There may be a clue to this in the descriptions of astral projection in comics and psychic studies
RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 26/05/2010 11:59:42 PM
If you could do it, there would quite literally be two different versions of you in existence at the same time. The "ethereal" you and the real you. That just boggles the mind with all the completely bizarre things that could happen as a result.
Nothing bizarre at all around it; we already know of at least one instance where a soul is disconnected from the body - the mindtrap.
It seems to me that the situation will be similar to what psychics call "entering the astral plane". In most popular conceptions or descriptions of psychic projection you project your consciousness from your body, so that you can see your body sleeping, but you yourself can travel around as a psychic entity through the real world unable to touch or move things.
The difficulty may be in returning to your body without suffering a debilitating physical shock or getting lost or trapped in the World of Dreams by a nightmare, which would destroy you while your flesh lived on without a mind or a soul to direct it.
This may be why Moghedien was terrified when they confronted two male channelers in T'A'R fighting with the One Power while in the flesh - the damage would be both spiritual and physical at the same time, making a Dreamer encountering a person's body in T'A'R
doubly threatened especially if the other person had Dreamwalking training. If Rahvin successfully turned Rand into a pig (I forget which animal it was) in T'A'R while Rand was there in the flesh, where does the illusion end? Rand not only felt himself trapped in a nightmare, but he was also physically changing - he subjected his reality to a stronger and more skilled opponents' and was almost defeated rather quickly.
This did bring up another idea though. What if you did this in reverse? What if a dreamer entered TAR in the flesh while tired, and then went to sleep while he was in TAR itself? I mean if you are there in the flesh you would presumably carry all your fleshy problems including tiredness so you could go to sleep. But since you were already in the world of dreams, where would you go? Would you go nowhere? Or in this case, would you appear in the same TAR in ethereal form and be able to mess around with your sleeping body (which was also in TAR).
I'd like to think that your spirit form can't interact with your body in any way. The main problem with TAR is that you derive neither rest nor sustenance from it - thus a Dreamer has to make themselves ready to access T'A'R and then take themselves out of that state into a normal sleep cycle to get rest. Egwene, for example, was frequently very tired upon waking after spending hours waiting for Nynaeve or Elayne because she wasn't getting real sleep. Even if your body was in T'A'R, the stress seems to be resulting from the astral projection needed to Dreamwalk. You could very well imagine yourself back into your body after being in T'A'R and find yourself doubly exhausted because your body and mind didn't get actual rest. Food doesn't sustain you in T'A'R either, because it isn't real and you could starve to death while Dreaming yourself in front of a huge feast.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
Help me out with a TAR problem
26/05/2010 08:10:07 PM
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Re: Help me out with a TAR problem
26/05/2010 08:28:34 PM
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No I don't mean that
26/05/2010 08:37:27 PM
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Re: No I don't mean that
26/05/2010 08:39:42 PM
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Re: No I don't mean that
26/05/2010 08:52:22 PM
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I'm inclined to think the a'dam stops Dream Walking
26/05/2010 09:26:20 PM
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Re: I'm inclined to think the a'dam stops Dream Walking
26/05/2010 09:49:24 PM
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And it seems the woman wearing the bracelet has strange dreams too
26/05/2010 10:54:26 PM
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I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that.
26/05/2010 11:39:14 PM
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Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that.
26/05/2010 11:50:56 PM
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Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that.
27/05/2010 12:06:55 AM
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Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that.
27/05/2010 12:21:53 AM
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Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that.
27/05/2010 02:58:36 PM
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I disagree
27/05/2010 03:21:05 PM
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Re: I disagree
27/05/2010 07:08:41 PM
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If she could enter TAR she could drag an AS in with her, compell them and make them take it off
27/05/2010 07:14:26 PM
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Re: If she could enter TAR she could drag an AS in with her, compell them and make them take it off
27/05/2010 09:21:11 PM
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I think we are saying pretty much the same thing here
27/05/2010 09:24:37 PM
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We are close to the same idea, but different in where we think her ability will stop.
27/05/2010 09:37:28 PM
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But channelling is not a requirement to enter TAR
27/05/2010 08:31:21 AM
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The a'dam affects things in Channelers other than the ability itself
27/05/2010 01:58:34 PM
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I don't agree.
27/05/2010 03:02:08 PM
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you are misreading me I think
27/05/2010 03:11:50 PM
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Re: you are misreading me I think
27/05/2010 06:30:29 PM
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That's the point.
27/05/2010 06:57:35 PM
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Re: That's the point.
27/05/2010 07:10:25 PM
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Re: That's the point.
27/05/2010 07:16:49 PM
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Interesting idea.
26/05/2010 09:38:04 PM
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There may be a clue to this in the descriptions of astral projection in comics and psychic studies
26/05/2010 11:59:42 PM
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we've seen this fail
26/05/2010 08:38:06 PM
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So I think this disproves it
26/05/2010 08:49:55 PM
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Is that really true?
26/05/2010 08:53:45 PM
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Sid, I made some edits, but really nothing's certain. Look again, pls. *NM*
26/05/2010 08:55:30 PM
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I would generally agree with your edits
26/05/2010 08:57:32 PM
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yes and no
26/05/2010 09:31:53 PM
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Re: yes and no
26/05/2010 09:55:46 PM
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5+ entries for "Book 4-6 Thing " now... Funny that we wrote slight variations simultaneously
26/05/2010 10:24:03 PM
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well Moghedien somehow managed to create a whole Body for Birgitte
26/05/2010 10:36:45 PM
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Could Rahvin turn Rand into a fishman if he was just there in Spirit?
26/05/2010 10:19:05 PM
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You have to enter TAR in the Flesh to leave it in the Flesh.
26/05/2010 10:06:02 PM
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I think this is possible.
26/05/2010 11:28:51 PM
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Dream gateway!
27/05/2010 12:05:31 AM
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I think the problem is that you can only channel Spirit through your T'A'R form
27/05/2010 03:05:13 PM
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if you dream yourself into T'A'R then you're just a creation of your own mind
27/05/2010 12:02:38 AM
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if that was true you couldn't die in T'A'R
27/05/2010 12:08:10 AM
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I don't think anybody has said this before...
27/05/2010 04:01:28 AM
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Your real body can only channel Spirit.
27/05/2010 05:25:08 AM
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Yes, but you need real One Power to affect the real world.
27/05/2010 06:46:21 AM
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Yes, I agree with that, but I was mostly just replying to your question about sleep-channeling.
27/05/2010 06:56:18 AM
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The only real situation we have to compare...
27/05/2010 06:59:51 AM
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That's a weird situation.
27/05/2010 07:09:21 AM
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Well, yes. The Birgitte situation can't be compared directly to Sidious'
27/05/2010 08:01:38 AM
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Re: The only real situation we have to compare...
27/05/2010 07:11:45 PM
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If something that didn't exist before existed after...
27/05/2010 08:58:55 PM
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Re: If something that didn't exist before existed after...
28/05/2010 02:09:01 PM
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Actually I don't think so..
28/05/2010 02:31:27 PM
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Plus, their ability to affect reality comes from the magic of the Horn of Valere.
28/05/2010 06:14:21 PM
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TAR constructs cannot leave it.
27/05/2010 04:57:12 PM
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Not just constructs ... anything reflected in TAR cannot leave it ...
27/05/2010 10:05:37 PM
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I agree with those saying that if you don't physically enter TAR...
29/05/2010 09:32:40 PM
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