If she could enter TAR she could drag an AS in with her, compell them and make them take it off
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 27/05/2010 07:14:26 PM
But she let Chesmal heal her and only Liandrin (who she expected) tried to betray her. It wouldn't be particularly difficult for her to find a BA Sister to free her. If she could enter TAR she could snag them from their dreams and kill them if they disobeyed her or tried to make her a prisoner. Once she was free she'd likely kill them anyway. We also know Compulsion in TAR is actually stronger than in the waking world, so all she'd need do is set a Compulsion on a Sister and she's free as a bird with no one the wiser.
The issue is simple: how could she maintain obedience when she will be showing weakness in front of her minions not once but twice. Furthermore, if any of the Black Ajah saw that collar (keeping in mind that many of them actually know what an a'dam does and may be able to recognize it), they would realize that she is entirely under their control. This is an organization full of evil people - trust is not something that they practice that often, and we know from the way the a'dam works, that you may very well be unable to draw upon the will necessary to destroy the one who holds your leash. Perhaps this weakened will would be enough to guarantee your destruction should you be trapped in a nightmare or their particular dream. From all descriptions we have received, being leashed is a draining experience and not something that keeps your willpower and sense of self (extremely important factors when manipulating T'A'R) intact.
This would take a few minutes of fumbling at most! Any number of characters have figured it out pretty quickly so I don't think it would be too tough for an AS to manage. If she has a woman from the camp handy it wouldn't take much time and no one would even notice. Worse case she has the woman Travel away with her until they can get it off.
Yet Egwene was completely unable to even initiate the attempt, nor could the Aes Sedai or Windfinders, all capable women of above average intelligence, figure out a way to remove the collars.
It may seem easy to us, as the readers, but I doubt if the collar were real, any one of us could figure out how it clasped, based upon the description of it we've gotten.
I'm not saying Moghedien would be able to take it off, but a Compelled AS under her control would be able to figure it out in minutes.
She wouldn't need to maintain control over them ... just bring them to TAR against their will and do exactly what she told Nynaeve she was going to do to her and Elayne when Nynaeve captured her. Evil or not Sheriam (for arguments sake) would do everything Moghedien wanted her to do without even knowing why.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
Help me out with a TAR problem
26/05/2010 08:10:07 PM
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Re: Help me out with a TAR problem
26/05/2010 08:28:34 PM
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No I don't mean that
26/05/2010 08:37:27 PM
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Re: No I don't mean that
26/05/2010 08:39:42 PM
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Re: No I don't mean that
26/05/2010 08:52:22 PM
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I'm inclined to think the a'dam stops Dream Walking
26/05/2010 09:26:20 PM
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Re: I'm inclined to think the a'dam stops Dream Walking
26/05/2010 09:49:24 PM
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And it seems the woman wearing the bracelet has strange dreams too
26/05/2010 10:54:26 PM
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I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that.
26/05/2010 11:39:14 PM
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Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that.
26/05/2010 11:50:56 PM
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Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that.
27/05/2010 12:06:55 AM
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Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that.
27/05/2010 12:21:53 AM
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Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that.
27/05/2010 02:58:36 PM
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I disagree
27/05/2010 03:21:05 PM
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Re: I disagree
27/05/2010 07:08:41 PM
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If she could enter TAR she could drag an AS in with her, compell them and make them take it off
27/05/2010 07:14:26 PM
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Re: If she could enter TAR she could drag an AS in with her, compell them and make them take it off
27/05/2010 09:21:11 PM
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I think we are saying pretty much the same thing here
27/05/2010 09:24:37 PM
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We are close to the same idea, but different in where we think her ability will stop.
27/05/2010 09:37:28 PM
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But channelling is not a requirement to enter TAR
27/05/2010 08:31:21 AM
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The a'dam affects things in Channelers other than the ability itself
27/05/2010 01:58:34 PM
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I don't agree.
27/05/2010 03:02:08 PM
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you are misreading me I think
27/05/2010 03:11:50 PM
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Re: you are misreading me I think
27/05/2010 06:30:29 PM
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That's the point.
27/05/2010 06:57:35 PM
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Re: That's the point.
27/05/2010 07:10:25 PM
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Re: That's the point.
27/05/2010 07:16:49 PM
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Interesting idea.
26/05/2010 09:38:04 PM
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There may be a clue to this in the descriptions of astral projection in comics and psychic studies
26/05/2010 11:59:42 PM
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we've seen this fail
26/05/2010 08:38:06 PM
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So I think this disproves it
26/05/2010 08:49:55 PM
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Is that really true?
26/05/2010 08:53:45 PM
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Sid, I made some edits, but really nothing's certain. Look again, pls. *NM*
26/05/2010 08:55:30 PM
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I would generally agree with your edits
26/05/2010 08:57:32 PM
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yes and no
26/05/2010 09:31:53 PM
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Re: yes and no
26/05/2010 09:55:46 PM
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5+ entries for "Book 4-6 Thing " now... Funny that we wrote slight variations simultaneously
26/05/2010 10:24:03 PM
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well Moghedien somehow managed to create a whole Body for Birgitte
26/05/2010 10:36:45 PM
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Could Rahvin turn Rand into a fishman if he was just there in Spirit?
26/05/2010 10:19:05 PM
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You have to enter TAR in the Flesh to leave it in the Flesh.
26/05/2010 10:06:02 PM
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I think this is possible.
26/05/2010 11:28:51 PM
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Dream gateway!
27/05/2010 12:05:31 AM
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I think the problem is that you can only channel Spirit through your T'A'R form
27/05/2010 03:05:13 PM
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if you dream yourself into T'A'R then you're just a creation of your own mind
27/05/2010 12:02:38 AM
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if that was true you couldn't die in T'A'R
27/05/2010 12:08:10 AM
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I don't think anybody has said this before...
27/05/2010 04:01:28 AM
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Your real body can only channel Spirit.
27/05/2010 05:25:08 AM
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Yes, but you need real One Power to affect the real world.
27/05/2010 06:46:21 AM
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Yes, I agree with that, but I was mostly just replying to your question about sleep-channeling.
27/05/2010 06:56:18 AM
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The only real situation we have to compare...
27/05/2010 06:59:51 AM
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That's a weird situation.
27/05/2010 07:09:21 AM
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Well, yes. The Birgitte situation can't be compared directly to Sidious'
27/05/2010 08:01:38 AM
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Re: The only real situation we have to compare...
27/05/2010 07:11:45 PM
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If something that didn't exist before existed after...
27/05/2010 08:58:55 PM
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Re: If something that didn't exist before existed after...
28/05/2010 02:09:01 PM
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Actually I don't think so..
28/05/2010 02:31:27 PM
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Plus, their ability to affect reality comes from the magic of the Horn of Valere.
28/05/2010 06:14:21 PM
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TAR constructs cannot leave it.
27/05/2010 04:57:12 PM
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Not just constructs ... anything reflected in TAR cannot leave it ...
27/05/2010 10:05:37 PM
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I agree with those saying that if you don't physically enter TAR...
29/05/2010 09:32:40 PM
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