Compilation of the clues I could find on Slayer and Graendal
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 29/05/2010 04:26:58 PM
Okay I went through the first 7 books looking for any information that might lead us to the killer ... obviously nothing definitive here, but thought it was worthwhile on a dull Saturday morning...
EoTW clues:
Slayer
Isam and Luc’s childhood stories told briefly
Graendal
Hints that the Forsaken are loose but no mention
TGH
Slayer
Shadow Prophesy alluding to Isam and Luc merging into 1 being
Graendal
More hints about the Forsaken being free but nothing specific
TDR
Slayer
No mention
Graendal
No mention
TSR
Slayer
First mention of the name Slayer
We learn from the Wolves that he can enter TAR in the Flesh (by unknown means), and that he kills wolves forever when there
We learn that Lord Luc and Isam are both in the TR and learn that they are one and the same, or at least can infer from the various big hints
We know that the Myrddraal fear being found by Isam
We learn/see that at least Lord Luc is great fighter, he's been killing Myrddraal all over the TR
We learn that Fain thinks Isam is a "problem for another time"
Graendal
First onscreen mention
We learn she takes “trophies”
Misc
We learn Balefire can destroy the Forsaken
We learn that the Forsaken are not all a united front, and that even amongst the BA there are different orders being given
TFoH
Slayer
No Mention, probably off convalescing from his wounds given by Perrin in TSR
Graendal
First on screen appearance
We learn about her Slaves (Power and Beauty and the heavy use of Compulsion)
We learn that she finds it odd that the Forsaken aren’t actively trying to kill each other
We learn she thinks she is above mere humans
Graendal is aggressive enough to challenge Lanfear in front of other Forsaken and would likely use Balefire in such a fight
We learned that she had carved out a power base and would protect it rather than sitting around plotting against Rand
We learn that Asmodean knew she was in Arad Domon
We learn she pokes around in TAR, spying on the other Forsaken
We know she is aware that Asmodean is teaching Rand and that she is part of the plot to kill/control Rand that Lanfear, Sammael and Rhavin are all part of as well
LoC
Slayer
No mention
Graendal
We learn she remains in cahoots with Sammael and is giving him information on the other FS
We learn that she tends to hide things in plain sight
We learn she already knows of Lanfear and Rahvin’s deaths, and assumes Moghedien and Asmodean are also dead at Rands hands
We learn that Sammael did NOT know that Asmodean was dead
We learn that Graendal is willing to go to great lengths (go to Sharra and steal the rulers) to achieve even small goals
We learn that she hates being threatened in anyway
We learn she is frightened of Rand and will go to great lengths to avoid his detection
We learn that she was a master of mindgames and also some sort of Psychiatrist in the AoL
Misc
The DO already also knew of Asmo’s death
PoD
We learn Graendal looted Sammaels rooms in Ilian
EoTW clues:
Slayer
Isam and Luc’s childhood stories told briefly
Graendal
Hints that the Forsaken are loose but no mention
TGH
Slayer
Shadow Prophesy alluding to Isam and Luc merging into 1 being
Graendal
More hints about the Forsaken being free but nothing specific
TDR
Slayer
No mention
Graendal
No mention
TSR
Slayer
First mention of the name Slayer
We learn from the Wolves that he can enter TAR in the Flesh (by unknown means), and that he kills wolves forever when there
We learn that Lord Luc and Isam are both in the TR and learn that they are one and the same, or at least can infer from the various big hints
We know that the Myrddraal fear being found by Isam
We learn/see that at least Lord Luc is great fighter, he's been killing Myrddraal all over the TR
We learn that Fain thinks Isam is a "problem for another time"
Graendal
First onscreen mention
We learn she takes “trophies”
Misc
We learn Balefire can destroy the Forsaken
We learn that the Forsaken are not all a united front, and that even amongst the BA there are different orders being given
TFoH
Slayer
No Mention, probably off convalescing from his wounds given by Perrin in TSR
Graendal
First on screen appearance
We learn about her Slaves (Power and Beauty and the heavy use of Compulsion)
We learn that she finds it odd that the Forsaken aren’t actively trying to kill each other
We learn she thinks she is above mere humans
Graendal is aggressive enough to challenge Lanfear in front of other Forsaken and would likely use Balefire in such a fight
We learned that she had carved out a power base and would protect it rather than sitting around plotting against Rand
We learn that Asmodean knew she was in Arad Domon
We learn she pokes around in TAR, spying on the other Forsaken
We know she is aware that Asmodean is teaching Rand and that she is part of the plot to kill/control Rand that Lanfear, Sammael and Rhavin are all part of as well
LoC
Slayer
No mention
Graendal
We learn she remains in cahoots with Sammael and is giving him information on the other FS
We learn that she tends to hide things in plain sight
We learn she already knows of Lanfear and Rahvin’s deaths, and assumes Moghedien and Asmodean are also dead at Rands hands
We learn that Sammael did NOT know that Asmodean was dead
We learn that Graendal is willing to go to great lengths (go to Sharra and steal the rulers) to achieve even small goals
We learn that she hates being threatened in anyway
We learn she is frightened of Rand and will go to great lengths to avoid his detection
We learn that she was a master of mindgames and also some sort of Psychiatrist in the AoL
Misc
The DO already also knew of Asmo’s death
PoD
We learn Graendal looted Sammaels rooms in Ilian
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds
27/05/2010 12:12:50 PM
- 2578 Views
I hate to say it, as I love this mystery....
27/05/2010 03:01:08 PM
- 1326 Views
I have a theory on the killer that doesn't involve Slayer...
28/05/2010 03:41:23 AM
- 1128 Views
In addition to Etzel's comments
28/05/2010 09:08:45 PM
- 977 Views
I'm pretty sure the Myrdraal that killed Caradin's family was a Proto-version of SH *NM*
28/05/2010 09:56:58 PM
- 644 Views
Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin *NM*
29/05/2010 04:40:15 PM
- 608 Views
Re: Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin
29/05/2010 09:16:01 PM
- 1128 Views
Far-fetched, IMO
27/05/2010 04:01:05 PM
- 1421 Views
I don't want Slayer to be the killer
27/05/2010 04:33:06 PM
- 1117 Views
The way you twist things, it certainly seems so!
27/05/2010 05:07:22 PM
- 1213 Views
Bah, hogwash!
27/05/2010 05:17:37 PM
- 1081 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash!
27/05/2010 08:14:16 PM
- 1116 Views
The point is...
28/05/2010 08:38:49 AM
- 1158 Views
Yes, but Fain is a far cry from your average non-channeler
28/05/2010 12:01:44 PM
- 1201 Views
As is Slayer
28/05/2010 12:25:07 PM
- 1064 Views
There is no evidence of this at all
28/05/2010 12:32:37 PM
- 1043 Views
Yeah, the evil guys don't manage to harm the good guys
28/05/2010 12:38:57 PM
- 1015 Views
You always twist the quotes to make them say what Jordan didn't intend to say....
28/05/2010 02:20:09 PM
- 1103 Views
None of this explains how Slayer had opportunity that others didn't
27/05/2010 05:12:48 PM
- 1242 Views
We often see...
27/05/2010 05:33:19 PM
- 1107 Views
I just keep coming back to Slayer needs wild explanations while Graendal is more obvious
27/05/2010 05:52:13 PM
- 1188 Views
Indeed
28/05/2010 08:39:14 AM
- 1043 Views
Well...
28/05/2010 10:19:46 AM
- 1101 Views
Re: Well...
28/05/2010 12:20:15 PM
- 1107 Views
I adressed the points regarding the Fain-comparsion above
28/05/2010 12:35:08 PM
- 1046 Views
your Slayer theory is ridiculously complex!
28/05/2010 12:37:08 PM
- 1094 Views
It just requires to combine some clues from the first 5 books & some common sense
28/05/2010 12:44:10 PM
- 1037 Views
Re: Well...
28/05/2010 02:27:40 PM
- 1209 Views
No...
28/05/2010 03:04:41 PM
- 1130 Views
let's try this another way
28/05/2010 03:14:07 PM
- 1122 Views
The main problem with Graendal is...
28/05/2010 05:31:09 PM
- 1043 Views
Re: The main problem with Graendal is...
28/05/2010 09:20:27 PM
- 1184 Views
my first thought was it was Sammael or Graendal. Come LoC it was clear to me that it was Graendal.
28/05/2010 09:44:38 PM
- 1223 Views
RJ used the expression...
29/05/2010 08:17:08 AM
- 1024 Views
be careful ... your stretching far enough you might hurt yourself
29/05/2010 01:12:29 PM
- 1129 Views

Re: I don't want Slayer to be the killer
27/05/2010 07:47:40 PM
- 1081 Views
Couple of questions
27/05/2010 09:53:05 PM
- 1104 Views
Be'lal managed to get out NO!
27/05/2010 10:08:33 PM
- 957 Views
Hmmm
27/05/2010 10:27:55 PM
- 1077 Views
I don't think you can actually cut BF weaves
27/05/2010 10:45:34 PM
- 988 Views
Hmmm I wonder about that.
27/05/2010 10:58:46 PM
- 1045 Views
I think it would be impossible for someone to react that quickly
27/05/2010 11:13:01 PM
- 1144 Views
Of course you do. Trying to deny it is just silly. Everyone knows your bias. *NM*
27/05/2010 08:43:18 PM
- 557 Views
No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too
27/05/2010 09:08:48 PM
- 1095 Views
Re: No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too
28/05/2010 08:25:46 AM
- 1077 Views
But look...
28/05/2010 09:01:12 AM
- 1103 Views
if there are clues in TFoH I find it hard to believe that Slayer is involved
28/05/2010 12:29:40 PM
- 1002 Views
The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course
28/05/2010 12:32:13 PM
- 1065 Views
Re: The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course
28/05/2010 12:35:22 PM
- 1070 Views
RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM*
28/05/2010 12:40:23 PM
- 1128 Views
Re: RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM*
28/05/2010 12:52:30 PM
- 988 Views
Yeah, I know. *NM*
28/05/2010 02:51:32 PM
- 1053 Views
Yet Slayer is no where to be seen between his vanishing after TSR and the start of WH
28/05/2010 03:09:44 PM
- 1071 Views
???
28/05/2010 02:19:17 PM
- 1037 Views
Of course RJ implied that. You should read his quotes about Asmo! *NM*
28/05/2010 02:52:32 PM
- 1060 Views
Here is what RJ said EDIT
28/05/2010 03:29:19 PM
- 835 Views
Indeed
28/05/2010 05:18:35 PM
- 999 Views
Re: Indeed
28/05/2010 05:26:38 PM
- 962 Views
But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM*
28/05/2010 05:33:02 PM
- 1011 Views
Re: But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM*
28/05/2010 07:05:27 PM
- 985 Views
Re: Far-fetched, IMO
02/06/2010 07:34:58 PM
- 1181 Views
Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? *NM*
02/06/2010 11:13:04 PM
- 676 Views
Re: Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot?
19/06/2010 12:59:54 AM
- 884 Views
Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken
19/06/2010 03:30:37 AM
- 1087 Views
Re: Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken
24/06/2010 09:03:18 AM
- 1293 Views
The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book
26/06/2010 02:32:26 PM
- 798 Views
Re: The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book
01/07/2010 10:13:53 PM
- 1217 Views
Lanfear killed Asmo.....
28/05/2010 05:05:55 AM
- 981 Views
Doesn't make sense
28/05/2010 11:09:14 AM
- 1027 Views
Sorry, Lanfear did it.....
29/05/2010 03:47:44 AM
- 958 Views
Considering that RJ didn't even necessarily want to reveal it, it was pretty random, yeah. *NM*
29/05/2010 08:25:54 AM
- 624 Views
Death is Moridin "when death took him"; need I say more
*NM*
28/05/2010 10:07:14 AM
- 678 Views

There is a quote that refutes this...
28/05/2010 10:22:12 AM
- 1068 Views
He could have recognized Moridan.....due to the True Power in his eyes.
29/05/2010 03:49:49 AM
- 1015 Views
No other Forsaken immediately recognizes Moridin as Ishy because of the saa. *NM*
29/05/2010 08:26:44 AM
- 637 Views
RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever
28/05/2010 08:55:01 PM
- 1094 Views
Re: RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever *NM*
28/05/2010 09:24:41 PM
- 725 Views
I think I found an RJ quote that kills the Slayer theory
29/05/2010 01:57:20 PM
- 972 Views
If Slayer is actually the killer...
29/05/2010 02:20:32 PM
- 1048 Views
Please, RJ would do as he always had and immediately RAFOd a question like that
29/05/2010 02:26:10 PM
- 1013 Views
Well, I don't think so.
29/05/2010 02:43:28 PM
- 1037 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer.
06/06/2010 05:44:05 AM
- 909 Views
If Slayer never met Asmo in the books he could not have killed him
06/06/2010 12:46:40 PM
- 906 Views

But Slayer could have met Asmo, when he was killed.. *NM*
06/06/2010 01:06:01 PM
- 963 Views
Directly contradicts what RJ said "they did not meet in the books"
06/06/2010 02:51:50 PM
- 918 Views
Not "before" the murder. *NM*
06/06/2010 06:03:34 PM
- 963 Views
Re: Not "before" the murder. *NM*
06/06/2010 10:25:16 PM
- 918 Views
He answers the question, if they met "before" the murder. *NM*
07/06/2010 07:18:50 AM
- 666 Views
not if it didn't happen in the books
07/06/2010 12:08:34 PM
- 855 Views
Compilation of the clues I could find on Slayer and Graendal
29/05/2010 04:26:58 PM
- 1096 Views
I think Asmo's killer was as surprised as he.
29/05/2010 09:26:03 PM
- 1037 Views
That's what I've always thought as well.
29/05/2010 10:06:56 PM
- 962 Views
You know, there's no direct proof suggesting that Asmo's killer was "surprised".....
01/06/2010 04:04:56 AM
- 946 Views
except the Author said it was a murder of opportunity
01/06/2010 11:13:14 PM
- 981 Views
That is simply false.
02/06/2010 10:00:27 AM
- 1043 Views
RJ stated it was a murder of opportunity ... I never said "only"
02/06/2010 11:49:23 AM
- 1093 Views
Of course, it is false
02/06/2010 12:13:11 PM
- 1011 Views
Here are the quotes
02/06/2010 12:39:29 PM
- 940 Views
As said, those quotes simply don't support that the murder was basically just an unplanned accident. *NM*
02/06/2010 02:14:29 PM
- 664 Views
I disagree. It's pretty much black and white that the opportunity/timing is the key factor to
02/06/2010 02:39:03 PM
- 870 Views
Actually I like it because it fits Slayer better than Graendal, as pointed out.
*NM*
02/06/2010 02:51:24 PM
- 517 Views

that makes no sense at all *NM*
02/06/2010 02:53:28 PM
- 716 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer.
06/06/2010 05:47:13 AM
- 1042 Views
Well...
06/06/2010 10:46:13 AM
- 1037 Views
Logic
06/06/2010 02:53:27 PM
- 994 Views
You're falling into Etzelian logic there...
06/06/2010 03:25:30 PM
- 991 Views

I'm just being a smartass
*NM*
06/06/2010 03:36:00 PM
- 688 Views

That's not anyone's logic, this argument is simply utter nonsense.
*NM*
07/06/2010 12:08:05 PM
- 1026 Views

just like thinking Slayer was the killer is
07/06/2010 12:09:34 PM
- 976 Views

Yeah...
07/06/2010 12:21:31 PM
- 1067 Views
thinking the top assassin killed someone when it's been stated over and over
07/06/2010 12:56:48 PM
- 1017 Views
Those quotes pretty much show that Graendal is careful...
*NM*
07/06/2010 01:03:26 PM
- 972 Views

No they show that she is deliberate!
07/06/2010 01:12:29 PM
- 1051 Views
That are just semantics
07/06/2010 01:36:12 PM
- 1122 Views
and you think it's obvious that Slayer was the premier Shadow assassin prior to WH?
07/06/2010 02:06:47 PM
- 1008 Views
As I explained you several times, I can see why RJ thought it is obvious, yes...
07/06/2010 02:17:01 PM
- 973 Views
Why wouldn't Graendal head to Caemlyn at that point?
07/06/2010 02:36:24 PM
- 1052 Views
And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin?
07/06/2010 02:54:33 PM
- 1102 Views

Re: And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin?
07/06/2010 03:01:14 PM
- 1063 Views

You should re-read the scene where Moghedien tells Nynaeve about it...
07/06/2010 03:12:55 PM
- 1049 Views
That's a different thing than Moghedien saying the plan was canceled
07/06/2010 03:15:32 PM
- 1128 Views
That is essentially what Moghedien said.
07/06/2010 03:33:35 PM
- 892 Views
um no it's not
07/06/2010 04:17:04 PM
- 979 Views
It's told after that...
07/06/2010 04:46:31 PM
- 944 Views
No it doesn't. It tells us that Rahvin, just like all the others had a side plan in place
07/06/2010 04:55:43 PM
- 1093 Views
Yeah...
07/06/2010 05:17:59 PM
- 1021 Views
Funny I feel the same way you do ...
07/06/2010 05:25:48 PM
- 1018 Views
Ah, whatever...
07/06/2010 05:35:22 PM
- 917 Views

We are on the exact same page
07/06/2010 05:42:48 PM
- 990 Views