Re: The Voice is a talent like travelling for Aes Sedai. The capitalized Sing is for Aiel.
Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 11/05/2010 07:49:02 PM
It is in this general thread, genius.
So? Your comment was completely irrelevant to anything being discussed, I don't care if whatever it could have been relevant to was close or far, you were off target either way.
We know they sang. We don't know what song they sang. Last weekend at mother's day my neice was singing ring a round the posies... She however wasn't doing the little dance. Later she sang the Hokey pokey song. Again she didn't do the dance. Sometimes you sing a song that has a certain purpose, without doing that purpose because it accomplishes something you want. In her case it made her happy to sing it. In the Aiel's case it was a reminder of all that they and the Aes Sedai were.
Okay?
'Lew Therin turned, seeming unsurprised. “Ah, a guest. Have you the Voice, stranger? It will soon be time for the Singing, and here all are welcome to take part.”'
- The Eye Of The World, Prologue
This clearly implies a seasonal event. It will soon be time for the Singing... If they Aiel just helped generally, then it wouldn't be such an ordeal. Take out the word Singing and replace it with "harvest". It fits. Now take out the world Singing and replace it with "Listening to CD's". It seems like a very odd way to say, "Wanna listen to some CD's?". However, it could be a scene right out of a book about the Purtian settlements, saying it's soon harvesttime, want to help? No one says, "It's soon time to hang up some pictures." Think about it.
- The Eye Of The World, Prologue
This clearly implies a seasonal event. It will soon be time for the Singing... If they Aiel just helped generally, then it wouldn't be such an ordeal. Take out the word Singing and replace it with "harvest". It fits. Now take out the world Singing and replace it with "Listening to CD's". It seems like a very odd way to say, "Wanna listen to some CD's?". However, it could be a scene right out of a book about the Purtian settlements, saying it's soon harvesttime, want to help? No one says, "It's soon time to hang up some pictures." Think about it.
Or it could be replaced by dinner. "Ah, a guest. Have you eaten, stranger? It will soon be time for dinner, and here all are welcome to take part." Or sleep. Or any number of things. Obviously if you replace it with something seasonal, it sounds seasonal, just as if you replace it with something that isn't, it doesn't. As someone in this thread once said, "You may REALLY REALLY want it to be true. But s a wise man once said, "Wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which one fills up first." Let's stick with the facts here."
The Song of Saidin??? You think that counts as a separate song??? I think not. It is a way to describe the allure of saidin and the way it feels in you. That is like claiming the songs Rand played on his flute count.
Quite possible. Or perhaps not. It did have quite an effect on Rand's swordfigthting in The Great Hunt. Of course, it has nothing to do with the Da'shain, but it is an example of music having powers other than growing crops, assuming Rand's increased ability was in fact due to the Song.
As for Treesinging. I have to think Treesinging is a form of the Ogier version of the Seed Song. It makes the trees grow. Do you think the Ogier developed this talent to make beds? I think not. They used to to make things grow. Notice their love to tend the gardens of the great trees. THey are also called Ogier Gardeners. It is a part of them. Perhaps over the last 3000 years they have made some slight changes to their part of the song such that they can pull out pieces of wood from trees, or perhaps that was a side benefit of their part of the song all along. I will concede we don't know that point. Also, the Ogier were violent back then. Wouldn't they have a Fightsinging song too? Or why do they only treesing? Also why only the Nym who are clearly a conduit of the Song? Why not other constructs for other purposes... You are assuming too many new ideas and powers must exist for your theory. Plain and simple.
You're the one assuming. Treesinging has been shown in the series, and its effect is to shape and strengthen wood, unlike seed singing which made plants grow faster and healthier. Treesinging can be performed by Ogier alone, seed singing needs Ogier, humans and Nym in combination. It is a fact that they are different. They might be related, but we don't know that. You just assume so to fit your preconceived conclusion that there is only one magical Song.
Actually if you won't give up at all on the Song of Saidin, I will meet you half way and grant the possibility that the Song of Saidin might have something to do with all of this. It could be how the channelling and the Seed Singing all fit together. THe Voice could connect to the Song of Saidin. Perhaps Aes Sedai with the Voice can channel Saidin to the tune of the Song of Saidin which allows the Aiel, who can, to Sing and be part of the seed singing ceremony.
There is no evidence for any of this. Incidentally, I like how you ignored the example of Da'shain singing to enhance channeling.
I don't need to provide proof. You do. I am saying they sang a song. I suggest it might be the seed song. It could also be Kumbaya for all we know. I picked a song I know the Aiel knew, and that didn't change what we know about the Randland world. You however picked a song that multiplied their powers, changing what we know about Randland. Again, Think about it. You're LITERALLY putting words in the Aiel's mouths. Take a breath, step back and realize I might have a point here, friend.
You said "it was the seed song, plain and simple." If you are now retracting that statement and admitting that you don't know what they were singing, we are in agreement.
We STILL don't know the Aiel sang more than one Song. We know from the evidence they sang a special song during the seed singing that had "magically effects" on the crops. We know they sometimes sang at other times. We do NOT know they had similar "magical effects" at those times. Unless you're assuming that everytime an Aiel sang it had "magical effects". So, if that is the case, what particular magic properties do the Aiel "death durges" have? The songs the tinkers sang around the fire??
Again, I like how you're ignoring that the Da'shain Aiel's Singing is specifically mentioned to have enhanced channeling. I assume nothing. You are ignoring facts detrimental to your predetermined conclusion.
The Hawking quote is apt. It fits your statements. You are the one incorporating things into this that are assumptions based off of a few causal references that have no implications that they are involving any special abilities...
I am assuming nothing. I am speculating that given what we know, the Da'shain Singing might have had a variety of uses we do not know of. You, on the other hand, have decided that you already know everything there is to know on the subject - despite being evidently wrong - and are trying to shoehorn seed singing into situations that have absolutely nothing to do with crop growth.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter
Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
~Master Splinter
Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
The Song--how it worked and why it was lost--OGIERS ARE NOT ARTIFICIAL
06/05/2010 03:25:18 AM
- 1834 Views
there is no Song. None. Nada. Zippo. Zilch. Bupkis.
06/05/2010 04:22:38 AM
- 1145 Views
There is a song, and maybe Rand will return it to them.
12/05/2010 07:31:32 AM
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I don't feel like going into the Song nonsense again. As for the Tinkers/Jenn...
12/05/2010 11:51:34 PM
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They DID fail the Aes Sedai; at least in their own eyes.
16/05/2010 04:59:38 AM
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it seems more likely that the sin is giving up the Way of the Leaf
19/05/2010 11:14:38 PM
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because Rand was the very first person ever to see that at Rhuidan?
13/05/2010 05:04:40 AM
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I'm quite sure the Ogier are not artificial
06/05/2010 11:32:17 AM
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I thought RJ said something about the Ogier being from another planet?
06/05/2010 02:44:21 PM
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This can be inferred from discussion of the Book of Translation *NM*
10/05/2010 10:04:05 PM
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The song was "Hey Soul Sister" by Train. It was lost when the last ter'angreal Ipod broke.
06/05/2010 02:41:42 PM
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According To The Big Book Of Bad Art
07/05/2010 11:25:20 PM
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Re: According To The Big Book Of Bad Art
08/05/2010 08:29:39 PM
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Re: According To The Big Book Of Bad Art
09/05/2010 01:48:49 AM
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--Ogier--artificially constructed and clearly bad--killing/violence .....
08/05/2010 03:07:55 AM
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Re: --Ogier--artificially constructed and clearly bad--killing/violence .....
10/05/2010 09:59:42 PM
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How is there "No Song?"
09/05/2010 12:44:22 AM
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Re: How is there "No Song?"
09/05/2010 01:38:36 AM
- 1066 Views
Oh, ok. But...
09/05/2010 05:26:54 AM
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I doubt it.
09/05/2010 06:38:39 PM
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LTT asked it because he was bonkers
10/05/2010 05:22:06 AM
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I agree.
11/05/2010 12:35:43 AM
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That's not how his insanity was portrayed.
11/05/2010 02:23:08 AM
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If it weren't a Seed Song, why're the Nym needed? if not needed why did they forget how to sing?
11/05/2010 04:48:12 AM
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From where did you get the idea that Nym were needed?
11/05/2010 05:11:15 AM
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I got the part about the Nym from a sub thread in this post. One you commented on. Keep up man.
11/05/2010 05:42:14 AM
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My only post in other subthreads is a joke response to File Leader, I think?
11/05/2010 06:52:22 AM
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The Voice is a talent like travelling for Aes Sedai. The capitalized Sing is for Aiel.
11/05/2010 01:41:10 PM
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Re: The Voice is a talent like travelling for Aes Sedai. The capitalized Sing is for Aiel.
11/05/2010 07:49:02 PM
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