None of this explains how Slayer had opportunity that others didn't
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 27/05/2010 05:12:48 PM
But I certainly think he fits the clues from the books and what RJ said best.
It was reported that RJ said Asmo is "roadkill". In slang that simply means - and I cite the free dictionary, but there are similar definitions elsewhere, too - : "One that has failed or been defeated and is no longer worthy of consideration." It's certainly not meant in its literal meaning, namely that Asmo is "an animal killed by being struck by a motor vehicle", since that wouldn't make much sense. Meriam Webster even defines roadkill as "one that falls victim to intense competition <political roadkill>", which would support the idea of a fellow Forsaken sending a killer to assassinate the rival Asmo.
"Roadkill" most likely means here that Asmo wasn't needed anymore in the story and thus the author let him die in some way, but not that the murder wasn't planned at all by the killer, and that it was basically a complete accident.
RJ also said that "timing is what you should focus on" and it's reported "he emphasized OPPORTUNITY as the key to knowing Asmodean's killer, even over motive (which got a mention)". This makes clear that someone saw an opportunity to kill Asmo, and managed it to get to the right place in time. This is further supported by RJ's statement that "Padan Fain didn't [kill Asmo] because he wasn't in the right place at the right time. He would have if he had been in the right place at the right time, but he wasn't."
This makes clear that the killer managed to use the opportunity to kill Asmo in time, likely because the killer figured where Asmo would go (and if Asmo hadn't opened the small door, the killer had simply waited for another good opportunity).
Plus, that even Fain would have succeeded to kill Asmo, shows that certainly Slayer could manage it as well.
It was reported that RJ said Asmo is "roadkill". In slang that simply means - and I cite the free dictionary, but there are similar definitions elsewhere, too - : "One that has failed or been defeated and is no longer worthy of consideration." It's certainly not meant in its literal meaning, namely that Asmo is "an animal killed by being struck by a motor vehicle", since that wouldn't make much sense. Meriam Webster even defines roadkill as "one that falls victim to intense competition <political roadkill>", which would support the idea of a fellow Forsaken sending a killer to assassinate the rival Asmo.
"Roadkill" most likely means here that Asmo wasn't needed anymore in the story and thus the author let him die in some way, but not that the murder wasn't planned at all by the killer, and that it was basically a complete accident.
RJ also said that "timing is what you should focus on" and it's reported "he emphasized OPPORTUNITY as the key to knowing Asmodean's killer, even over motive (which got a mention)". This makes clear that someone saw an opportunity to kill Asmo, and managed it to get to the right place in time. This is further supported by RJ's statement that "Padan Fain didn't [kill Asmo] because he wasn't in the right place at the right time. He would have if he had been in the right place at the right time, but he wasn't."
This makes clear that the killer managed to use the opportunity to kill Asmo in time, likely because the killer figured where Asmo would go (and if Asmo hadn't opened the small door, the killer had simply waited for another good opportunity).
Plus, that even Fain would have succeeded to kill Asmo, shows that certainly Slayer could manage it as well.
IMO him being in Caemlyn on that day at that time is a much more random event than any of the Forsaken checking it out.
Slayer doesn't have special powers to know where his prey may be at any given moment (he relied on information from his benefactor in WH), so how did he know Asmodean was even in Caemlyn in time for him to get there, find him and kill him? Asmo was there for less than a day when he was killed.
WH
Out of Thin Air
Isam paced the room, studying by the ever-present light of Tel'aran'rhiod. The bed linens shifted from rumpled to neatly made between one glance and the next. The coverlet changed from flowered to plain dark red to quilted. The ephemeral always changed here, and he barely noticed anymore. He could not use Tel'aran'rhiod the way the Chosen could, but here was where he felt most free. Here, he could be who he wanted to be. He chuckled at the thought.
Stopping beside the bed, he carefully unsheathed the two poisoned daggers and stepped out of the Unseen World into the waking. As he did, he became Luc. It seemed appropriate.
The room was dark in the waking world, but the single window let in sufficient moonlight for Luc to make out the mounded shapes of two people lying asleep beneath their blankets. Without hesitation he drove a blade into each. They woke with small cries, but he pulled the blades free and drove them in again and again. With the poison, it was unlikely either would have had the strength to shout loudly enough to be heard outside the room, but he wanted to make this kill his own in a way that poison could not grant. Soon they stopped twitching when he thrust a blade between ribs.
Wiping the daggers clean on the coverlet, he resheathed them with as much care as he had drawn them. He had been given many gifts, but immunity to poison, or any other weapon, was not among them. Then he took a short candle from his pocket and blew away enough ash from the banked coals in the fireplace to light the wick. He always liked to see the people he killed, after if he could not during. He had especially enjoyed those two Aes Sedai in the Stone of Tear. The incredulity on their faces when he appeared out of thin air, the horror when they realized he had not come to save them, were treasured memories. That had been Isam, not him, but the memories were none the less prized for that. Neither of them got to kill an Aes Sedai very often.
For a moment he studied the faces of the man and woman on the bed, then pinched out the candle's flame and returned the candle to his pocket before stepping back into Tel'aran'rhiod.
His patron of the moment was waiting for him. A man, he was sure of that much, but Luc could not look at him. It was not as it was with those slimy Gray Men, whom you just did not notice. He had killed one of them, once, in the White Tower itself. They felt cold and empty to the touch. It had been like killing a corpse. No, this man had done something with the Power so Luc's eyes slid away from him like water sliding down glass. Even seen at the corner of the eye, he was a blur.
"The pair sleeping in this room will sleep forever," Luc said, "but the man was bald, the woman gray."
"A pity," the man said, and the voice seemed to melt in Luc's ears. He would not be able to recognize it if he heard it without the disguise. The man had to be one of the Chosen. Few save the Chosen knew how to reach him, and none of the men among those few could channel, or would have dared trying to command him. His services were always begged, except by the Great Lord himself, and more recently by the Chosen, but none of the Chosen Luc had met had ever taken such precautions as this.
It's clear to me that this passage takes Slayer out of the equation completely. He tells us:
1. That he's killed AS and Grey Men, but doesn't think of one of the Chosen, despite the fact that killing AS was a rare thing!
2. That he cannot use TAR the same way as one of the FS.
3. We see that he doesn't have some magical sense on his victims since he killed the wrong people and didn't know it until he took a good look at them.
4. That he has not met all of the Chosen, he qualifies his statement to "of the Chosen he had met"
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds
27/05/2010 12:12:50 PM
- 2510 Views
I hate to say it, as I love this mystery....
27/05/2010 03:01:08 PM
- 1249 Views
I have a theory on the killer that doesn't involve Slayer...
28/05/2010 03:41:23 AM
- 1059 Views
In addition to Etzel's comments
28/05/2010 09:08:45 PM
- 902 Views
I'm pretty sure the Myrdraal that killed Caradin's family was a Proto-version of SH *NM*
28/05/2010 09:56:58 PM
- 622 Views
Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin *NM*
29/05/2010 04:40:15 PM
- 576 Views
Re: Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin
29/05/2010 09:16:01 PM
- 1046 Views
Far-fetched, IMO
27/05/2010 04:01:05 PM
- 1359 Views
I don't want Slayer to be the killer
27/05/2010 04:33:06 PM
- 1040 Views
The way you twist things, it certainly seems so!
27/05/2010 05:07:22 PM
- 1128 Views
Bah, hogwash!
27/05/2010 05:17:37 PM
- 1005 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash!
27/05/2010 08:14:16 PM
- 1072 Views
The point is...
28/05/2010 08:38:49 AM
- 1069 Views
Yes, but Fain is a far cry from your average non-channeler
28/05/2010 12:01:44 PM
- 1121 Views
As is Slayer
28/05/2010 12:25:07 PM
- 994 Views
There is no evidence of this at all
28/05/2010 12:32:37 PM
- 976 Views
Yeah, the evil guys don't manage to harm the good guys
28/05/2010 12:38:57 PM
- 939 Views
You always twist the quotes to make them say what Jordan didn't intend to say....
28/05/2010 02:20:09 PM
- 1028 Views
None of this explains how Slayer had opportunity that others didn't
27/05/2010 05:12:48 PM
- 1165 Views
We often see...
27/05/2010 05:33:19 PM
- 1035 Views
I just keep coming back to Slayer needs wild explanations while Graendal is more obvious
27/05/2010 05:52:13 PM
- 1122 Views
Indeed
28/05/2010 08:39:14 AM
- 971 Views
Well...
28/05/2010 10:19:46 AM
- 1022 Views
Re: Well...
28/05/2010 12:20:15 PM
- 1027 Views
I adressed the points regarding the Fain-comparsion above
28/05/2010 12:35:08 PM
- 972 Views
your Slayer theory is ridiculously complex!
28/05/2010 12:37:08 PM
- 1012 Views
It just requires to combine some clues from the first 5 books & some common sense
28/05/2010 12:44:10 PM
- 963 Views
Re: Well...
28/05/2010 02:27:40 PM
- 1140 Views
No...
28/05/2010 03:04:41 PM
- 1060 Views
let's try this another way
28/05/2010 03:14:07 PM
- 1050 Views
The main problem with Graendal is...
28/05/2010 05:31:09 PM
- 976 Views
Re: The main problem with Graendal is...
28/05/2010 09:20:27 PM
- 1114 Views
my first thought was it was Sammael or Graendal. Come LoC it was clear to me that it was Graendal.
28/05/2010 09:44:38 PM
- 1145 Views
RJ used the expression...
29/05/2010 08:17:08 AM
- 953 Views
be careful ... your stretching far enough you might hurt yourself
29/05/2010 01:12:29 PM
- 1063 Views
Re: I don't want Slayer to be the killer
27/05/2010 07:47:40 PM
- 993 Views
Couple of questions
27/05/2010 09:53:05 PM
- 1018 Views
Be'lal managed to get out NO!
27/05/2010 10:08:33 PM
- 884 Views
Hmmm
27/05/2010 10:27:55 PM
- 1003 Views
I don't think you can actually cut BF weaves
27/05/2010 10:45:34 PM
- 905 Views
Hmmm I wonder about that.
27/05/2010 10:58:46 PM
- 985 Views
I think it would be impossible for someone to react that quickly
27/05/2010 11:13:01 PM
- 1066 Views
Of course you do. Trying to deny it is just silly. Everyone knows your bias. *NM*
27/05/2010 08:43:18 PM
- 530 Views
No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too
27/05/2010 09:08:48 PM
- 1024 Views
Re: No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too
28/05/2010 08:25:46 AM
- 998 Views
But look...
28/05/2010 09:01:12 AM
- 1032 Views
if there are clues in TFoH I find it hard to believe that Slayer is involved
28/05/2010 12:29:40 PM
- 939 Views
The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course
28/05/2010 12:32:13 PM
- 987 Views
Re: The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course
28/05/2010 12:35:22 PM
- 1002 Views
RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM*
28/05/2010 12:40:23 PM
- 1059 Views
Re: RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM*
28/05/2010 12:52:30 PM
- 916 Views
Yeah, I know. *NM*
28/05/2010 02:51:32 PM
- 981 Views
Yet Slayer is no where to be seen between his vanishing after TSR and the start of WH
28/05/2010 03:09:44 PM
- 1001 Views
???
28/05/2010 02:19:17 PM
- 969 Views
Of course RJ implied that. You should read his quotes about Asmo! *NM*
28/05/2010 02:52:32 PM
- 986 Views
Here is what RJ said EDIT
28/05/2010 03:29:19 PM
- 773 Views
Indeed
28/05/2010 05:18:35 PM
- 935 Views
Re: Indeed
28/05/2010 05:26:38 PM
- 886 Views
But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM*
28/05/2010 05:33:02 PM
- 941 Views
Re: But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM*
28/05/2010 07:05:27 PM
- 898 Views
Re: Far-fetched, IMO
02/06/2010 07:34:58 PM
- 1104 Views
Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? *NM*
02/06/2010 11:13:04 PM
- 649 Views
Re: Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot?
19/06/2010 12:59:54 AM
- 807 Views
Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken
19/06/2010 03:30:37 AM
- 1016 Views
Re: Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken
24/06/2010 09:03:18 AM
- 1211 Views
The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book
26/06/2010 02:32:26 PM
- 714 Views
Re: The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book
01/07/2010 10:13:53 PM
- 1156 Views
Lanfear killed Asmo.....
28/05/2010 05:05:55 AM
- 913 Views
Doesn't make sense
28/05/2010 11:09:14 AM
- 947 Views
Sorry, Lanfear did it.....
29/05/2010 03:47:44 AM
- 888 Views
Considering that RJ didn't even necessarily want to reveal it, it was pretty random, yeah. *NM*
29/05/2010 08:25:54 AM
- 593 Views
Death is Moridin "when death took him"; need I say more *NM*
28/05/2010 10:07:14 AM
- 646 Views
There is a quote that refutes this...
28/05/2010 10:22:12 AM
- 999 Views
He could have recognized Moridan.....due to the True Power in his eyes.
29/05/2010 03:49:49 AM
- 937 Views
No other Forsaken immediately recognizes Moridin as Ishy because of the saa. *NM*
29/05/2010 08:26:44 AM
- 598 Views
RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever
28/05/2010 08:55:01 PM
- 1018 Views
Re: RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever *NM*
28/05/2010 09:24:41 PM
- 692 Views
I think I found an RJ quote that kills the Slayer theory
29/05/2010 01:57:20 PM
- 909 Views
If Slayer is actually the killer...
29/05/2010 02:20:32 PM
- 973 Views
Please, RJ would do as he always had and immediately RAFOd a question like that
29/05/2010 02:26:10 PM
- 933 Views
Well, I don't think so.
29/05/2010 02:43:28 PM
- 947 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer.
06/06/2010 05:44:05 AM
- 835 Views
If Slayer never met Asmo in the books he could not have killed him
06/06/2010 12:46:40 PM
- 837 Views
But Slayer could have met Asmo, when he was killed.. *NM*
06/06/2010 01:06:01 PM
- 880 Views
Directly contradicts what RJ said "they did not meet in the books"
06/06/2010 02:51:50 PM
- 848 Views
Not "before" the murder. *NM*
06/06/2010 06:03:34 PM
- 921 Views
Re: Not "before" the murder. *NM*
06/06/2010 10:25:16 PM
- 834 Views
He answers the question, if they met "before" the murder. *NM*
07/06/2010 07:18:50 AM
- 641 Views
not if it didn't happen in the books
07/06/2010 12:08:34 PM
- 771 Views
I think Asmo's killer was as surprised as he.
29/05/2010 09:26:03 PM
- 956 Views
That's what I've always thought as well.
29/05/2010 10:06:56 PM
- 870 Views
You know, there's no direct proof suggesting that Asmo's killer was "surprised".....
01/06/2010 04:04:56 AM
- 885 Views
except the Author said it was a murder of opportunity
01/06/2010 11:13:14 PM
- 912 Views
That is simply false.
02/06/2010 10:00:27 AM
- 951 Views
RJ stated it was a murder of opportunity ... I never said "only"
02/06/2010 11:49:23 AM
- 1019 Views
Of course, it is false
02/06/2010 12:13:11 PM
- 939 Views
Here are the quotes
02/06/2010 12:39:29 PM
- 877 Views
As said, those quotes simply don't support that the murder was basically just an unplanned accident. *NM*
02/06/2010 02:14:29 PM
- 646 Views
I disagree. It's pretty much black and white that the opportunity/timing is the key factor to
02/06/2010 02:39:03 PM
- 799 Views
Actually I like it because it fits Slayer better than Graendal, as pointed out. *NM*
02/06/2010 02:51:24 PM
- 485 Views
that makes no sense at all *NM*
02/06/2010 02:53:28 PM
- 697 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer.
06/06/2010 05:47:13 AM
- 974 Views
Well...
06/06/2010 10:46:13 AM
- 963 Views
Logic
06/06/2010 02:53:27 PM
- 912 Views
You're falling into Etzelian logic there...
06/06/2010 03:25:30 PM
- 917 Views
I'm just being a smartass *NM*
06/06/2010 03:36:00 PM
- 659 Views
That's not anyone's logic, this argument is simply utter nonsense. *NM*
07/06/2010 12:08:05 PM
- 952 Views
just like thinking Slayer was the killer is
07/06/2010 12:09:34 PM
- 896 Views
Yeah...
07/06/2010 12:21:31 PM
- 964 Views
thinking the top assassin killed someone when it's been stated over and over
07/06/2010 12:56:48 PM
- 951 Views
Those quotes pretty much show that Graendal is careful... *NM*
07/06/2010 01:03:26 PM
- 879 Views
No they show that she is deliberate!
07/06/2010 01:12:29 PM
- 978 Views
That are just semantics
07/06/2010 01:36:12 PM
- 1047 Views
and you think it's obvious that Slayer was the premier Shadow assassin prior to WH?
07/06/2010 02:06:47 PM
- 932 Views
As I explained you several times, I can see why RJ thought it is obvious, yes...
07/06/2010 02:17:01 PM
- 902 Views
Why wouldn't Graendal head to Caemlyn at that point?
07/06/2010 02:36:24 PM
- 986 Views
And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin?
07/06/2010 02:54:33 PM
- 1022 Views
Re: And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin?
07/06/2010 03:01:14 PM
- 987 Views
You should re-read the scene where Moghedien tells Nynaeve about it...
07/06/2010 03:12:55 PM
- 955 Views
That's a different thing than Moghedien saying the plan was canceled
07/06/2010 03:15:32 PM
- 1049 Views
That is essentially what Moghedien said.
07/06/2010 03:33:35 PM
- 823 Views
um no it's not
07/06/2010 04:17:04 PM
- 903 Views
It's told after that...
07/06/2010 04:46:31 PM
- 872 Views
No it doesn't. It tells us that Rahvin, just like all the others had a side plan in place
07/06/2010 04:55:43 PM
- 1054 Views
Yeah...
07/06/2010 05:17:59 PM
- 952 Views
Funny I feel the same way you do ...
07/06/2010 05:25:48 PM
- 943 Views
Ah, whatever...
07/06/2010 05:35:22 PM
- 844 Views
We are on the exact same page
07/06/2010 05:42:48 PM
- 923 Views