Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that.
Datakim Send a noteboard - 27/05/2010 12:21:53 AM
For whatever reason, Moghedien never commanded Myrdraal in any of her schemes, so it is possible that she didn't have any under her direct control due to her tactics.
The reason I brought up the Myrddraal is that apparently they have to obey the forsaken.
Rj said this:
Week 2 Question: Is the mark that Alviarin received from Shaidar Haran the same as that the Forsaken received from the Dark One? If so, is she now a Forsaken, or some sort of lesser Chosen?
Robert Jordan Answers: The mark that Alviarin received from Shaidar Haran was not the same as that given to the Forsaken, though it shares one function: Shadowspawn will recognize her as belonging to the Dark One. They will not obey her as they will the Forsaken, however, but she doesn't have to worry about one trying to kill her, either. She is not any sort of lesser Chosen. You might think of it more like the tattoo some people get put inside the ear of their dog, an identification so others will know who the dog belongs to as soon as they see it.
RJ confirms that the Forsaken carry a mark from the DO that causes shadowspawn to obey them. So if Moghedien managed to get a myrddraal near, it would obey her despite the collar around her neck.
Also, the Myrdraal still would not know what to do to release the a'dam. It is a rather precise technique, remember? Moghedien didn't know how to do it, and she would need to tell a Myrdraal precisely how to manipulate the collar.
Yes and no. It is true that releasing the a'dam is tricky, but it is certainly not impossible. Lots of people in the series have figured out how to release the thing after fiddling with it for a while. Myrddraal, unlike trollocs, are intelligent enough that they could likely work on the problem themselves and release Moghedien without any instructions. Yes, they would need time to experiment but given that time I think they could do it.
Finally, how would she get the message to them? It seemed to me that the Forsaken don't have a mystical connection to the Shadowspawn they commanded - they literally had to give a command and/or order the Shadowspawn to do certain things, which may have meant Travelling to the Blight where they are bred. I doubt Moghedien would want to appear where any one of the Forsaken could be hanging around in her condition. She most likely didn't even want the Dark One to know. Semirhage was in a less precarious position and even then, an agent of the Dark had to be sent to her, possibly because her mission had failed and her situation had been revealed to Shaiadar Haran by Elza.
This is the biggest problem. You are correct that while any shadowspawn would obey Moghedien due to her Forsaken mark, she would actually have to find a way to contact one first.
However if she could enter TAR, this would not be an impossible challenge. First of all, I wonder if myrddraal could be pulled to TAR? They are more humanlike than trollocs so maybe. Is there any mention anywhere of myrddraal dreaming? If this is possible then the problem is solved right here.
However Moghedien must also know about darkfriends, some who are in position to make contact with shadowspawn. She could order one of those human darkfriends to deliver a message to a myrddraal to go to her location. Myrddraal have that shadowjump trick so going to Moghedien once they had the message would not be an issue.
The only problem there is that every Aes Sedai in the camp would sense the presence of the myrddraal which would be a big problem since it would severely limit the time the Myrddraal had to figure out how to release Moghedien.
Help me out with a TAR problem
26/05/2010 08:10:07 PM
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Re: Help me out with a TAR problem
26/05/2010 08:28:34 PM
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No I don't mean that
26/05/2010 08:37:27 PM
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Re: No I don't mean that
26/05/2010 08:39:42 PM
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Re: No I don't mean that
26/05/2010 08:52:22 PM
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I'm inclined to think the a'dam stops Dream Walking
26/05/2010 09:26:20 PM
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Re: I'm inclined to think the a'dam stops Dream Walking
26/05/2010 09:49:24 PM
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And it seems the woman wearing the bracelet has strange dreams too
26/05/2010 10:54:26 PM
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I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that.
26/05/2010 11:39:14 PM
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Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that.
26/05/2010 11:50:56 PM
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Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that.
27/05/2010 12:06:55 AM
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Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that.
27/05/2010 12:21:53 AM
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Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that.
27/05/2010 02:58:36 PM
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I disagree
27/05/2010 03:21:05 PM
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Re: I disagree
27/05/2010 07:08:41 PM
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If she could enter TAR she could drag an AS in with her, compell them and make them take it off
27/05/2010 07:14:26 PM
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Re: If she could enter TAR she could drag an AS in with her, compell them and make them take it off
27/05/2010 09:21:11 PM
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I think we are saying pretty much the same thing here
27/05/2010 09:24:37 PM
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We are close to the same idea, but different in where we think her ability will stop.
27/05/2010 09:37:28 PM
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But channelling is not a requirement to enter TAR
27/05/2010 08:31:21 AM
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The a'dam affects things in Channelers other than the ability itself
27/05/2010 01:58:34 PM
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I don't agree.
27/05/2010 03:02:08 PM
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you are misreading me I think
27/05/2010 03:11:50 PM
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Re: you are misreading me I think
27/05/2010 06:30:29 PM
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That's the point.
27/05/2010 06:57:35 PM
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Re: That's the point.
27/05/2010 07:10:25 PM
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Re: That's the point.
27/05/2010 07:16:49 PM
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Interesting idea.
26/05/2010 09:38:04 PM
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There may be a clue to this in the descriptions of astral projection in comics and psychic studies
26/05/2010 11:59:42 PM
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we've seen this fail
26/05/2010 08:38:06 PM
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So I think this disproves it
26/05/2010 08:49:55 PM
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Is that really true?
26/05/2010 08:53:45 PM
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Sid, I made some edits, but really nothing's certain. Look again, pls. *NM*
26/05/2010 08:55:30 PM
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I would generally agree with your edits
26/05/2010 08:57:32 PM
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yes and no
26/05/2010 09:31:53 PM
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Re: yes and no
26/05/2010 09:55:46 PM
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5+ entries for "Book 4-6 Thing " now... Funny that we wrote slight variations simultaneously
26/05/2010 10:24:03 PM
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well Moghedien somehow managed to create a whole Body for Birgitte
26/05/2010 10:36:45 PM
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Could Rahvin turn Rand into a fishman if he was just there in Spirit?
26/05/2010 10:19:05 PM
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You have to enter TAR in the Flesh to leave it in the Flesh.
26/05/2010 10:06:02 PM
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I think this is possible.
26/05/2010 11:28:51 PM
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Dream gateway!
27/05/2010 12:05:31 AM
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I think the problem is that you can only channel Spirit through your T'A'R form
27/05/2010 03:05:13 PM
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if you dream yourself into T'A'R then you're just a creation of your own mind
27/05/2010 12:02:38 AM
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if that was true you couldn't die in T'A'R
27/05/2010 12:08:10 AM
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I don't think anybody has said this before...
27/05/2010 04:01:28 AM
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Your real body can only channel Spirit.
27/05/2010 05:25:08 AM
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Yes, but you need real One Power to affect the real world.
27/05/2010 06:46:21 AM
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Yes, I agree with that, but I was mostly just replying to your question about sleep-channeling.
27/05/2010 06:56:18 AM
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The only real situation we have to compare...
27/05/2010 06:59:51 AM
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That's a weird situation.
27/05/2010 07:09:21 AM
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Well, yes. The Birgitte situation can't be compared directly to Sidious'
27/05/2010 08:01:38 AM
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Re: The only real situation we have to compare...
27/05/2010 07:11:45 PM
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If something that didn't exist before existed after...
27/05/2010 08:58:55 PM
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Re: If something that didn't exist before existed after...
28/05/2010 02:09:01 PM
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Actually I don't think so..
28/05/2010 02:31:27 PM
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Plus, their ability to affect reality comes from the magic of the Horn of Valere.
28/05/2010 06:14:21 PM
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TAR constructs cannot leave it.
27/05/2010 04:57:12 PM
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Not just constructs ... anything reflected in TAR cannot leave it ...
27/05/2010 10:05:37 PM
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I agree with those saying that if you don't physically enter TAR...
29/05/2010 09:32:40 PM
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