Thanks - Edit 1
Before modification by Terez at 08/05/2010 08:01:11 AM
A few thoughts.
The idea of Mat's Medallion going from Mat -> Elayne -> Alivia -> Gawyn seems a little too convoluted, to me. A more fitting scenario, I think, would be for Mat to give it to Elayne (as you suggested) and then for Gawyn to steal it from her (after overhearing what it does) to go confront Rand.
Yes, Alivia needs to be involved in Rand's death somehow, but to say that Gawyn looting Alivia's corpse somehow qualifies as "Alivia helping Rand die" just doesn't wash, for me.
The idea of Mat's Medallion going from Mat -> Elayne -> Alivia -> Gawyn seems a little too convoluted, to me. A more fitting scenario, I think, would be for Mat to give it to Elayne (as you suggested) and then for Gawyn to steal it from her (after overhearing what it does) to go confront Rand.
Yes, Alivia needs to be involved in Rand's death somehow, but to say that Gawyn looting Alivia's corpse somehow qualifies as "Alivia helping Rand die" just doesn't wash, for me.
Why not? I think that we has assigned various interpretations, but I don't believe that Min's words necessitate anything premeditated. However, there is still a possibility that Alivia might be the one to tell or show Gawyn the medallion and how it works - she would probably have no idea that Gawyn wants to kill Rand - and he might actually kill her to get it from her (in fact, I have been thinking lately that this is likely - that Gawyn will shoot her in the back with an arrow or some such to get it from her). I really doubt Alivia would just give it to him, but even that is a possibility.
The reason my mind goes this way with Alivia is because (as I said in other comments that I'm not sure you read), it encompasses every aspect of her character. We only know so much about Alivia: She hates the Seanchan, especially the sul'dam for making her a slave for four hundred years. She thinks like a child in some ways, very blunt and to the point with little sophistication, and she has a fondness for children's games that might extend to toys. She was a legend at the Battle of Shadar Logoth, fighting by herself while everyone else was in groups, and she was loaded with toys (ter'angreal) then. She took on Cyndane, still the strongest of the female Forsaken, and made it out alive.
The only other thing we know about her is that she is going to help Rand die. How else can all of these things be tied together?
If Gawyn is indeed going to kill Rand (as seems certain, via the Arthurian parallels, and the Jesus parallels, and the foreshadowing), then the number of ways in which Alivia might help is limited. You seem to agree that Gawyn will probably need the medallion to face Rand and manage to kill him - this is foreshadowed by the scene where Bashere throws a dagger at Rand's heart in 'Lion on the Hill' - and the simple fact that Gawyn will need a ter'angreal to kill Rand ties him to Alivia immediately. The fact that we know via Arthur that Rand will die at the Battle of Caemlyn - and the fact that we know this battle will likely be the final confrontation between Randland and Seanchan - further ties what we know about Alivia into the picture.
There are many ways that Alivia could help Rand die, but I will probably hang on to this one unless someone comes up with something else that is backed up by anything resembling evidence. I don't believe we have been given much to work on concerning the Alivia mystery, but if we have been given anything at all, then my theory fits.
I also think Mat's betrayal of Rand (if indeed it does occur) needs to be more blatant than this.
Indeed, it's not a real betrayal. Mat is paralleled to Judas, though, and if he's not going to contribute in some way to Rand's death, then the parallel falls flat.
To continue the Judas parallel, though, for something closer to a real betrayal, I have another idea.
When Rand dies, I think that all of his bonds and links will be severed - at the very least, he'll no longer be linked to Moridin or bonded to Alanna; his bond with his women might possibly survive even his death, but either way they will be in the know when he is resurrected, and they'll bond him again - but I think the ta'veren color swirls will likely regenerate as soon as Rand is revived. There will only be a select few people that have any idea that Rand is alive - his women, maybe Egwene and Tuon and of course Nynaeve - but Mat and Perrin will know via the color swirls. This makes a good opportunity for Mat to actually 'betray' Rand - he could also do this by blowing the Horn and showing that Rand is not there, for another Jesus parallel, with the women at the tomb - and it also gives Perrin an opportunity to deny Rand three times. But there is foreshadowing for this later betrayal as far back as Baerlon, when Mat blabs about the Trollocs in the baths, and of course, Mat's words at the Portal Stone were "I would never tell anyone about [you]."
Lastly, I like your idea that the "Seanchan woman with the sword" from Egwene's dream is Tuon with Justice, and even the idea that Egeanin is the one to convey Justice from Rand's dead body to Tuon seems plausible enough. But there is no way that scenario has anything to do with the "who draws it out shall follow after" prophecy. The first 2 lines in that prophecy certainly refer to Rand putting Callandor back into the heart of the Stone (in TSR) to hold the Tairen's hearts, and therefore the whole prophecy must refer to Callandor, not Justice. I don't see how the first two lines could possibly refer to Rand stabbing Gawyn. Whose hearts would he be holding, in that case?
Why are you so certain that the first two lines refer to Callandor? They fit, because Rand tried to make them fit. He wasn't able to make the last two lines fit, though...just the first two.
As for how it will hold their hearts...it hasn't happened yet, so it seems strange to assume that it could not.
I do have an idea on that, though: like Herid Fel said: 'belief and order give strength'. The Seanchan will provide the order, but where will the belief come from?
Rand's biggest problem is that people do not believe in him. They seem to think that he should just get on with saving the world and then dying. Having Rand die before he does his business at Shayol Ghul is like RJ's way of saying SO WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO NOW, PUNKS??
And of course, it also explains perfectly the title of the last book: A Memory of Light. I have believed this for some time, and this quote from Elaida in particular makes the point:TITLE - A Crown of Swords
PROLOGUE - Lightnings
Inside another week, two at most, al’Thor would be in the Tower, closely supervised and guided safely until Tarmon Gai’don, his ravaging of the world stopped. It was madness to allow any man who could channel to run free, but most of all the man prophecy said must face the Dark One in the Last Battle, the Light send that it lay years off yet in spite of the weather. Years would be needed to arrange the world properly, beginning with undoing what al’Thor had done.
Of course, the damage he had wrought was nothing beside what he could have caused, free. Not to mention the possibility that he might have gotten himself killed before he was needed. Well, that troublesome young man would be wrapped in swaddling and kept safe as an infant in his mother’s arms until time to take him to Shayol Ghul. After that, if he survived...
Elaida’s lips pursed. The Prophecies of the Dragon seemed to say he would not, which undeniably would be for the best.
PROLOGUE - Lightnings
Inside another week, two at most, al’Thor would be in the Tower, closely supervised and guided safely until Tarmon Gai’don, his ravaging of the world stopped. It was madness to allow any man who could channel to run free, but most of all the man prophecy said must face the Dark One in the Last Battle, the Light send that it lay years off yet in spite of the weather. Years would be needed to arrange the world properly, beginning with undoing what al’Thor had done.
Of course, the damage he had wrought was nothing beside what he could have caused, free. Not to mention the possibility that he might have gotten himself killed before he was needed. Well, that troublesome young man would be wrapped in swaddling and kept safe as an infant in his mother’s arms until time to take him to Shayol Ghul. After that, if he survived...
Elaida’s lips pursed. The Prophecies of the Dragon seemed to say he would not, which undeniably would be for the best.
Even Tuon reinforced this in The Gathering Storm, saying she could not ally with 'this creature', would not. She gave up all chance of doing so when she declared herself Empress.
My best guess at this point on 'to hold their hearts' is that Justice will somehow be a symbol, to give the people something to believe in after Rand is dead.
Anyway ... I'm just nitpicking details, here. I like the theory a lot, in general. To me, how it links to Arthurian legend is the most solid "evidence", and you did a good job tying the whole theory into the various prophecies/viewings/foretellings we know about.
Thanks again, Bob. I'm not going to argue back and forth forever on the nitpicking (I really hate that), but I hope I was able to answer some of your questions.