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Re: Well... Sidious Send a noteboard - 28/05/2010 02:27:40 PM

The question was always only, who directly killed Asmo by his hands in that scene. IMO, Slayer did this. It's not erroneous to assume then, that he was hired by a Forsaken to do that.


Indeed, except that you use the evidence of Graendal as some of the concrete evidence for your theory.

It's quite telling that Slayer offers to try again killing Rand, though he must be aware that Rand won't still be in a situation like in Far Madding. We also saw Slayer attacking other strong channelers, e.g. Nynaeve. The key is simply timing, surprise and a quick deadly weapon (like a bolt/knife with posion). Since RJ said, that Fain would have managed to kill Asmo in this scene, Slayer as an asssassin could do it even more likely. Besides that, BS said there was a scene in TSR, which was cut from the book, that had told more about Slayer's powers. This might indicate that Slayer is more lethal than you believe. Of course, RJ is very aware of what Slayer can do, thus it's obvious to him.


So Slayer would attack Asmodean head on? Despite the fact that I've shown you that he'd only attack Rand in his sleep in a neutralizing city, you still believe he'd attack one of the original thirteen directly? Pfft...

That's absurd. If one of them hires Slayer to kill the strongest channeler on earth in WH, that means after Rand proved that he can take out the strongest Forsaken, they certainly wouldn't think that Slayer can't take the weakest Forsaken Asmo.


He ambushed Rand while he was sleeping in a city where Rand couldn't channel! That's like saying that a man can kill a lion if the lion has no legs, and teeth and is drugged. Therefore he must have killed that able-bodied lying dead over there.

Again, if Fain would have managed it, then Slayer could do it as well. Asmo wasn't prepared at all to met his killer, had idle thoughts on his mind, a harp in his hands and was then completely surprised and scared to met his killer in this place. If you then hit him with a quick deadly weapon, Asmo has no chance.


Except that even if Asmodean was that moronic, Slayer would not be. He's mentioned that he only bows to the Forsaken, implying that they are the greatest threats he knows, and yet we are to believe he attacks one of them head on with poisoned daggers using surprise. That's like betting on the lottery. Worst of all, to think that any of the thirteen would go pale is utter nonsense. Moridin mentions Slayer to them in WH and it hardly stirs a breeze. 'Oooh, the lethal killer is after Fain'... not really. They're much more concerned about other things.

It was more complex than that.

Which you can't base on anything, except a single paragraph that heavily insinuates that it was a crime of opportunity.
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An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds Etzel - 27/05/2010 12:12:50 PM 2578 Views
I hate to say it, as I love this mystery.... GateKeeper - 27/05/2010 03:01:08 PM 1326 Views
Surely, there can never be enough Asmo threads! *NM* Etzel - 27/05/2010 04:18:06 PM 721 Views
I have a theory on the killer that doesn't involve Slayer... FanEditor10 - 28/05/2010 03:41:23 AM 1128 Views
It's not really obvious... Etzel - 28/05/2010 09:08:27 AM 1066 Views
In addition to Etzel's comments newyorkersedai - 28/05/2010 09:08:45 PM 977 Views
I'm pretty sure the Myrdraal that killed Caradin's family was a Proto-version of SH *NM* darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 09:56:58 PM 644 Views
Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin *NM* newyorkersedai - 29/05/2010 04:40:15 PM 608 Views
Re: Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 09:16:01 PM 1128 Views
Far-fetched, IMO DomA - 27/05/2010 04:01:05 PM 1421 Views
very well said *NM* darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 04:19:10 PM 743 Views
I don't want Slayer to be the killer Etzel - 27/05/2010 04:33:06 PM 1118 Views
The way you twist things, it certainly seems so! fionwe1987 - 27/05/2010 05:07:22 PM 1213 Views
Bah, hogwash! Etzel - 27/05/2010 05:17:37 PM 1082 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash! DomA - 27/05/2010 08:14:16 PM 1117 Views
The point is... Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:38:49 AM 1158 Views
Yes, but Fain is a far cry from your average non-channeler darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:01:44 PM 1201 Views
As is Slayer Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:25:07 PM 1064 Views
There is no evidence of this at all darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:32:37 PM 1043 Views
Yeah, the evil guys don't manage to harm the good guys Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:38:57 PM 1015 Views
so far we've seen Slayer kill a sleeping guy and his wife darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:45:14 PM 1037 Views
I disagree. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:50:02 PM 1151 Views
You always twist the quotes to make them say what Jordan didn't intend to say.... DomA - 28/05/2010 02:20:09 PM 1103 Views
I think this is your interpretation Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:50:14 PM 1049 Views
Yeah right... fionwe1987 - 27/05/2010 08:35:35 PM 1140 Views
See my replies above. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:40:42 AM 933 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash! Sidious - 28/05/2010 08:28:16 AM 931 Views
See my repy to DomA. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:39:15 AM 903 Views
None of this explains how Slayer had opportunity that others didn't darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 05:12:48 PM 1242 Views
We often see... Etzel - 27/05/2010 05:33:19 PM 1107 Views
I just keep coming back to Slayer needs wild explanations while Graendal is more obvious darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 05:52:13 PM 1189 Views
Ok, as we said in the other thread, let's RAFO! *NM* Etzel - 27/05/2010 05:57:49 PM 1201 Views
Agreed *NM* darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 06:03:51 PM 668 Views
Indeed Sidious - 28/05/2010 08:39:14 AM 1043 Views
Well... Etzel - 28/05/2010 10:19:46 AM 1101 Views
Re: Well... darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:20:15 PM 1107 Views
I adressed the points regarding the Fain-comparsion above Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:35:08 PM 1046 Views
your Slayer theory is ridiculously complex! darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:37:08 PM 1094 Views
It just requires to combine some clues from the first 5 books & some common sense Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:44:10 PM 1037 Views
common sense? darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:51:25 PM 1052 Views
See my posts above. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:50:56 PM 1070 Views
Re: Well... Sidious - 28/05/2010 02:27:40 PM 1211 Views
No... Etzel - 28/05/2010 03:04:41 PM 1130 Views
let's try this another way darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 03:14:07 PM 1122 Views
The main problem with Graendal is... Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:31:09 PM 1045 Views
Graendal has a pretty significant role in TFoH darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 06:54:39 PM 1057 Views
Re: The main problem with Graendal is... DomA - 28/05/2010 09:20:27 PM 1184 Views
my first thought was it was Sammael or Graendal. Come LoC it was clear to me that it was Graendal. darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 09:44:38 PM 1224 Views
RJ used the expression... Etzel - 29/05/2010 08:17:08 AM 1024 Views
be careful ... your stretching far enough you might hurt yourself darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 01:12:29 PM 1130 Views
Re: No... Sidious - 28/05/2010 03:38:49 PM 1002 Views
Re: I don't want Slayer to be the killer DomA - 27/05/2010 07:47:40 PM 1081 Views
Couple of questions scalius - 27/05/2010 09:53:05 PM 1106 Views
Be'lal managed to get out NO! darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 10:08:33 PM 957 Views
Hmmm scalius - 27/05/2010 10:27:55 PM 1079 Views
Re: Hmmm RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 10:34:30 PM 972 Views
I don't think you can actually cut BF weaves darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 10:45:34 PM 988 Views
Hmmm I wonder about that. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 10:58:46 PM 1046 Views
I think it would be impossible for someone to react that quickly darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 11:13:01 PM 1144 Views
We've seen it done. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/05/2010 06:32:08 PM 989 Views
Not the same thing darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 07:00:13 PM 972 Views
Re: Couple of questions DomA - 28/05/2010 03:29:29 PM 1137 Views
As said... Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:36:28 AM 1084 Views
Of course you do. Trying to deny it is just silly. Everyone knows your bias. *NM* Tom - 27/05/2010 08:43:18 PM 557 Views
No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too Etzel - 27/05/2010 09:08:48 PM 1095 Views
Re: No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too Sidious - 28/05/2010 08:25:46 AM 1078 Views
But look... Etzel - 28/05/2010 09:01:12 AM 1103 Views
if there are clues in TFoH I find it hard to believe that Slayer is involved darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:29:40 PM 1002 Views
The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:32:13 PM 1065 Views
Re: The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:35:22 PM 1070 Views
RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:40:23 PM 1128 Views
Re: RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM* darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:52:30 PM 990 Views
Yeah, I know. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:51:32 PM 1053 Views
Yet Slayer is no where to be seen between his vanishing after TSR and the start of WH darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 03:09:44 PM 1071 Views
??? Sidious - 28/05/2010 02:19:17 PM 1037 Views
Of course RJ implied that. You should read his quotes about Asmo! *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:52:32 PM 1060 Views
Here is what RJ said EDIT darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 03:29:19 PM 836 Views
Indeed Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:18:35 PM 999 Views
Re: Indeed darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 05:26:38 PM 963 Views
But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:33:02 PM 1011 Views
Re: But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM* darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 07:05:27 PM 987 Views
LOL!! Sidious - 28/05/2010 03:29:35 PM 803 Views
Too much? Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:16:44 PM 1060 Views
Re: Far-fetched, IMO saidarisnowtainted - 02/06/2010 07:34:58 PM 1182 Views
Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? *NM* darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 11:13:04 PM 676 Views
Re: Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? saidarisnowtainted - 19/06/2010 12:59:54 AM 884 Views
Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken darius_sedai - 19/06/2010 03:30:37 AM 1087 Views
Re: Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken saidarisnowtainted - 24/06/2010 09:03:18 AM 1293 Views
The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book darius_sedai - 26/06/2010 02:32:26 PM 799 Views
Re: The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book saidarisnowtainted - 01/07/2010 10:13:53 PM 1218 Views
Re: An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 06:19:18 PM 1014 Views
Re: An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds DomA - 27/05/2010 09:16:21 PM 1025 Views
Lanfear killed Asmo..... trzaska2000 - 28/05/2010 05:05:55 AM 981 Views
Doesn't make sense Etzel - 28/05/2010 11:09:14 AM 1027 Views
Sorry, Lanfear did it..... trzaska2000 - 29/05/2010 03:47:44 AM 958 Views
Considering that RJ didn't even necessarily want to reveal it, it was pretty random, yeah. *NM* Etzel - 29/05/2010 08:25:54 AM 624 Views
Death is Moridin "when death took him"; need I say more *NM* Knightscape - 28/05/2010 10:07:14 AM 678 Views
There is a quote that refutes this... Etzel - 28/05/2010 10:22:12 AM 1068 Views
He could have recognized Moridan.....due to the True Power in his eyes. trzaska2000 - 29/05/2010 03:49:49 AM 1015 Views
No other Forsaken immediately recognizes Moridin as Ishy because of the saa. *NM* Etzel - 29/05/2010 08:26:44 AM 637 Views
RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever newyorkersedai - 28/05/2010 08:55:01 PM 1095 Views
Re: RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever *NM* newyorkersedai - 28/05/2010 09:24:41 PM 726 Views
I think I found an RJ quote that kills the Slayer theory darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 01:57:20 PM 972 Views
If Slayer is actually the killer... Etzel - 29/05/2010 02:20:32 PM 1048 Views
Please, RJ would do as he always had and immediately RAFOd a question like that darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 02:26:10 PM 1013 Views
Well, I don't think so. Etzel - 29/05/2010 02:43:28 PM 1037 Views
yet he never gave an answer like this one darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 02:57:35 PM 1107 Views
Again... Etzel - 29/05/2010 03:09:06 PM 1104 Views
Taking things NO darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 03:12:24 PM 1073 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer. FanEditor10 - 06/06/2010 05:44:05 AM 909 Views
If Slayer never met Asmo in the books he could not have killed him darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 12:46:40 PM 906 Views
But Slayer could have met Asmo, when he was killed.. *NM* Etzel - 06/06/2010 01:06:01 PM 968 Views
Directly contradicts what RJ said "they did not meet in the books" darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 02:51:50 PM 919 Views
Not "before" the murder. *NM* Etzel - 06/06/2010 06:03:34 PM 964 Views
Re: Not "before" the murder. *NM* darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 10:25:16 PM 918 Views
He answers the question, if they met "before" the murder. *NM* Etzel - 07/06/2010 07:18:50 AM 666 Views
not if it didn't happen in the books darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:08:34 PM 856 Views
I'm relieved then... Etzel - 07/06/2010 12:13:58 PM 862 Views
it's nearly as simplistic as knowing Graendal did it darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:48:42 PM 996 Views
Compilation of the clues I could find on Slayer and Graendal darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 04:26:58 PM 1096 Views
I think Asmo's killer was as surprised as he. TaskmasterJack - 29/05/2010 09:26:03 PM 1038 Views
That's what I've always thought as well. Seriana Sedai - 29/05/2010 10:06:56 PM 962 Views
That's always been my theory too Sidious - 29/05/2010 10:18:30 PM 1062 Views
*nods* darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 11:23:18 PM 1081 Views
Re: That's always been my theory too Seriana Sedai - 30/05/2010 07:35:50 AM 995 Views
You know, there's no direct proof suggesting that Asmo's killer was "surprised"..... trzaska2000 - 01/06/2010 04:04:56 AM 947 Views
That's why I said "I think" and offered my opinion. TaskmasterJack - 01/06/2010 09:46:09 PM 996 Views
except the Author said it was a murder of opportunity darius_sedai - 01/06/2010 11:13:14 PM 982 Views
That is simply false. Etzel - 02/06/2010 10:00:27 AM 1044 Views
RJ stated it was a murder of opportunity ... I never said "only" darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 11:49:23 AM 1093 Views
Of course, it is false Etzel - 02/06/2010 12:13:11 PM 1012 Views
Here are the quotes darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 12:39:29 PM 941 Views
As said, those quotes simply don't support that the murder was basically just an unplanned accident. *NM* Etzel - 02/06/2010 02:14:29 PM 664 Views
I disagree. It's pretty much black and white that the opportunity/timing is the key factor to darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 02:39:03 PM 871 Views
Actually I like it because it fits Slayer better than Graendal, as pointed out. *NM* Etzel - 02/06/2010 02:51:24 PM 520 Views
that makes no sense at all *NM* darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 02:53:28 PM 716 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer. FanEditor10 - 06/06/2010 05:47:13 AM 1042 Views
Well... Etzel - 06/06/2010 10:46:13 AM 1037 Views
Logic darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 02:53:27 PM 994 Views
You're falling into Etzelian logic there... DomA - 06/06/2010 03:25:30 PM 991 Views
I'm just being a smartass *NM* darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 03:36:00 PM 688 Views
It's good that Etzel sticks to his guns Sidious - 06/06/2010 04:42:01 PM 1099 Views
OMG, Taim and Mesaana were getting it on in the pantry darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 09:49:57 PM 960 Views
That reminds me... Fanatic-Templar - 19/06/2010 04:46:58 AM 986 Views
That's not anyone's logic, this argument is simply utter nonsense. *NM* Etzel - 07/06/2010 12:08:05 PM 1027 Views
just like thinking Slayer was the killer is darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:09:34 PM 977 Views
Yeah... Etzel - 07/06/2010 12:21:31 PM 1069 Views
thinking the top assassin killed someone when it's been stated over and over darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:56:48 PM 1017 Views
Those quotes pretty much show that Graendal is careful... *NM* Etzel - 07/06/2010 01:03:26 PM 973 Views
No they show that she is deliberate! darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 01:12:29 PM 1052 Views
That are just semantics Etzel - 07/06/2010 01:36:12 PM 1122 Views
and you think it's obvious that Slayer was the premier Shadow assassin prior to WH? darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 02:06:47 PM 1008 Views
As I explained you several times, I can see why RJ thought it is obvious, yes... Etzel - 07/06/2010 02:17:01 PM 974 Views
Why wouldn't Graendal head to Caemlyn at that point? darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 02:36:24 PM 1052 Views
And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin? Etzel - 07/06/2010 02:54:33 PM 1102 Views
Re: And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin? darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 03:01:14 PM 1063 Views
You should re-read the scene where Moghedien tells Nynaeve about it... Etzel - 07/06/2010 03:12:55 PM 1050 Views
That's a different thing than Moghedien saying the plan was canceled darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 03:15:32 PM 1129 Views
That is essentially what Moghedien said. Etzel - 07/06/2010 03:33:35 PM 892 Views
um no it's not darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 04:17:04 PM 979 Views
It's told after that... Etzel - 07/06/2010 04:46:31 PM 944 Views
No it doesn't. It tells us that Rahvin, just like all the others had a side plan in place darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 04:55:43 PM 1094 Views
Yeah... Etzel - 07/06/2010 05:17:59 PM 1021 Views
Funny I feel the same way you do ... darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 05:25:48 PM 1018 Views
Ah, whatever... Etzel - 07/06/2010 05:35:22 PM 920 Views
We are on the exact same page darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 05:42:48 PM 990 Views
Re: We are on the exact same page Sidious - 07/06/2010 05:52:37 PM 1067 Views
LMAO darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 06:07:16 PM 1449 Views
I promised Etzel long ago... Fanatic-Templar - 19/06/2010 04:49:11 AM 1000 Views
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