in order to activate the Bowl.
01/06/2010 02:18:38 AM
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I'm not trying to say that Nynaeve isn't significantly stronger
01/06/2010 12:44:20 PM
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If 3 sisters can hold you, it probaly means you are as strong as 4 sisters...
01/06/2010 06:37:01 PM
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Re: I'm not trying to say that Nynaeve isn't significantly stronger
01/06/2010 06:43:08 PM
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Sidenote: What's with Elayne dumping people into the river?
31/05/2010 06:22:26 PM
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Not Elayne, Egwene in Cairhien. She went to meet the Windfinder and got kicked out. Wasn't awesome *NM*
31/05/2010 07:13:25 PM
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Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
31/05/2010 07:21:32 PM
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Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
31/05/2010 07:41:02 PM
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Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
01/06/2010 06:07:35 PM
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Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
01/06/2010 06:21:29 PM
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Remember gatways
31/05/2010 09:15:31 PM
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I agree that it's probably some kind of max height you can lift an object
31/05/2010 09:25:25 PM
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I think lifting people on flows of air is much like weaving bridges.
01/06/2010 07:42:59 AM
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I'm pretty convinced that 'strength' really refers to your skill and experience.
01/06/2010 08:35:16 PM
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Strength is a touchy word in this case...
03/06/2010 07:31:19 AM
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