fact: Elayne and others describe the palace as labyrinthine but lofty. It has these large corridors, interconnected, with many doors, niches with objects - especially the ground floor where the "public areas" like the throne room, ballrooms, reception rooms, waiting rooms, courtyards and so on are located. This is the area important visitors see etc.
fact: the area Asmodean was in is one used by the Queen and guests. It leads to this nice and quiet inner courtyard she uses, where Aviendha, Mat and Asmodean were. The rooms Rand has picked for himself look over thsi courtyard. The point is: this is not a work area for servants or workers, it's an area of the palace for the masters. Servant places in that area would be located with service to master rooms in mind (ie: discreet but close to the rooms where service is needed).
fact: the corridor from the courtyard Asmodean used was one in which Rahvin and Rand fought.
fact: At no point did Rahvin and Rand ended up in a dead end with a small door. They kept moving from corridor to corridor until Rahvin suddenly went into TAR. The point is: the small door can't be located at the end of a corridor, and the corridor won't be a long doorless stretch either. The small door was along the way in one of the side walls, and the corridor keeps going beyond it. The corridor may lead to the throne room where Rand surprised Rahvin, in fact we know</i it does because of the balefire marks, but we don't know if it does so directly, or you have to turn here and there and take other corridors before you get in that area, and how far it is from the courtyard.
fact: We don't know where Asmodean was heading from the courtyard. Maybe he did, but he didn't think about it. He didn't know the palace well, and was most likely going back in the way he came out to the courtyard. Was he returning to Rand, going back to his rooms (neither would be on the ground floor in Caemlyn), just taking a walk? We don't know. What we know is that the small door wasn't his destination, he didn't even know it existed, and was never looking for something like that! He spotted it all of a sudden as he progressed in the corridor, seing it his mind made the immediate connection to servants (because it's a small door in comparison to the masters' doors around), and to a servants' pantry (which may or not be there.. we don't know Asmodean was right, though the smallness of the door in a palace is a valid indication this door most likely leads to a servant area1/room or another). That door made him think he could use a drink. He stopped, took the last steps to the door, opened it, stepped inside and there, he saw his killer.
So, is it conceivable that someone who saw Asmodean go back in could have guessed where he really went (as opposed to his final destination he never reached and we don't know about, if he even had a precise aim in mind)? No, absolutely not. These corridors lead to many places, and this one is confirmed not to be a deadend. Someone observing Asmodean would make the exact same guesses we can make: that he was heading back to his rooms, or to Rand, or was taking a stroll in the palace. We don't even know if the room he entered really lead to a pantry (Maybe not. Food and drink service in Caemlyn is shown as being done from the kitchens later on, drinks and food being carried in the formal rooms before the guests arrive. It doesn't mean the floor's footmen etc. don't have pantries to await calls or rest, however), and no one goes to the servant pantries normally. People ring a servant who comes to you. Asmodean entered that door because most of the servants had fled and no one was in attendance to serve anyone. To figure out the room Asmodean entered, someone would have to be right behind him in the last seconds before he saw the small door, went to it and opened it. It's very unlikely someone was behind him. That person would have to come from one of the side rooms or the courtyard, to begin with, and with the palace empty and thus silent, Asmodean would have noticed footsteps behind or ahead of him anyway (and before you mention that, Slayer wears boots - not slippers or mocassins - he can't be that stealthy), especially since there'd be a lot of echo in an empty high ceilinged palace (we even know for a fact there is, much later Elayne and co. hear the echo of Slayer's footsteps as he clumsily runs away from the spot he was spying on them).
This is all irrelevant anyway: Jordan said Asmodean was a "road kill" and a murder of opportunity. No one has been following him, waiting to ambush him and kill him. If Jordan wanted us to deduce that, he would have had Asmodean notice a noise and look around at some point in his strolling, before he opened the door. The scene is written quite clearly so we understand right away Asmodean wasn't heading for this location all along but at the last minute chose to open that small door. The person inside the room wasn't waiting for him, the person was surprised by him in this room, but that person was faster to react than he was (unlike Asmodean, the person had a few precious seconds' warning that someone was opening the door and getting in the room).
It doesn't mean you have the wrong killer, but most definitely you have the circumstances of the murder all wrong, because your theory as it stands contradicts the facts laid out by the text.
You want Slayer to be the killer, start by finding believable reasons for him to have been in that room where Asmodean surprised him, and revise your facts to make this into a proper murder of opportunity, not a manhunt and execution you twist into a fake murder of opportunity..
fact: the area Asmodean was in is one used by the Queen and guests. It leads to this nice and quiet inner courtyard she uses, where Aviendha, Mat and Asmodean were. The rooms Rand has picked for himself look over thsi courtyard. The point is: this is not a work area for servants or workers, it's an area of the palace for the masters. Servant places in that area would be located with service to master rooms in mind (ie: discreet but close to the rooms where service is needed).
fact: the corridor from the courtyard Asmodean used was one in which Rahvin and Rand fought.
fact: At no point did Rahvin and Rand ended up in a dead end with a small door. They kept moving from corridor to corridor until Rahvin suddenly went into TAR. The point is: the small door can't be located at the end of a corridor, and the corridor won't be a long doorless stretch either. The small door was along the way in one of the side walls, and the corridor keeps going beyond it. The corridor may lead to the throne room where Rand surprised Rahvin, in fact we know</i it does because of the balefire marks, but we don't know if it does so directly, or you have to turn here and there and take other corridors before you get in that area, and how far it is from the courtyard.
fact: We don't know where Asmodean was heading from the courtyard. Maybe he did, but he didn't think about it. He didn't know the palace well, and was most likely going back in the way he came out to the courtyard. Was he returning to Rand, going back to his rooms (neither would be on the ground floor in Caemlyn), just taking a walk? We don't know. What we know is that the small door wasn't his destination, he didn't even know it existed, and was never looking for something like that! He spotted it all of a sudden as he progressed in the corridor, seing it his mind made the immediate connection to servants (because it's a small door in comparison to the masters' doors around), and to a servants' pantry (which may or not be there.. we don't know Asmodean was right, though the smallness of the door in a palace is a valid indication this door most likely leads to a servant area1/room or another). That door made him think he could use a drink. He stopped, took the last steps to the door, opened it, stepped inside and there, he saw his killer.
So, is it conceivable that someone who saw Asmodean go back in could have guessed where he really went (as opposed to his final destination he never reached and we don't know about, if he even had a precise aim in mind)? No, absolutely not. These corridors lead to many places, and this one is confirmed not to be a deadend. Someone observing Asmodean would make the exact same guesses we can make: that he was heading back to his rooms, or to Rand, or was taking a stroll in the palace. We don't even know if the room he entered really lead to a pantry (Maybe not. Food and drink service in Caemlyn is shown as being done from the kitchens later on, drinks and food being carried in the formal rooms before the guests arrive. It doesn't mean the floor's footmen etc. don't have pantries to await calls or rest, however), and no one goes to the servant pantries normally. People ring a servant who comes to you. Asmodean entered that door because most of the servants had fled and no one was in attendance to serve anyone. To figure out the room Asmodean entered, someone would have to be right behind him in the last seconds before he saw the small door, went to it and opened it. It's very unlikely someone was behind him. That person would have to come from one of the side rooms or the courtyard, to begin with, and with the palace empty and thus silent, Asmodean would have noticed footsteps behind or ahead of him anyway (and before you mention that, Slayer wears boots - not slippers or mocassins - he can't be that stealthy), especially since there'd be a lot of echo in an empty high ceilinged palace (we even know for a fact there is, much later Elayne and co. hear the echo of Slayer's footsteps as he clumsily runs away from the spot he was spying on them).
This is all irrelevant anyway: Jordan said Asmodean was a "road kill" and a murder of opportunity. No one has been following him, waiting to ambush him and kill him. If Jordan wanted us to deduce that, he would have had Asmodean notice a noise and look around at some point in his strolling, before he opened the door. The scene is written quite clearly so we understand right away Asmodean wasn't heading for this location all along but at the last minute chose to open that small door. The person inside the room wasn't waiting for him, the person was surprised by him in this room, but that person was faster to react than he was (unlike Asmodean, the person had a few precious seconds' warning that someone was opening the door and getting in the room).
It doesn't mean you have the wrong killer, but most definitely you have the circumstances of the murder all wrong, because your theory as it stands contradicts the facts laid out by the text.
You want Slayer to be the killer, start by finding believable reasons for him to have been in that room where Asmodean surprised him, and revise your facts to make this into a proper murder of opportunity, not a manhunt and execution you twist into a fake murder of opportunity..
An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds
27/05/2010 12:12:50 PM
- 2509 Views
I hate to say it, as I love this mystery....
27/05/2010 03:01:08 PM
- 1248 Views
I have a theory on the killer that doesn't involve Slayer...
28/05/2010 03:41:23 AM
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In addition to Etzel's comments
28/05/2010 09:08:45 PM
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I'm pretty sure the Myrdraal that killed Caradin's family was a Proto-version of SH *NM*
28/05/2010 09:56:58 PM
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Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin *NM*
29/05/2010 04:40:15 PM
- 576 Views
Re: Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin
29/05/2010 09:16:01 PM
- 1046 Views
Far-fetched, IMO
27/05/2010 04:01:05 PM
- 1359 Views
I don't want Slayer to be the killer
27/05/2010 04:33:06 PM
- 1040 Views
The way you twist things, it certainly seems so!
27/05/2010 05:07:22 PM
- 1128 Views
Bah, hogwash!
27/05/2010 05:17:37 PM
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Re: Bah, hogwash!
27/05/2010 08:14:16 PM
- 1072 Views
The point is...
28/05/2010 08:38:49 AM
- 1069 Views
Yes, but Fain is a far cry from your average non-channeler
28/05/2010 12:01:44 PM
- 1121 Views
As is Slayer
28/05/2010 12:25:07 PM
- 994 Views
There is no evidence of this at all
28/05/2010 12:32:37 PM
- 975 Views
Yeah, the evil guys don't manage to harm the good guys
28/05/2010 12:38:57 PM
- 939 Views
You always twist the quotes to make them say what Jordan didn't intend to say....
28/05/2010 02:20:09 PM
- 1028 Views
None of this explains how Slayer had opportunity that others didn't
27/05/2010 05:12:48 PM
- 1164 Views
We often see...
27/05/2010 05:33:19 PM
- 1035 Views
I just keep coming back to Slayer needs wild explanations while Graendal is more obvious
27/05/2010 05:52:13 PM
- 1122 Views
Indeed
28/05/2010 08:39:14 AM
- 971 Views
Well...
28/05/2010 10:19:46 AM
- 1022 Views
Re: Well...
28/05/2010 12:20:15 PM
- 1027 Views
I adressed the points regarding the Fain-comparsion above
28/05/2010 12:35:08 PM
- 972 Views
your Slayer theory is ridiculously complex!
28/05/2010 12:37:08 PM
- 1011 Views
It just requires to combine some clues from the first 5 books & some common sense
28/05/2010 12:44:10 PM
- 963 Views
Re: Well...
28/05/2010 02:27:40 PM
- 1139 Views
No...
28/05/2010 03:04:41 PM
- 1059 Views
let's try this another way
28/05/2010 03:14:07 PM
- 1050 Views
The main problem with Graendal is...
28/05/2010 05:31:09 PM
- 976 Views
Re: The main problem with Graendal is...
28/05/2010 09:20:27 PM
- 1114 Views
my first thought was it was Sammael or Graendal. Come LoC it was clear to me that it was Graendal.
28/05/2010 09:44:38 PM
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RJ used the expression...
29/05/2010 08:17:08 AM
- 953 Views
be careful ... your stretching far enough you might hurt yourself
29/05/2010 01:12:29 PM
- 1063 Views
Re: I don't want Slayer to be the killer
27/05/2010 07:47:40 PM
- 992 Views
Couple of questions
27/05/2010 09:53:05 PM
- 1018 Views
Be'lal managed to get out NO!
27/05/2010 10:08:33 PM
- 884 Views
Hmmm
27/05/2010 10:27:55 PM
- 1002 Views
I don't think you can actually cut BF weaves
27/05/2010 10:45:34 PM
- 905 Views
Hmmm I wonder about that.
27/05/2010 10:58:46 PM
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I think it would be impossible for someone to react that quickly
27/05/2010 11:13:01 PM
- 1066 Views
Of course you do. Trying to deny it is just silly. Everyone knows your bias. *NM*
27/05/2010 08:43:18 PM
- 529 Views
No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too
27/05/2010 09:08:48 PM
- 1024 Views
Re: No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too
28/05/2010 08:25:46 AM
- 997 Views
But look...
28/05/2010 09:01:12 AM
- 1032 Views
if there are clues in TFoH I find it hard to believe that Slayer is involved
28/05/2010 12:29:40 PM
- 939 Views
The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course
28/05/2010 12:32:13 PM
- 987 Views
Re: The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course
28/05/2010 12:35:22 PM
- 1001 Views
RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM*
28/05/2010 12:40:23 PM
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Re: RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM*
28/05/2010 12:52:30 PM
- 915 Views
Yeah, I know. *NM*
28/05/2010 02:51:32 PM
- 981 Views
Yet Slayer is no where to be seen between his vanishing after TSR and the start of WH
28/05/2010 03:09:44 PM
- 1000 Views
???
28/05/2010 02:19:17 PM
- 969 Views
Of course RJ implied that. You should read his quotes about Asmo! *NM*
28/05/2010 02:52:32 PM
- 985 Views
Here is what RJ said EDIT
28/05/2010 03:29:19 PM
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Indeed
28/05/2010 05:18:35 PM
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Re: Indeed
28/05/2010 05:26:38 PM
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But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM*
28/05/2010 05:33:02 PM
- 941 Views
Re: But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM*
28/05/2010 07:05:27 PM
- 897 Views
Re: Far-fetched, IMO
02/06/2010 07:34:58 PM
- 1104 Views
Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? *NM*
02/06/2010 11:13:04 PM
- 649 Views
Re: Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot?
19/06/2010 12:59:54 AM
- 807 Views
Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken
19/06/2010 03:30:37 AM
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Re: Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken
24/06/2010 09:03:18 AM
- 1211 Views
The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book
26/06/2010 02:32:26 PM
- 714 Views
Re: The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book
01/07/2010 10:13:53 PM
- 1155 Views
Lanfear killed Asmo.....
28/05/2010 05:05:55 AM
- 913 Views
Doesn't make sense
28/05/2010 11:09:14 AM
- 947 Views
Sorry, Lanfear did it.....
29/05/2010 03:47:44 AM
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Considering that RJ didn't even necessarily want to reveal it, it was pretty random, yeah. *NM*
29/05/2010 08:25:54 AM
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Death is Moridin "when death took him"; need I say more *NM*
28/05/2010 10:07:14 AM
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There is a quote that refutes this...
28/05/2010 10:22:12 AM
- 999 Views
He could have recognized Moridan.....due to the True Power in his eyes.
29/05/2010 03:49:49 AM
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No other Forsaken immediately recognizes Moridin as Ishy because of the saa. *NM*
29/05/2010 08:26:44 AM
- 598 Views
RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever
28/05/2010 08:55:01 PM
- 1018 Views
Re: RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever *NM*
28/05/2010 09:24:41 PM
- 691 Views
I think I found an RJ quote that kills the Slayer theory
29/05/2010 01:57:20 PM
- 908 Views
If Slayer is actually the killer...
29/05/2010 02:20:32 PM
- 973 Views
Please, RJ would do as he always had and immediately RAFOd a question like that
29/05/2010 02:26:10 PM
- 932 Views
Well, I don't think so.
29/05/2010 02:43:28 PM
- 947 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer.
06/06/2010 05:44:05 AM
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If Slayer never met Asmo in the books he could not have killed him
06/06/2010 12:46:40 PM
- 837 Views
But Slayer could have met Asmo, when he was killed.. *NM*
06/06/2010 01:06:01 PM
- 879 Views
Directly contradicts what RJ said "they did not meet in the books"
06/06/2010 02:51:50 PM
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Not "before" the murder. *NM*
06/06/2010 06:03:34 PM
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Re: Not "before" the murder. *NM*
06/06/2010 10:25:16 PM
- 833 Views
He answers the question, if they met "before" the murder. *NM*
07/06/2010 07:18:50 AM
- 641 Views
not if it didn't happen in the books
07/06/2010 12:08:34 PM
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I think Asmo's killer was as surprised as he.
29/05/2010 09:26:03 PM
- 955 Views
That's what I've always thought as well.
29/05/2010 10:06:56 PM
- 870 Views
You know, there's no direct proof suggesting that Asmo's killer was "surprised".....
01/06/2010 04:04:56 AM
- 885 Views
except the Author said it was a murder of opportunity
01/06/2010 11:13:14 PM
- 912 Views
That is simply false.
02/06/2010 10:00:27 AM
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RJ stated it was a murder of opportunity ... I never said "only"
02/06/2010 11:49:23 AM
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Of course, it is false
02/06/2010 12:13:11 PM
- 938 Views
Here are the quotes
02/06/2010 12:39:29 PM
- 876 Views
As said, those quotes simply don't support that the murder was basically just an unplanned accident. *NM*
02/06/2010 02:14:29 PM
- 645 Views
I disagree. It's pretty much black and white that the opportunity/timing is the key factor to
02/06/2010 02:39:03 PM
- 799 Views
Actually I like it because it fits Slayer better than Graendal, as pointed out. *NM*
02/06/2010 02:51:24 PM
- 485 Views
that makes no sense at all *NM*
02/06/2010 02:53:28 PM
- 697 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer.
06/06/2010 05:47:13 AM
- 973 Views
Well...
06/06/2010 10:46:13 AM
- 963 Views
Logic
06/06/2010 02:53:27 PM
- 911 Views
You're falling into Etzelian logic there...
06/06/2010 03:25:30 PM
- 916 Views
I'm just being a smartass *NM*
06/06/2010 03:36:00 PM
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That's not anyone's logic, this argument is simply utter nonsense. *NM*
07/06/2010 12:08:05 PM
- 952 Views
just like thinking Slayer was the killer is
07/06/2010 12:09:34 PM
- 895 Views
Yeah...
07/06/2010 12:21:31 PM
- 964 Views
thinking the top assassin killed someone when it's been stated over and over
07/06/2010 12:56:48 PM
- 951 Views
Those quotes pretty much show that Graendal is careful... *NM*
07/06/2010 01:03:26 PM
- 879 Views
No they show that she is deliberate!
07/06/2010 01:12:29 PM
- 978 Views
That are just semantics
07/06/2010 01:36:12 PM
- 1046 Views
and you think it's obvious that Slayer was the premier Shadow assassin prior to WH?
07/06/2010 02:06:47 PM
- 932 Views
As I explained you several times, I can see why RJ thought it is obvious, yes...
07/06/2010 02:17:01 PM
- 902 Views
Why wouldn't Graendal head to Caemlyn at that point?
07/06/2010 02:36:24 PM
- 986 Views
And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin?
07/06/2010 02:54:33 PM
- 1022 Views
Re: And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin?
07/06/2010 03:01:14 PM
- 987 Views
You should re-read the scene where Moghedien tells Nynaeve about it...
07/06/2010 03:12:55 PM
- 954 Views
That's a different thing than Moghedien saying the plan was canceled
07/06/2010 03:15:32 PM
- 1049 Views
That is essentially what Moghedien said.
07/06/2010 03:33:35 PM
- 823 Views
um no it's not
07/06/2010 04:17:04 PM
- 902 Views
It's told after that...
07/06/2010 04:46:31 PM
- 872 Views
No it doesn't. It tells us that Rahvin, just like all the others had a side plan in place
07/06/2010 04:55:43 PM
- 1054 Views
Yeah...
07/06/2010 05:17:59 PM
- 952 Views
Funny I feel the same way you do ...
07/06/2010 05:25:48 PM
- 942 Views
Ah, whatever...
07/06/2010 05:35:22 PM
- 844 Views
We are on the exact same page
07/06/2010 05:42:48 PM
- 923 Views