You truly are somehow oblivious to the entire point of one of the largest subplots in the entire series.
I don't know how to respond to that. I really don't.
Reread the entire Tower plot and check the number of references to politicking for control of either Halls, useless hierarchical crap like Shemerin's demotion, the outrage over stuff like Elaida disbanding the Blue Ajah, and contrast it to actually important stuff.
The entire purpose of the Tower split was that Aes Sedai cared more about their own squabbling than the end of the world. The three important points mentioned - Tarmon Gai'don, the Seanchan and the Black Tower are perfect examples that I am right!
Tarmon Gai'don: The division of the Tower has allowed Rand, the Dragon Reborn, to operate without always having to deal with Aes Sedai trying to control him. Because they are too busy squabbling over their position in the Aes Sedai hierarchy. You claim that Aes Sedai don't care about squabbling (because apparently you consider accusations of systemic support of world-breaking abominations, mass murderers and international criminals to be 'squabbling' because Tarmon Gai'don is a greater priority, but the series actively proves you wrong. The Tower has been ignoring The Dragon and the Shadow because of their priority on squabbling! Heck, this is exactly why Aran'gar and Mesaana were working to maintain the split!
The Seanchan: Again, read The Gathering Storm. You will be surprised to find that in that book, the Tower is attacked by the Seanchan, and they are completely unprepared for it, because, guess what? They were dealing with more important things to them, namely infighting.
The Black Tower: The Rebels do absolutely nothing about the Black Tower, and Elaida sends one disastrous mission to pacify it. Aside from that, you have Tsutama Rath operating in secret to try to deal with the Black Tower because she considers it a greater priority than Tower squabbling. This would be great for your point, except that the reason she has to use secrecy in this is exactly because her priorities were not shared by the rest of the Tower!
Frankly, that you think that squabbling was not a priority for Aes Sedai is staggering. And that you apparently think that accusations of supporting False Dragons is 'squabbling' is also ridiculous. And that you insist that the Red Ajah doesn't care about this demonstrates disappointing wilful ignorance. I hate quoting Cannoli, but read the damn books, this is pretty explicitly refuted in The Extra Bit.
I don't know how to respond to that. I really don't.
Reread the entire Tower plot and check the number of references to politicking for control of either Halls, useless hierarchical crap like Shemerin's demotion, the outrage over stuff like Elaida disbanding the Blue Ajah, and contrast it to actually important stuff.
The entire purpose of the Tower split was that Aes Sedai cared more about their own squabbling than the end of the world. The three important points mentioned - Tarmon Gai'don, the Seanchan and the Black Tower are perfect examples that I am right!
Tarmon Gai'don: The division of the Tower has allowed Rand, the Dragon Reborn, to operate without always having to deal with Aes Sedai trying to control him. Because they are too busy squabbling over their position in the Aes Sedai hierarchy. You claim that Aes Sedai don't care about squabbling (because apparently you consider accusations of systemic support of world-breaking abominations, mass murderers and international criminals to be 'squabbling' because Tarmon Gai'don is a greater priority, but the series actively proves you wrong. The Tower has been ignoring The Dragon and the Shadow because of their priority on squabbling! Heck, this is exactly why Aran'gar and Mesaana were working to maintain the split!
The Seanchan: Again, read The Gathering Storm. You will be surprised to find that in that book, the Tower is attacked by the Seanchan, and they are completely unprepared for it, because, guess what? They were dealing with more important things to them, namely infighting.
The Black Tower: The Rebels do absolutely nothing about the Black Tower, and Elaida sends one disastrous mission to pacify it. Aside from that, you have Tsutama Rath operating in secret to try to deal with the Black Tower because she considers it a greater priority than Tower squabbling. This would be great for your point, except that the reason she has to use secrecy in this is exactly because her priorities were not shared by the rest of the Tower!
Frankly, that you think that squabbling was not a priority for Aes Sedai is staggering. And that you apparently think that accusations of supporting False Dragons is 'squabbling' is also ridiculous. And that you insist that the Red Ajah doesn't care about this demonstrates disappointing wilful ignorance. I hate quoting Cannoli, but read the damn books, this is pretty explicitly refuted in The Extra Bit.
Stop being hysterical and debate like an adult.
The rebellion against Elaida was not due to the lie, it was merely a falsehood Siuan later created and expanded upon to further her own cause to bring down her rival, and to gain the dubious support of the rebel Hall. You've encapsulated the entire White Tower split under this, which is blatantly untrue. Do you think you're dealing with unintelligent people, or do you seriously think I'm less aware of the series than you are?
We're talking about the present. You're going back to the earlier books and referring to those as part of your evidence of 'squabbling'. The split occured in book 4, and the attack on the Black Tower a few books later. The later books show the opinion of the Red Ajah on this - they find the lie scandalous but they're more concerned with the Black Tower (not invasion - but bonding) and the Dragon Reborn. Pevara and Tsutama openly speak about this.
I don't know why you've gone off on such a childish tangent about everything. You mentioned that it's about time the Reds mentioned the lie i.e. now that the Tower is reunified. I mentioned that the Reds are much more worried about other events that are taking place. Bringing up what happened six books ago makes no sense, and acting like I'm unfamiliar with the plot is extremely insulting.
Wheel of Time board admin
Fan of Lanfear
Fan of Lanfear
Character discussion 2 : Siuan Sanche and Leane Sharif
09/05/2010 06:01:33 PM
- 5021 Views
The "Shrinking of Siuan" after stilling destroyed my initial awe for the Amyrlin positition...
09/05/2010 07:07:09 PM
- 1048 Views
That's total nonsense...
10/05/2010 08:34:08 AM
- 1096 Views
No, THAT's total nonsense...
10/05/2010 09:27:41 AM
- 969 Views
You seem to deal in bad analogies...
10/05/2010 05:14:47 PM
- 970 Views
You've got an irritating manner about you. No wonder you find Aes Sedai so believable.
10/05/2010 05:53:00 PM
- 826 Views
Hello Pot. I'm Kettle.
10/05/2010 06:41:58 PM
- 837 Views
Hello Kettle. I'm Frying pan *NM*
11/05/2010 03:43:20 PM
- 480 Views
Hello Frying pan. I'm Skillet. *NM*
12/05/2010 11:50:33 PM
- 493 Views
Re: Hello Skillet, I'm a baking sheet can't we all have some cookies and get along? *NM*
17/05/2010 05:17:24 PM
- 435 Views
All of those people EARNED their positions by being the best, not a compromise candidate for office!
12/05/2010 04:36:36 AM
- 1049 Views
Re: The "Shrinking of Siuan" after stilling destroyed my initial awe for the Amyrlin positition...
12/05/2010 04:23:07 AM
- 910 Views
Re: The "Shrinking of Siuan" after stilling destroyed my initial awe for the Amyrlin positition...
12/05/2010 06:33:37 AM
- 872 Views
They deserved to be deposed and stilled, I think ...
10/05/2010 02:47:35 PM
- 1007 Views
"They"?
10/05/2010 05:16:54 PM
- 905 Views
Good point ...
10/05/2010 06:45:52 PM
- 1037 Views
I don't know if I agree with this
11/05/2010 03:19:20 PM
- 970 Views
I like Leane, and respected Siuan until RJ mauled her character
10/05/2010 05:55:08 PM
- 859 Views
She was probably the sacrificial lamb in place of Moiraine
10/05/2010 06:25:39 PM
- 815 Views
The deck was certainly stacked against Siuan from the very beginning
11/05/2010 02:44:05 PM
- 865 Views
This is a main reason I hope Siuan and Leanne get their full strength restored
11/05/2010 02:25:31 PM
- 923 Views
I don't really agree
11/05/2010 05:35:44 PM
- 848 Views
I see your point and like I said, I think there are certainly other resolutions to the story line
11/05/2010 06:22:44 PM
- 828 Views
I'm still annoyed that Siuan is not going to face the consequences of lying about the Reds.
12/05/2010 05:18:47 AM
- 907 Views
In Egwene's defense, it would be hypocritical of her to bring that up after profiting from it
12/05/2010 05:59:57 AM
- 881 Views
Oh, I never expected Egwene to do something about this.
12/05/2010 06:12:35 AM
- 781 Views
Well she's off forging a relationship with the Asha'man - you know, useful stuff? *NM*
12/05/2010 06:39:04 AM
- 540 Views
Are you claiming that Pevara was the only woman in the entire Red Ajah to be offended by that lie? *NM*
12/05/2010 07:15:40 AM
- 482 Views
The Reds aren't petty
12/05/2010 04:52:50 PM
- 757 Views
Are you kidding?
12/05/2010 06:14:46 PM
- 878 Views
Unless of course there is truth to it
17/05/2010 01:50:27 PM
- 885 Views
There is none.
17/05/2010 07:09:59 PM
- 879 Views
Uhhh?
17/05/2010 08:45:15 PM
- 790 Views
...
17/05/2010 11:08:05 PM
- 930 Views
Re: ...
18/05/2010 05:25:33 AM
- 863 Views
Seriously, are you kidding? [EDIT]
18/05/2010 06:06:01 AM
- 847 Views
*sigh*
18/05/2010 12:30:43 PM
- 906 Views
So, you're not kidding.
18/05/2010 09:12:27 PM
- 811 Views
Re: So, you're not kidding.
18/05/2010 10:25:19 PM
- 847 Views
Re: So, you're not kidding.
19/05/2010 12:41:09 AM
- 940 Views
On the minority thing...
18/05/2010 04:26:15 PM
- 881 Views
That's exactly the problem.
18/05/2010 08:51:45 PM
- 749 Views
Really do you have a quote supporting the fact that there has never been a FD supported by a Red?
18/05/2010 09:39:31 PM
- 883 Views
Of course..., I'll provide it as soon as you prove you're not a Nazi serial child rapist.
18/05/2010 10:06:23 PM
- 718 Views
why so pissy?
19/05/2010 03:34:22 PM
- 877 Views
Sorry.
20/05/2010 04:16:43 AM
- 843 Views
Re: Sorry.
20/05/2010 08:19:13 AM
- 709 Views
Re: Sorry.
20/05/2010 08:33:54 AM
- 908 Views
Re: Sorry.
20/05/2010 01:26:47 PM
- 751 Views
Interesting.
20/05/2010 07:34:45 PM
- 808 Views
Re: Interesting.
21/05/2010 05:07:07 AM
- 829 Views
No worries! I was just caught off guard by your response... sorry for your stress! *NM*
20/05/2010 10:04:35 PM
- 582 Views
There may be one explanation...
13/05/2010 10:04:46 PM
- 794 Views
That doesn't make sense.
13/05/2010 10:54:53 PM
- 920 Views
it was about more than just male channelers
18/05/2010 09:50:14 PM
- 909 Views
Yes, that's true.
18/05/2010 10:07:22 PM
- 926 Views
I'm also certain the majority of the Red had no clue/involvement
20/05/2010 10:24:54 PM
- 825 Views
That's also true.
20/05/2010 10:29:11 PM
- 811 Views
Okay I'm leaving you alone ... you clearly don't want to continue
20/05/2010 10:31:01 PM
- 812 Views
AS shrunk after stilling; Siuan and Leane became huge.
12/05/2010 10:50:50 PM
- 811 Views
No, I don't think so
13/05/2010 05:10:03 AM
- 749 Views