and Demandred fought the Shadow for half the war... what's the point? - Edit 1
Before modification by Sidious at 01/05/2010 09:21:12 PM
Everything anybody does has a reason, and by your reckoning that apparently means there is no one good in existence, making the entire point of the comparative meaningless.
By Cannoli's argument, you could take anyone and suggest that they weren't good. Lews Therin and Demandred probably did the same things every day, and just because Demandred became one of the Forsaken, it was for ego and pride, and Lews Therin was a true altruist. It's a nonsensical argument.
It is entirely possible that they were reversed, and that Demandred was a benevolent and altruistic individual while Lew Therin was ambitious and power-hungry, but his subsequent behavior and self-serving agenda argue the opposite, as do Lews Therin's actions suggest otherwise about HIS character. Certainly he would have been welcomed with open arms had he attempted to leave the sinking ship that was the cause of the Light, and yet he forewent those opportunities. The Forsaken recall that "there had been attempts to turn" him to the Shadow so it is not as if he was insensible of his opportunity, etiher. While it does not prove anything about their earlier character, their subsequent behavior of which we do have knowledge argues for the worse interpretation for Demandred and the better of Lews Therin. Being a politician is not by any stretch of the imagination an inherently good thing. We only think well of LTT because of his demonstrated heroism. Given the self-serving aspects of a political profession and the obvious rewards and gratifications, and Demandred's evident desire for ever more of those rewards and gratifications, the possibility that he was a good and virtuous individual cannot be taken seriously. There is no evidence of any such character in his history, and offering the existence his political career as evidence for any goodness on his part is a ludicrous ploy leaving you no room to talk about nonsensical arguments.
Except that I'm not using his history as a politician as evidence of goodness. I'm using the evidence that he was undoubtedly the second greatest man to come out of a Utopia. If LTT had never been born, Demandred would have been the leader against the Shadow, and we'd never have heard of the evil of Demandred. It's not useless hypothesizing - it's a flaw which was exploited in Barid Bel Medar and caused him to turn to the Shadow.
He's not unique. There is no evidence that Mesaana was anything but good at her job and aspiring as a citizen of the 2nd Age. Same with Asmodean, Sammael and Be'lal.
I agree with you that most of the Forsaken were evil long before the War of the Shadow, but you stated that all of the Forsaken had no evidence of any good nature prior to the War of Power. It's an unfair statement considering we've had no insight into their lives, so there is no proof. Therefore the fact that some of them seemed to be normal aspiring citizens who weren't murderers or criminals blows that theory out of the water.
You make it sound obvious but it isn't. It's like saying that the people of the 3rd Age who part of the Light are all good e.g. Nynaeve, Mat etc... and you focus on their good points. And then you say that the darkfriends are all evil and focus on their bad points. As if Nynaeve has never shown moral ambiguity, and Ingtar or Sheriam were psychotic killers their whole lives and never did any good.