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Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. Datakim Send a noteboard - 27/05/2010 12:21:53 AM
For whatever reason, Moghedien never commanded Myrdraal in any of her schemes, so it is possible that she didn't have any under her direct control due to her tactics.


The reason I brought up the Myrddraal is that apparently they have to obey the forsaken.

Rj said this:


Week 2 Question: Is the mark that Alviarin received from Shaidar Haran the same as that the Forsaken received from the Dark One? If so, is she now a Forsaken, or some sort of lesser Chosen?

Robert Jordan Answers: The mark that Alviarin received from Shaidar Haran was not the same as that given to the Forsaken, though it shares one function: Shadowspawn will recognize her as belonging to the Dark One. They will not obey her as they will the Forsaken, however, but she doesn't have to worry about one trying to kill her, either. She is not any sort of lesser Chosen. You might think of it more like the tattoo some people get put inside the ear of their dog, an identification so others will know who the dog belongs to as soon as they see it.


RJ confirms that the Forsaken carry a mark from the DO that causes shadowspawn to obey them. So if Moghedien managed to get a myrddraal near, it would obey her despite the collar around her neck.


Also, the Myrdraal still would not know what to do to release the a'dam. It is a rather precise technique, remember? Moghedien didn't know how to do it, and she would need to tell a Myrdraal precisely how to manipulate the collar.


Yes and no. It is true that releasing the a'dam is tricky, but it is certainly not impossible. Lots of people in the series have figured out how to release the thing after fiddling with it for a while. Myrddraal, unlike trollocs, are intelligent enough that they could likely work on the problem themselves and release Moghedien without any instructions. Yes, they would need time to experiment but given that time I think they could do it.



Finally, how would she get the message to them? It seemed to me that the Forsaken don't have a mystical connection to the Shadowspawn they commanded - they literally had to give a command and/or order the Shadowspawn to do certain things, which may have meant Travelling to the Blight where they are bred. I doubt Moghedien would want to appear where any one of the Forsaken could be hanging around in her condition. She most likely didn't even want the Dark One to know. Semirhage was in a less precarious position and even then, an agent of the Dark had to be sent to her, possibly because her mission had failed and her situation had been revealed to Shaiadar Haran by Elza.


This is the biggest problem. You are correct that while any shadowspawn would obey Moghedien due to her Forsaken mark, she would actually have to find a way to contact one first.

However if she could enter TAR, this would not be an impossible challenge. First of all, I wonder if myrddraal could be pulled to TAR? They are more humanlike than trollocs so maybe. Is there any mention anywhere of myrddraal dreaming? If this is possible then the problem is solved right here.

However Moghedien must also know about darkfriends, some who are in position to make contact with shadowspawn. She could order one of those human darkfriends to deliver a message to a myrddraal to go to her location. Myrddraal have that shadowjump trick so going to Moghedien once they had the message would not be an issue.

The only problem there is that every Aes Sedai in the camp would sense the presence of the myrddraal which would be a big problem since it would severely limit the time the Myrddraal had to figure out how to release Moghedien.
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Help me out with a TAR problem Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:10:07 PM 1444 Views
Re: Help me out with a TAR problem Datakim - 26/05/2010 08:28:34 PM 880 Views
No I don't mean that Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:37:27 PM 898 Views
Re: No I don't mean that darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 08:39:42 PM 764 Views
Re: No I don't mean that Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:52:22 PM 674 Views
I'm inclined to think the a'dam stops Dream Walking darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 09:26:20 PM 624 Views
Re: I'm inclined to think the a'dam stops Dream Walking Datakim - 26/05/2010 09:49:24 PM 606 Views
And it seems the woman wearing the bracelet has strange dreams too darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 10:54:26 PM 703 Views
Re: I'm inclined to think the a'dam stops Dream Walking HyogaRott - 27/05/2010 06:46:42 PM 604 Views
I think it would be the latter RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 07:11:17 PM 711 Views
I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/05/2010 11:39:14 PM 628 Views
Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. Datakim - 26/05/2010 11:50:56 PM 591 Views
Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 12:06:55 AM 617 Views
Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. Datakim - 27/05/2010 12:21:53 AM 648 Views
Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 02:58:36 PM 660 Views
I disagree darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 03:21:05 PM 625 Views
Re: I disagree RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 07:08:41 PM 676 Views
If she could enter TAR she could drag an AS in with her, compell them and make them take it off darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 07:14:26 PM 718 Views
Re: If she could enter TAR she could drag an AS in with her, compell them and make them take it off RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 09:21:11 PM 816 Views
I think we are saying pretty much the same thing here darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 09:24:37 PM 649 Views
We are close to the same idea, but different in where we think her ability will stop. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 09:37:28 PM 646 Views
*nods* *NM* darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 11:29:10 PM 287 Views
But channelling is not a requirement to enter TAR BlackAdder - 27/05/2010 08:31:21 AM 593 Views
The a'dam affects things in Channelers other than the ability itself darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 01:58:34 PM 777 Views
I don't agree. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 03:02:08 PM 650 Views
you are misreading me I think darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 03:11:50 PM 795 Views
Re: you are misreading me I think RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 06:30:29 PM 694 Views
Re: you are misreading me I think HyogaRott - 27/05/2010 06:42:36 PM 705 Views
That's the point. darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 06:57:35 PM 677 Views
Re: That's the point. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 07:10:25 PM 640 Views
Re: That's the point. darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 07:16:49 PM 637 Views
We may never know! RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 09:21:48 PM 677 Views
I would be very surprised if it came up in the books darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 09:25:29 PM 635 Views
Interesting idea. Datakim - 26/05/2010 09:38:04 PM 597 Views
Fascinating Idea #4 on this thread. Thanks, Sid! *NM* newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 10:31:48 PM 306 Views
Channeler heal thyself Datakim - 26/05/2010 11:40:25 PM 722 Views
There may be a clue to this in the descriptions of astral projection in comics and psychic studies RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/05/2010 11:59:42 PM 660 Views
Re: Help me out with a TAR problem cmoorejr - 26/05/2010 08:35:49 PM 639 Views
Doesn't work entyti - 26/05/2010 08:37:40 PM 852 Views
we've seen this fail darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 08:38:06 PM 603 Views
I don't mean that Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:39:32 PM 594 Views
I'd say you either die or just wake up if you tried that darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 08:40:31 PM 598 Views
As far as I know... Etzel - 26/05/2010 08:38:36 PM 633 Views
This could work DomA - 26/05/2010 08:43:21 PM 816 Views
Thanks Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:51:17 PM 639 Views
Re: Thanks DomA - 26/05/2010 09:12:10 PM 601 Views
So I think this disproves it newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 08:49:55 PM 887 Views
Is that really true? Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:53:45 PM 669 Views
Sid, I made some edits, but really nothing's certain. Look again, pls. *NM* newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 08:55:30 PM 314 Views
I would generally agree with your edits Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:57:32 PM 632 Views
yes and no darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 09:31:53 PM 552 Views
Re: yes and no Datakim - 26/05/2010 09:55:46 PM 584 Views
5+ entries for "Book 4-6 Thing " now... Funny that we wrote slight variations simultaneously newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 10:24:03 PM 579 Views
well Moghedien somehow managed to create a whole Body for Birgitte darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 10:36:45 PM 639 Views
Could Rahvin turn Rand into a fishman if he was just there in Spirit? newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 10:19:05 PM 605 Views
And I agree with your response newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 09:49:00 PM 606 Views
You have to enter TAR in the Flesh to leave it in the Flesh. krassos - 26/05/2010 10:06:02 PM 695 Views
Re: You have to enter TAR in the Flesh to leave it in the Flesh. darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 10:57:06 PM 597 Views
The short answer to Birgitte krassos - 27/05/2010 02:37:13 AM 599 Views
I think this is possible. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/05/2010 11:28:51 PM 650 Views
Dream gateway! Datakim - 27/05/2010 12:05:31 AM 595 Views
I think the problem is that you can only channel Spirit through your T'A'R form RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 03:05:13 PM 575 Views
if you dream yourself into T'A'R then you're just a creation of your own mind Jim - 27/05/2010 12:02:38 AM 552 Views
aren't we all? *NM* newyorkersedai - 27/05/2010 12:04:08 AM 264 Views
if that was true you couldn't die in T'A'R Foxhead - 27/05/2010 12:08:10 AM 567 Views
Why not? krassos - 27/05/2010 03:41:10 PM 708 Views
if it's just a creation of your mind? Foxhead - 27/05/2010 04:03:29 PM 643 Views
is it possible to Travel in T'A'R when dreaming? Foxhead - 27/05/2010 12:06:57 AM 593 Views
I don't think anybody has said this before... Fanatic-Templar - 27/05/2010 04:01:28 AM 681 Views
Your real body can only channel Spirit. Gher - 27/05/2010 05:25:08 AM 684 Views
Yes, but you need real One Power to affect the real world. Fanatic-Templar - 27/05/2010 06:46:21 AM 664 Views
Yes, I agree with that, but I was mostly just replying to your question about sleep-channeling. Gher - 27/05/2010 06:56:18 AM 584 Views
The only real situation we have to compare... Fanatic-Templar - 27/05/2010 06:59:51 AM 577 Views
That's a weird situation. Gher - 27/05/2010 07:09:21 AM 634 Views
Well, yes. The Birgitte situation can't be compared directly to Sidious' Fanatic-Templar - 27/05/2010 08:01:38 AM 641 Views
Re: The only real situation we have to compare... HyogaRott - 27/05/2010 07:11:45 PM 676 Views
If something that didn't exist before existed after... Fanatic-Templar - 27/05/2010 08:58:55 PM 619 Views
Re: If something that didn't exist before existed after... HyogaRott - 28/05/2010 02:09:01 PM 693 Views
Actually I don't think so.. darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 02:31:27 PM 582 Views
Plus, their ability to affect reality comes from the magic of the Horn of Valere. Fanatic-Templar - 28/05/2010 06:14:21 PM 516 Views
your dream self couldn't exit TAR... Onarishma - 27/05/2010 06:39:26 AM 638 Views
TAR constructs cannot leave it. fionwe1987 - 27/05/2010 04:57:12 PM 795 Views
Not just constructs ... anything reflected in TAR cannot leave it ... Shishka - 27/05/2010 10:05:37 PM 738 Views
Re: Help me out with a TAR problem HyogaRott - 27/05/2010 06:58:18 PM 585 Views
shucks everyone already thought of this... *NM* HyogaRott - 27/05/2010 07:08:50 PM 274 Views
problem solved... sort of? lummox - 28/05/2010 02:48:13 AM 710 Views
I agree with those saying that if you don't physically enter TAR... TaskmasterJack - 29/05/2010 09:32:40 PM 641 Views
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