Yes, but most of those examples you give are from different time periods and genres. I was trying to think of possible reasons (besides the most obvious one that I didn't state in my original post, on purpose) why for modern-day epic fantasies, those huge tomes don't sell as well in translation.
I picked names you would recognize (I doubt if I said Senécal, Ruffin, Pelletier and co. this would ring a bell for you), but time hasn't changed this much. We have plenty of big door stoppers, in all genres (at least, what Americans fit in genre lit.. more on that below). We don't have Jordan-style writers, but HUGE historical sagas, with comparable quality of writing and comparable fanbases, are often on the top of the best-sellers's lists.
No, those names wouldn't mean much to me, in large part because my nascent reading abilities in French
And historical novels are a different beast all together, one that in some respects might be more odious to me as a historian than any epic fantasy 
Vonarburg's books are just as big as WOT or ASOIAF. Her readers are avid for scope and details, pretty much the same trend ongoing in the US (though as I said, her Fantasy works are most comparable to Kay's, her SF to the likes of LeGuin a bit).
Vonarburg I've at least heard about for the past half-dozen years or so. I really need to get around to reading her works sometime in the future.
Senécal's books are just as big as the really big Stephen Kings.
Pelletier's last book (in two volumes), the big best-seller of the year, is twice as big as a WOT book.
What was it about?
What people enjoyed most in translation in recent years? Really big books.
That I believe would be a major factor.
It's such a "foreign" genre that we don't even have a name for it. We use the English word Fantasy.
I get this sense that the "foreignness" is something that most Romance language-speaking countries share to some degree or another, although Spain and to a lesser extent Argentina are exceptions to a degree.
There's a massive difference in how we approach genre lit, though.
You (in particular, beyond your own culture) have a very broad view of speculative fiction. I've seen you bring pretty much anything from Homer to Borges to the New Weird to pop Fantasy and SF under that umbrella, heck, I've seen some people managing to classify historical novels like the Baroque Cycle into that genre, and Eco's books.
It's broader than that. I see various strands of "speculative fiction" as being but subsets of material cultures and how those subsets are interwoven (or not) into the fabric of their respective societies (and how they influence other societies) is what intrigues me. If anything, I find "genre" to be but an amusing and mutable category and nothing fast and firm, like most others do.
That's really not the case here. To begin with, spec fic for us is a narrow, fairly rigid tradition of science fiction dealing with anticipation, occasionally of the more philosophical or allegoric tendency. Secondly, we just don't classify books into genre nearly as much as you do.
Except I don't "classify" as much as I toy around with associations. Unless the "you" is a general you referencing the Anglo-American markets?
A lot of what you consider to be related to spec fic sells really well, but is considered literature without further distinction as to "genre". That includes a very great deal of your Spaniards and South Americans.
And to a degree, those labels are applied here in the US as well. But one of the fun things about getting to select stories for consideration for BAF 4 is just how many of these stories are not associated with genre presses. In fact, some of the editors of the lit journals that I contacted for review materials seemed ecstatic about the possibilities to be found within the BAF series and how malleable literary classifications can be
That's true in English as well, mind you. Susannah Clarke wasn't sold as genre lit, no more than Marquez or Zafon, or Borges and definitely not Eco. And no one has thought to fit Harry Potter into a genre either. To us, it's youth literature dealing with magic and sorcerers, in the tradition of "literature fantastique" and coming of age stories. It won't get the label Fantasy.
Actually, it was marketed as genre as well as lit fic here; I attended one of her booksignings and recall that quite well. Zafón has also received some genre marketing, including the limited-edition of The Shadow of the Wind being published by the genre press Subterranean Press. Maybe things are just different in both Canadian language markets?
Many sub-genres don't even have a french equivalent, though there are books written in French you'd definitely put in those genres. "Epic Fantasy", "high fantasy", "alternate history", "hard SF" just to name a few.
Or maybe I wouldn't - I don't trust simple classifications
Vonarburg's last series is Fantasy in an alternate history setting, in the vein of Kay. You'd most definitely classify that as spec fic as among other things it's a big "what if" exploration of how different Europe would have been if Christianithas had for dual messiahs Jesus and his twin sister.
Sounds similar in cross-genre elements as what I've encountered with Javier Negrete's works. I still maintain that if translated, his Alexander the Great and the Eagles of Rome would sell nicely, if pitched as a historical "what if" novel with a few other intriguing elements.
But couldn't it be argued that it's different styles or "favors" of genre fiction that sell better in some countries compared to others?
Yes, definitely, though in the specific case you discuss, I would tell you the long series of big books by the usual suspects (Brooks, Jordan, Martin, Goodkind) are all available in French and they're the ones you find in bookstores. Wolfe, Miéville, Monette and co. and much of the newcomers you won't. Either they're not translated at all (I read no anglo-saxon lit in translation, so I'm no expert, I'm just curious enough to look at the shelves sometimes to see what's there and not), or they're strictly special order titles.
Interesting about Miéville and Wolfe, not surprising at all about Monette, since her series did not sell very well here in the US.
I'm much more familiar with the Argentine, Mexican, and Spanish markets and it seems most of the "genre" works there written in Spanish tend to differ significantly from what is popular in Anglo-American markets. Maybe the same is true in Quebec?
Written locally? Oh yes, that differs a lot. It's closer to the Spanish tradition, if anything. Pretty much everything written in what you'd put in the genre(s) belong not to the mainstream of SF/Fantasy (we don't really associate the two at all, by the way) but to the various fringes and cross-genres categories.
Which actually might explain some of my interest in those writings.
Most of the "real" Fantasy that I'm aware of is written for kids. Mythology based hero's journeys and company - anything from Tad Williams to Jordan, or even the fake-history stuff à la Martin, it's all in the youth lit. category, not only that but it's widely acknowledged as an anglo-saxon inspired genre.
Interesting, since I didn't perceive that sort of marketing for some of the Spanish-language works that I've encountered. Maybe I just haven't looked hard enough, though.
It's not really considered a genre for adults, period. Except for Tolkien, and even then. I know there's some written, but it's not very popular books, and most would belong more with the "new weird" or SF than strictly Fantasy.
That seems to be almost an exceptional attitude, based on what I'm aware of in the Spanish and Portuguese-language markets.
Bakker is available in French and I seem to recall reading that Erikson is as well. Whether or not books published in France would be available in Quebec is an entirely different matter, though.
Pretty much every book published in France is distributed here, though if Bakker and Erikson are translated, they're among those the bookstores here won't stock, which suggests their French readership in translation is likely fairly confidential.
Probably so. Perhaps Quebec's take on genre lit is more conservative than that found in France?
But from what I recall of the Portuguese and Brazilian markets, what's popular in Spanish isn't necessarily going to be popular in Portuguese-language editions.
I don't know much about what Portuguese reads. My Portuguese neighbour used to borrow my Fantasy books, but you can't derive a picture from one woman
True
I'll take your word for it
And it's not much, as I barely read a few pages here and there. My impression was confirmed by people at Wotmania who have read whole books in French, though. It's mistranslated in many places, and overall the French is bad, really bad. Apparently the translation isn't consistent from book to book.
Sounds like the English translations of Sapkowski's works to date.
Martin's books aren't that bad. I read a few chapters of the first book once. What I couldn't bear is the French flavour to the world building the translation added. Martin was somewhat careful to make faux-medieval, but not faux English medieval. That's pretty much gone in translation. The languages have evolved differently, though. It's harder in French to avoid weird cultural connotations when using the necessary vocabulary.
Eco wrote a book about a related issue, Mouse or Rat?, if I recall.
I know the Spanish translation of Bakker's first novel is good and that the Spanish translation of Sapkowski's Geralt stories is superior to the English translation, but I can believe those to be the exceptions rather than the rule.
I don't know in Spanish. In French the days are gone when excellent and enthusiastic writers translated their favourite American books as a sideline. Boris Vian translated some of Vonnegut notably, and others from that circle (Queneau and co.) were also huge SF fans. Herbert got translated mostly by Abadia, a SF writer in his own right and a huge fan.
I know the author/fan translations do continue in Brazil, as a friend/author of mine, Fábio Fernandes, has translated A Clockwork Orange and Neuromancer into Brazilian Portuguese in recent years. I would imagine that Fábio did a fairly good job of it, since he does translations regularly in addition to teaching creative writing and writing SF shorts and now novels in both Portuguese and English.
But that's no longer how it's done today (except for Kay, who is translated in Canada).
Is it because the production costs are that much higher to have a 600 page MMPB compared to two 300 page books? Or is there something that tells the publishers that larger-sized books don't sell as well? That's what I'm puzzling over now.
I don't think there's an universal answer to that.
Split books are more common than they are in English (the situations like the Tad Williams PB getting split was really exceptional, IRRC), but mostly in the lower sales categories. The biggest Stephen Kings aren't split, not Susanah Clarke, nor those really huge American best-sellers. Or Millenium. The big SF books like Dune aren't either, though as a result they aren't cheap (50$ or so).
Yeah, it's always the price factor that seems to loom large over all this.
Locally, it's due to the fact the only genre publisher releases mostly paperbacks (not the oversized ones you call trade, but the mass market PB). They split everything above 700-800 pages. I'm pretty sure it's a binding issue mostly, as they always release the volumes together, collected or not.
In France it's not the same. The usual suspects are published first in trade PB, then in mass market PB. We have plenty of huge books in the mainstream market, but the Fantasy publishers split the books. I suspect buying the rights of those books isn't cheap, and the translation costs a lot of money for such long books. I also suspect their print runs are too small to afford such long books in one volume. Combine all this and the price tags would be so high no one would purchase those books, especially since the demographics run even more to teenagers and students than in the US (they aren't cheap as it is, a bit more expensive than comparable mainstream novels.)
From what I recall, it can be twice the acquiring costs of a book written in the language in which it'll be published in that region. So yeah, that and the limited print runs will run up the costs quite a bit, especially for those 200-500 print runs.
All readers I know are very put off by the fact the books are split, so I hardly imagine it's an issue of readers not wanting large books. I imagine the worst is that not only they split the books, but they release each volume over a long period of time.
True. Just look at how the SOIAF fanbase has reacted to the perceived "split" issue over the past five years
You have some of that going too. Take Dumas for example. His Vicomte de Bragelonne is typically split in four books (with individual titles) in English, his Balsamo in three and so on. I can only imagine it's marketing decision or a way to increase profits, as much bigger paperbacks than that are sold in English. Dickens's bigger books aren't split by Penguin. Even on the much smaller French market in PB they split Dumas' books in two volumes, no more, and they're all available as "omnibus". They don't split Dickens's, for that matter.
Four? I've never seen it as anything more than three, unless Twenty Years After is included. At least my Oxford World Classics edition has three following that book. Those are, with annotations, around 700-800 pages each.
And you know Larry... reading in at least two languages is sort of exceptional for Americans. That's not really true here, and even less so in Europe. Just judging from my extended personal circle, I more than a little suspect in a lot of markets, especially in Europe and Québec, a very great deal of American Fantasy lovers just don't bother with translations and read those books in English, and more so now than years ago. You'd have to look at the foreign sales of Orbit (and some of Tor) to get the real picture of sales for Jordan, Goodkind, Brooks and most of the "big names" in those countries. They sell more than in looks, only not in the local language.
Five languages, but point taken. I tend to buy works in their native languages whenever it's convenient, in part because I want to practice my language skills and in part because I don't trust the translators as much (a very ironic belief, considering something that will be announced officially in a few months ) as I do the native writers. That is likely a major factor in the lack of non-Anglo SF/F being available even in non-Anglo markets.
) as I do the native writers. That is likely a major factor in the lack of non-Anglo SF/F being available even in non-Anglo markets.Sounds likely.
I remember what made me suspect a lot of Fantasy readers locally prefer to read it in English. My favorite (big) French bookstore sells about 90% of French books and 10% in English (more than that in non fiction) and their clientele is typically bilingual (understand by that bilingual French people, and bilingual anglos who are there to shop for French books only). A great deal of what they stock in English falls into two genres: crime/thrillers and Fantasy, the rest being the current mainstream best sellers that they stock for a while in both languages, especially those the more influential critics have just trashed the translation of. 
That doesn't surprise me, since I used to do the same sort of shopping when I lived in the Miami metro area 7-9 years ago.
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie
Je suis méchant.
Je suis méchant.
Interesting discussion on the series, for the few here who can understand it
- 13/05/2010 11:15:27 PM
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Speaking for my own culture...
- 14/05/2010 01:04:54 AM
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Nice counterpoints
- 14/05/2010 01:54:07 AM
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Re: Nice counterpoints
- 14/05/2010 10:53:33 PM
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But some translations are actually quite good
- 14/05/2010 11:38:19 PM
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Re: But some translations are actually quite good
- 15/05/2010 02:15:11 AM
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Have they finally released Monaldi & Sorti in the original Italian now?
- 15/05/2010 09:51:36 AM
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- 15/05/2010 09:51:36 AM
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Re: Have they finally released Monaldi & Sorti in the original Italian now?
- 15/05/2010 05:27:58 PM
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- 15/05/2010 05:27:58 PM
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Russia loves that sort of crap.
- 14/05/2010 03:59:52 PM
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After reading Alexey Pehov's first translated work, I can believe that 
*NM*
- 14/05/2010 04:12:07 PM
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*NM*
- 14/05/2010 04:12:07 PM
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You're just linking that because of the compliments they're making about you, admit it.
- 14/05/2010 09:00:35 PM
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- 14/05/2010 09:00:35 PM
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I did say I was made aware of this because of a link to my comments
- 14/05/2010 09:09:34 PM
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- 14/05/2010 09:09:34 PM
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